Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44205
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Really?
According to the Jewish sacred writings, WHICH BECAME THE HEBREW BIBLE, Jews are descended from the ancient people of Israel who settled in the land of Canaan, located between the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River (1451 BCE). The Children of Israel shared a lineage through their common ancestors, Abraham, his son Isaac, and Isaac's son Jacob, Hebrews whose nomadic travels centered around Hebron somewhere between 1991 and 1706 BCE, apparently leading to the establishment of the Cave of the Patriarchs as their burial site in Hebron. The Children of Israel consisted of twelve tribes, each descended from one of Jacob's twelve sons, Reuven, Shimon, Levi, Yehuda, Yissachar, Zevulun, Dan, Gad, Naftali, Asher, Yosef, and Benyamin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history#A...
<quoted text>
You can call yourself of Jewish descent if you claim to have Jewish blood. I have no problem with that.
Is that what you call yourslf? And why?
I don't know the name of your particular religious cult. Is that a secret? I've asked before.
Some sort of quasi-Christian splinter group I would think. Probably not important enough to be dangerous.
For you to say that being Jewish has never been associated with Judaism is patently absurd.
One of the oldest ethnoreligius groups in the world. Probably the oldest.
HughBe--- This "ethnoreligious" is BS. The Israelites existed for HUNDREDS of years BEFORE they got "Judaism"...

Former--Really?

HughBe--- Really!!! Your own quote supports it. Note the emphasis on LINEAGE or BIOLOGY. Note LINEAGE has to do with RACE. It does not speak to BEHAVIOUR or beliefs. "The Children of Israel shared a LINEAGE(RACE) through their common ancestors, Abraham, his son Isaac, and Isaac's son Jacob, Hebrews whose nomadic travels centered around Hebron somewhere between 1991 and 1706 BCE,.."



Former---You can call yourself of Jewish descent if you claim to have Jewish blood. I have no problem with that.

hughBe-- I make no claim, I declare the FACTS. There is no need to claim the reality.

Former--Is that what you call yourslf? And why?

HughBe-- I am of mixed heritage. I don't call myself Jewish and I have NEVER done so but I was NEVER ashamed of my Jewish blood.

Former--I don't know the name of your particular religious cult. Is that a secret? I've asked before.

HughBe--- look in your drawers for cult. My religion is not a secret and is found in the scriptures.

Former--For you to say that being Jewish has never been associated with Judaism is patently absurd.

HughBe--- Do you what is absurd and laughable? Is it the fact that I have explained it so many times and it keeps going over your head. Tell me who was the first Jew and then tell me if he had Judaism. Tell me about the Judaism of the Israel of the exodus meaning while they were in Egypt.

Please THINK it is starting to hurt me in my ....

Former--One of the oldest ethnoreligius groups in the world. Probably the oldest.

HughBe--- Tell me the religion of the 10 tribes who went into CAPITIVITY. Open your mind and close your mouth then you shall learn.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#44206
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks like it was 12 tribes.
Makes one wonder what else you're wrong about.
rabbee: well i would say, there were a lot more than twelve, becase of Efreeeem, Manassah, along with the rest of the multitude of other tribes, that left egypt including egyptians.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44207
Nov 28, 2012
 
The largest Abrahamic religions are, in order, Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Other Abrahamic religions include Druze and Baha'i Faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religi...

__________

So Huggy, you may rightfully claim you follow an Abrahamic relgion, but not Judaism.

Don't be upset.

Just be happy to live and learn.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44208
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks like it was 12 tribes.
Makes one wonder what else you're wrong about.
HughBe--Have you every heard of the 10 tribes of Israel? If yes ask those MORONS who you have quoted what was there RELIGION?

Former--Looks like it was 12 tribes.

HughBe--- Only in your head. I am speaking about the 10 Northern tribes who were PERPETUALLY in IDOLATRY. In other words they did not follow "Judaism" .

Former--Makes one wonder what else you're wrong about

HughBe--- No need to wonder, I'm wrong in assuming that you know basic things about the subject matter.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44209
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
The largest Abrahamic religions are, in order, Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Other Abrahamic religions include Druze and Baha'i Faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religi...
__________
So Huggy, you may rightfully claim you follow an Abrahamic relgion, but not Judaism.
Don't be upset.
Just be happy to live and learn.
I could NEVER follow Judaism, it is man-made. I follow the inspired words of the scriptures.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44210
Nov 28, 2012
 
p2003

HughBe---if the truth be told the fabricated doctrines of the rabbis are esteeemed ABOVE the scriptures.

