Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[Laura]

IamJoseph wrote:

Israel is being attacked from every possible angle - and this is an evil scenario, embellished with a false saving grace. There should be one small place on the planet where jews can be free to pursue their own beliefs, and this must be respected by insecure christians and muslims, who have a problem respecting Jews as Jews, and Israel as Israel.
Pushing Jews into the sea, in the name of the NT or Quran, is the same as any other form of genicide. Have the jews not paid a great price to remain Jews? The truth is, America was founded by Jews [Columbus and all his mapsters were Jews], as a refuge for many - but also to save Christianity - from Europe. This is what Jews escaped from:
'BETTER TO DESTROY THEIR BODIES AND SAVE THEIR SOULS'- Isabela of Spain.
Thanks but no thanks. Please stop saving Jews.

But you didn't address the concern. It was that there is persecution of Jewish believers in Yeshua - quite a large number if you consider all the Messianic congregations in Israel and all over the world.

[HughBe]

Laura wrote:

<quoted text>
But you didn't address the concern. It was that there is persecution of Jewish believers in Yeshua - quite a large number if you consider all the Messianic congregations in Israel and all over the world.

How can Jews be persecuted because they believe in another Jew, Jesus?

The religious ones of Judaism certainly believe in the teachings of their rabbis and if the truth be told the fabricated doctrines of the rabbis are esteeemed ABOVE the scriptures.

So then it appears to be a question of JEALOUSY of another Jew,Jesus,on the part of the rabbis.

[HughBe]

Oh, they/rabbis want ALL of the attention and that much is clear.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Hairy Samoan Lineman wrote:

This moving driveway you speak off is irrelevant because you cant drive. Time to hang your keys up next to your skidmarked underware. There a new sherif in town and he said stop driving like maniacs who cant understand the complexity of a steering wheel.

rabbee: nah! i am going to be driving, this whole world. with all of you, in the back seat pretending to drive. because G-D is not going to trust, any of you with the keys. and i'll always be, a better driver than you. despite your better than thou back seat driving wishfull thinking.

i also know, it is better to steer around a dangerous situation. that it is to try and stop, fourty feet beyond trying to go through it. slamming on the brakes too late, is usually not the best option. when think fast, is.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

HughBe wrote:

Oh, they/rabbis want ALL of the attention and that much is clear.

rabbee: nah! according to G-D, i have spent way too much time. trying to not get, any at all. with about 57 words in TheTorah, isn't exactly an attention getter. funny it seems as if i, have already said more than that. this world must be, doing a lousy job, of raising their grandparents again.

[Voluntarist]

The United Nations Population Fund
(UNFPA) drew international headlines this
past week for claiming a new human right
to contraception.
Contraception as a human right is a
centerpiece of UNFPA’s annual state of
world population report “By Choice, Not By
Chance: Family Planning, Human Rights,
and Development”. Borrowing from the
language of natural law, the executive
summary declares that “today, family
planning is almost universally recognized as
an intrinsic right, affirmed and upheld by
many other human rights.”
Human rights experts point out that human
rights do not come about by the assertions
of UN agencies and that no such agreement
exists among Member States.
The report frequently refers to the
discredited idea of “unmet need” for
contraception. Critics consider “unmet
need”“advocacy construct” and say it does
not represent actual demand. A video
documenting UNFPA’s efforts to bring
contraception to Uganda, shows how hard
advocates must sell what is supposedly a
“need”. In the video health logistics
consultant Moses Muwonge claims “the
unmet need for contraceptives is 41% in
Uganda,” but then he points out they have
to use the mass media to sell their use.

[Frijoles]

With all due respect sir, you yourself might be the best argument for contraception, without even needing the UN....

[HughBe]

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:

<quoted text>
rabbee: nah! according to G-D, i have spent way too much time. trying to not get, any at all. with about 57 words in TheTorah, isn't exactly an attention getter. funny it seems as if i, have already said more than that. this world must be, doing a lousy job, of raising their grandparents again.

HughBe wrote:Oh, they/rabbis want ALL of the attention and that much is clear.

rabbee: nah! according to G-D, i have spent way too much time. trying to NOT get, any at all.

HughBe-- interesting

[Eric]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
Frijoles--Do you still have native-Americans on your island? Or did you kill them all and/or convert them to paganism?
HughBe--- Yes I killed ALL of the "native-Americans" who were born in Jamaica.
Beyond my exploits tell me about the experience.

That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?

btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.