"The Talmud OUTSTRIPS even the Bible in influence and importance. Explicating and building upon the Torah's laws, stories, and ideas, the Talmud also lay the groundwork for new religious sensibilities that stressed scholarship and were attuned to the needs of the Jews in the Diaspora."

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Rabbini ...

----------

Proof---Raba made the following exposition: What is the purport of the Scriptural text: And, furthermore my son, be admonished: Of making many books etc.? My son, be MORE careful in [the observance of] the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah, for in the laws of the Torah there are positive and negative precepts; but, as to the laws of the Scribes, whoever transgresses any of the enactments of the Scribes incurs the penalty of death. In case you should object: If they are of real value why were they not recorded [in the Torah]? Scripture stated:‘Of making many books there is no end’

http://jewishroots.net/library/anti_missionar ...
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44211
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44212
Nov 28, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Your own quote supports it. Note the emphasis on LINEAGE or BIOLOGY. Note LINEAGE has to do with RACE. It does not speak to BEHAVIOUR or beliefs.
How far back do we need to go to convince you?

The ancient roots of Judaism lie in the Bronze Age polytheistic Ancient Semitic religions, specifically Canaanite religion, a syncretization with elements of Zoroastrianism and of the worship of Yahweh reflected in the early prophetic books of the Hebrew Bible. During the Babylonian captivity of the 6th and 5th centuries BCE, certain circles within the exiled Judahites in Babylon redefined pre-existing ideas about monotheism, election, divine law and Covenant into a theology which came to dominate the former Judah in the following centuries.

From the 5th century BCE until 70 CE, Israelite religion developed into the various theological schools of Second Temple Judaism, besides Hellenistic Judaism in the diaspora. The text of the Hebrew Bible was redacted into its extant form in this period and possibly also canonized as well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Judai...
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe-- I am of mixed heritage. I don't call myself Jewish and I have NEVER done so but I was NEVER ashamed of my Jewish blood.
Ok, part Jewish. Do you talk with you hands?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- look in your drawers for cult. My religion is not a secret and is found in the scriptures.
My dresser drawers??

Will you again refuse to name your religion?

Are you ashamed?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Do you what is absurd and laughable? Is it the fact that I have explained it so many times and it keeps going over your head. Tell me who was the first Jew and then tell me if he had Judaism. Tell me about the Judaism of the Israel of the exodus meaning while they were in Egypt.
Who was the first Jew?

I don't know who was the first Christian either?

Or the first gay Jamaican?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Tell me the religion of the 10 tribes who went into CAPITIVITY. Open your mind and close your mouth then you shall learn.
Somebody had to start things off.

Do you not credit the early pioneers of world relgions.

You would deny them their accomplishments.

Just what is your point anyway?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44213
Nov 28, 2012
 
Former, hurry-up and post I need to bruise you before I go.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44214
Nov 28, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--Have you every heard of the 10 tribes of Israel? If yes ask those MORONS who you have quoted what was there RELIGION?
Former--Looks like it was 12 tribes.
HughBe--- Only in your head. I am speaking about the 10 Northern tribes who were PERPETUALLY in IDOLATRY. In other words they did not follow "Judaism" .
Former--Makes one wonder what else you're wrong about
HughBe--- No need to wonder, I'm wrong in assuming that you know basic things about the subject matter.
Oh!

You mean the "10 LOST Tribes of Israel!"

You should have said so.

Now, what was your question again?

Frijoles would know much more about all this than me.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44215
Nov 28, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are an American, I am one too. I am also an Israelite. Both by intent.
If he is not then you are NOT an American. You should let the US government know about your status.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44216
Nov 28, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
I could NEVER follow Judaism, it is man-made. I follow the inspired words of the scriptures.
Evey religion is man-made, you moron.

Who do you think wrote the scriptures? God? You slay me!

You think just because they are old, or "written in stone" - that makes them written by God?

You are to funny for words.

Voltaire:
If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated.

Huggy, if you don't practice Judaism and you don't claim to be Jewish, then just what is your issue?