Definition of AMERICAN

1: an American Indian of North America or South America

2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America

The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America.

[HughBe]

HughBe---if the truth be told the fabricated doctrines of the rabbis are esteeemed ABOVE the scriptures.

Proof---Raba made the following exposition: What is the purport of the Scriptural text: And, furthermore my son, be admonished: Of making many books etc.? My son, be MORE careful in [the observance of] the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah, for in the laws of the Torah there are positive and negative precepts; but, as to the laws of the Scribes, whoever transgresses any of the enactments of the Scribes incurs the penalty of death. In case you should object: If they are of real value why were they not recorded [in the Torah]? Scripture stated:‘Of making many books there is no end’

http://jewishroots.net/library/anti_missionar...

[HughBe]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America.

Eric---That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?

HughBe--- They decided to go to the afterlife because of the good treatment they were getting.

Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America

HughBe--- very good but Native-Americans are those born in America and NOT Jamaica. Recall his question "Do you still have native-Americans on your island?"

[Clayton Winton]

The history of religion's evolution has shown, more often than not, a group that attacks it's own, blaming another, for attention, for sympathy, for money, for profit.

Law Enforcerment is not stupid. Each sect has it's own "radical elements."

Second on the "suspect list" are those who hate Israel, wish to divide it into ever-increasing numbers of squabbling tribes.

Interpretation of 'scripture' is root; as religion means different things to different people at different times within their lives and environments.

Puns and homonyms are difficult to translate, which ruins rich metaphors. Language evolves, too, meanings of words evolve.

Check this emendation of the Kethuvim, C2-3.1:

-- " ...Then Obama began to build the House of Paper in opposing whims on Mount Deficit, where baal-systems appeared to his mother, at the place which she designated, at the threshing floor of HigherEd's Slavers. He began to build on the 2nd day of the 2nd month of the 4th year of his reign. These are the dimensions Obama established for building the House of Paper, it's length in 'cubits' by the former measuer, was 60 generations, and it's breadth was 20 Trillion 'talents.'"

Should I be killed for it?

Kind Regards, always,
Clayton Winton

[HughBe]

"The Talmud OUTSTRIPS even the Bible in influence and importance. Explicating and building upon the Torah's laws, stories, and ideas, the Talmud also lay the groundwork for new religious sensibilities that stressed scholarship and were attuned to the needs of the Jews in the Diaspora."

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Rabbini...

[Clayton Winton]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
Eric---That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
HughBe--- They decided to go to the afterlife because of the good treatment they were getting.
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America
HughBe--- very good but Native-Americans are those born in America and NOT Jamaica. Recall his question "Do you still have native-Americans on your island?"

Mexicans are Native Americans too. America is not a country. It's a continant. There are/were Native Americans from the North Pole to the South Pole and everywhere in-between. Yes, it's a "melting pot," myself a 'mutt', a 'mix' of many different peoples, Scandanavian, Native American, French, English, Jewish/Hebrew, and probably a 'part' of me is 'african' too ...:)

[Frijoles]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
Eric---That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
HughBe--- They decided to go to the afterlife because of the good treatment they were getting.
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America
HughBe--- very good but Native-Americans are those born in America and NOT Jamaica. Recall his question "Do you still have native-Americans on your island?"

Indigenous tribal folk from Jamaica are/were in fact native-Americans.

[HughBe]

Clayton Winton wrote:

<quoted text>
Mexicans are Native Americans too. America is not a country. It's a continant. There are/were Native Americans from the North Pole to the South Pole and everywhere in-between. Yes, it's a "melting pot," myself a 'mutt', a 'mix' of many different peoples, Scandanavian, Native American, French, English, Jewish/Hebrew, and probably a 'part' of me is 'african' too ...:)

As I understand it part of America i.e. Texas was annexed from Mexico so it is not surprising to find some Native Americans in Mexico BUT you will not find them here in Jamaica.

[HughBe]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Indigenous tribal folk from Jamaica are/were in fact native-Americans.

Let me put it this way. In America you have the majority/whites who are of European ancestry.Now are they Europeans or Americans?

[Frijoles]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
Let me put it this way. In America you have the majority/whites who are of European ancestry.Now are they Europeans or Americans?

Fine - I will let you ignore what is conventionally accepted as the meaning of the label native-American. We will now call them the more objectively anthropological term of "indigenous" tribalfolk of Jamaica.

Now what happened to them?

[Frijoles]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawak_people
The virgin soil epidemic caused by the arrival of smallpox and other diseases from Europe, combined with Spain's harsh policies of enslavement, resettlement, and the separation of families, the encomienda system, resulted in Taino society's drastic decline within a few decades after contact.[12] Attacks by Carib tribes and unrelenting harsh treatment by the Europeans accelerated the process. Although Taino society was destroyed by European expansion, some of their bloodlines persist among the new settlers, primarily Western and African peoples.

Early population estimates of Hispaniola, probably the most populous island inhabited by Taínos, range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 people. The maximum estimates for Jamaica and Puerto Rico are 600,000 people.[27] The Spanish priest Bartolomé de Las Casas (who was living in the Dominican Republic at the time) wrote in his 1561 multivolume History of the Indies:[28]

There were 60,000 people living on this island [when I arrived in 1508], including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over three million people had perished from war, slavery and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this?
Researchers today doubt Las Casas's figures for the pre-contact levels of the Taíno population, considering them an exaggeration. For example, Anderson Córdova estimates a maximum of 500,000 people inhabiting the island.[29] The Taíno population estimates range all over, from a few hundred thousand up to 8,000,000.[30] They had no resistance to Old World diseases, notably smallpox.[31] The encomienda system brought many Taínos to work in the fields and mines in exchange for Spanish protection,[32] education, and a seasonal salary.[33] Under the pretense of searching for gold and other materials,[34] many Spaniards took advantage of the regions now under control of the anaborios and Spanish encomienderos to exploit the native population by stealing their land and wealth. It would take some time before the Taínos were to revolt against their oppressors—both Indian and Spanish alike—and many military campaigns to finally induce Emperor Charles V to eradicate the encomienda system as a form of slavery.[35][36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno_peopl...
In thirty years, between 80% and 90% of the population died.[37] Because of the increased number of people (Spanish) on the island, there was a higher demand for food from the Taíno method of plantation which was being converted to Spanish methods. In hopes of gaining a pyrrhic victory over the Spanish, some Taínos refused to plant or even harvest their crops and in doing so, the supply of food became so low in 1495 and 1496 that some 50,000 died from the severity of the famine.[38] Despite this massive decline in population, it is safe to say that there simply wasn't enough of a Spanish military presence to be attributed to the large reduction of native manpower.[39][40] By 1507 their numbers had shrunk to 60,000. Scholars now believe that, among the various contributing factors, such as purposeful destruction of the people by the colonists and enslavement, newly imported epidemic disease (smallpox, influenza, measles, and typhus) was the overwhelming cause of the population decline of the indigenous people.[41

[Frijoles]

http://jamaica-guide.info/past.and.present/cu...

Religion

Though Columbus was unaware of it, the Taínos had their own distinct religion. At first believing the Spanish were gods, the Taínos treated them with great respect. The late discovery of the Taíno's religious practices means that much of the information came from tribes located on Hispaniola. However these practices are considered typical of Taínos throughout the region.

Their mythology included many gods and a human creation myth, which stated that humans came from two caves. According to the story, one day the guardian forgot to close these caves and the humans escaped, as did the sun. This guardian was turned into stone. Their religion also forbade men to look into the sun and claimed that those who did would be transformed into animals and trees.

The supreme god, called Yocahuna in Jamaica, and goddess of the Taínos were only two of the spirits worshiped by the people of the islands. Other spirits were called zemes. This word could mean both the spirits themselves and the carved images of them. Bones and skulls of the dead, spirits of the dead, and anything believed to have magic powers were also called zemes. Few of these carvings survive, since they were made of wood.

Taíno priests encouraged the people to believe that some such zemes could speak. The Spanish found a speaking tube inside a zeme in a cacique's hut, and the cacique is said to have asked them not to tell his people of his deception.

The zemes were often celebrated in public festivals in which the Taínos dressed in their finest. Men pained themselves in red, yellow, and black and wore feather cloaks and headdresses. Everyone wore shell ornaments. The Taíno made offerings to the zeme for protection against fire and hurricanes, as well.

Priests were also healers, and zemes were said to be the cause of many illnesses. While priests knew herb lore and could provide cures, some cures were more magic than medicine. The Taínos believed in coyaba, a heaven in which there were no droughts, hurricanes, or sickness; those who lived in coyaba spent their time feasting and dancing.

These customs, foods, and activities were intrinsic to Jamaica before the Spanish arrived, and have influenced the way of life on the island since those early times