Why do you deny Jews their religion?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44217
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
How far back do we need to go to convince you?
The ancient roots of Judaism lie in the Bronze Age polytheistic Ancient Semitic religions, specifically Canaanite religion, a syncretization with elements of Zoroastrianism and of the worship of Yahweh reflected in the early prophetic books of the Hebrew Bible. During the Babylonian captivity of the 6th and 5th centuries BCE, certain circles within the exiled Judahites in Babylon redefined pre-existing ideas about monotheism, election, divine law and Covenant into a theology which came to dominate the former Judah in the following centuries.
From the 5th century BCE until 70 CE, Israelite religion developed into the various theological schools of Second Temple Judaism, besides Hellenistic Judaism in the diaspora. The text of the Hebrew Bible was redacted into its extant form in this period and possibly also canonized as well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Judai...
<quoted text>
Ok, part Jewish. Do you talk with you hands?
<quoted text>
My dresser drawers??
Will you again refuse to name your religion?
Are you ashamed?
<quoted text>
Who was the first Jew?
I don't know who was the first Christian either?
Or the first gay Jamaican?
<quoted text>
Somebody had to start things off.
Do you not credit the early pioneers of world relgions.
You would deny them their accomplishments.
Just what is your point anyway?
Former---Just what is your point anyway?

HughBe--- you talk too much BS. For example, "The ancient ROOTS of Judaism lie in the Bronze Age polytheistic Ancient Semitic RELIGIONS, specifically CANAANITE religion, a syncretization with elements of Zoroastrianism and of the worship of Yahweh reflected in the early prophetic books of the Hebrew Bible"

Based on scripture God gave Moses and Israel His Laws etc. Israel was to be a peculiar people a holy nation etc. and this would not have become a reality by LEARNING the ways of the non-Jewish goyim.

Do you know what the word PECULIAR means?

Later and take care.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44218
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Evey religion is man-made, you moron.
Who do you think wrote the scriptures? God? You slay me!
You think just because they are old, or "written in stone" - that makes them written by God?
You are to funny for words.
Voltaire:
If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated.
Huggy, if you don't practice Judaism and you don't claim to be
Jewish, then just what is your issue?
Why do you deny Jews their religion?
Former--Who do you think wrote the scriptures? God? You slay me!

HughBe--My dear, the scribe is not necessarily the Author. Do you understand?

Take care.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44219
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh!
You mean the "10 LOST Tribes of Israel!"
You should have said so.
Now, what was your question again?
Frijoles would know much more about all this than me.
Lack of knowledge of the subject matter is your challenge because my previous posts and context made it clear to those who know.
Eric

Addison, IL

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#44220
Nov 28, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
If he is not then you are NOT an American. You should let the US government know about your status.
Why are you so ashamed that you are an American? You live in Jamaica; which is part of the Greater Antilles; which is part of North America. By definition (Merriam Webster, op cit) you are an American.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44221
Nov 28, 2012
 

Judged:

1

HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Lack of knowledge of the subject matter is your challenge because my previous posts and context made it clear to those who know.
I agree with that.

The only problem is that the population size of potential adherents that appear "to know" this appears to be ONE.

(and it ain't me)
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44222
Nov 28, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you so ashamed that you are an American? You live in Jamaica; which is part of the Greater Antilles; which is part of North America. By definition (Merriam Webster, op cit) you are an American.
Do you think Mark Twain is on the required reading list of Jamaican 8th or 9th grades?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44223
Nov 28, 2012
 
former res wrote:
The largest Abrahamic religions are, in order, Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Other Abrahamic religions include Druze and Baha'i Faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religi...
__________
So Huggy, you may rightfully claim you follow an Abrahamic relgion, but not Judaism.
Don't be upset.
Just be happy to live and learn.
Complicating all of this of course is that Hughbe is indirectly asking the wrong question. The question isnt really who is the first Jew, but when did the Jewish people start.

Hughbe, as a Christian, sees everything is the individualistic perspective.

Jews, on the other hand, traditionally speaking, are an expression of a collective tribal identity. Sure, Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people (I.E. individuals are "Jewish". But for the religion to be truely practiced, it has to be practiced in a social, collective environment.

So regardless of the obvious flaws in his internal logic, the fact is that he isnt even using the correct paradigm to frame his criticism.

But none of that is really news. Missionary Christians have been trying to understand and remake Jews according to their own images for millenium.

He really needs to learn how to drum. Enervate his inner tribal.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44225
Nov 28, 2012
 

Judged:

1

HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Just what is your point anyway?
HughBe--- you talk too much BS. For example, "The ancient ROOTS of Judaism lie in the Bronze Age polytheistic Ancient Semitic RELIGIONS, specifically CANAANITE religion, a syncretization with elements of Zoroastrianism and of the worship of Yahweh reflected in the early prophetic books of the Hebrew Bible"
Based on scripture God gave Moses and Israel His Laws etc. Israel was to be a peculiar people a holy nation etc. and this would not have become a reality by LEARNING the ways of the non-Jewish goyim.
Do you know what the word PECULIAR means?
Later and take care.
I'm sorry - I didn't catch the name of your religion?

Whatever it is, it seems to one the many wrong religions.

I rest my case. You are an idiot.

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