Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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Clayton Winton

Spokane, WA

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#43972
Nov 25, 2012
 
The history of religion's evolution has shown, more often than not, a group that attacks it's own, blaming another, for attention, for sympathy, for money, for profit.

Law Enforcerment is not stupid. Each sect has it's own "radical elements."

Second on the "suspect list" are those who hate Israel, wish to divide it into ever-increasing numbers of squabbling tribes.

Interpretation of 'scripture' is root; as religion means different things to different people at different times within their lives and environments.

Puns and homonyms are difficult to translate, which ruins rich metaphors. Language evolves, too, meanings of words evolve.

Check this emendation of the Kethuvim, C2-3.1:

-- " ...Then Obama began to build the House of Paper in opposing whims on Mount Deficit, where baal-systems appeared to his mother, at the place which she designated, at the threshing floor of HigherEd's Slavers. He began to build on the 2nd day of the 2nd month of the 4th year of his reign. These are the dimensions Obama established for building the House of Paper, it's length in 'cubits' by the former measuer, was 60 generations, and it's breadth was 20 Trillion 'talents.'"

Should I be killed for it?

Kind Regards, always,
Clayton Winton
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43973
Nov 25, 2012
 
"The Talmud OUTSTRIPS even the Bible in influence and importance. Explicating and building upon the Torah's laws, stories, and ideas, the Talmud also lay the groundwork for new religious sensibilities that stressed scholarship and were attuned to the needs of the Jews in the Diaspora."

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Rabbini...
Clayton Winton

Spokane, WA

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#43974
Nov 25, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric---That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
HughBe--- They decided to go to the afterlife because of the good treatment they were getting.
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America
HughBe--- very good but Native-Americans are those born in America and NOT Jamaica. Recall his question "Do you still have native-Americans on your island?"
Mexicans are Native Americans too. America is not a country. It's a continant. There are/were Native Americans from the North Pole to the South Pole and everywhere in-between. Yes, it's a "melting pot," myself a 'mutt', a 'mix' of many different peoples, Scandanavian, Native American, French, English, Jewish/Hebrew, and probably a 'part' of me is 'african' too ...:)
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43975
Nov 25, 2012
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric---That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
HughBe--- They decided to go to the afterlife because of the good treatment they were getting.
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America
HughBe--- very good but Native-Americans are those born in America and NOT Jamaica. Recall his question "Do you still have native-Americans on your island?"
Indigenous tribal folk from Jamaica are/were in fact native-Americans.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43976
Nov 25, 2012
 
Clayton Winton wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexicans are Native Americans too. America is not a country. It's a continant. There are/were Native Americans from the North Pole to the South Pole and everywhere in-between. Yes, it's a "melting pot," myself a 'mutt', a 'mix' of many different peoples, Scandanavian, Native American, French, English, Jewish/Hebrew, and probably a 'part' of me is 'african' too ...:)
As I understand it part of America i.e. Texas was annexed from Mexico so it is not surprising to find some Native Americans in Mexico BUT you will not find them here in Jamaica.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43977
Nov 25, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Indigenous tribal folk from Jamaica are/were in fact native-Americans.
Let me put it this way. In America you have the majority/whites who are of European ancestry.Now are they Europeans or Americans?

Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43978
Nov 25, 2012
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me put it this way. In America you have the majority/whites who are of European ancestry.Now are they Europeans or Americans?
Fine - I will let you ignore what is conventionally accepted as the meaning of the label native-American. We will now call them the more objectively anthropological term of "indigenous" tribalfolk of Jamaica.

Now what happened to them?
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43979
Nov 25, 2012
 

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Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawak_people
The virgin soil epidemic caused by the arrival of smallpox and other diseases from Europe, combined with Spain's harsh policies of enslavement, resettlement, and the separation of families, the encomienda system, resulted in Taino society's drastic decline within a few decades after contact.[12] Attacks by Carib tribes and unrelenting harsh treatment by the Europeans accelerated the process. Although Taino society was destroyed by European expansion, some of their bloodlines persist among the new settlers, primarily Western and African peoples.

Early population estimates of Hispaniola, probably the most populous island inhabited by Taínos, range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 people. The maximum estimates for Jamaica and Puerto Rico are 600,000 people.[27] The Spanish priest Bartolomé de Las Casas (who was living in the Dominican Republic at the time) wrote in his 1561 multivolume History of the Indies:[28]

There were 60,000 people living on this island [when I arrived in 1508], including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over three million people had perished from war, slavery and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this?
Researchers today doubt Las Casas's figures for the pre-contact levels of the Taíno population, considering them an exaggeration. For example, Anderson Córdova estimates a maximum of 500,000 people inhabiting the island.[29] The Taíno population estimates range all over, from a few hundred thousand up to 8,000,000.[30] They had no resistance to Old World diseases, notably smallpox.[31] The encomienda system brought many Taínos to work in the fields and mines in exchange for Spanish protection,[32] education, and a seasonal salary.[33] Under the pretense of searching for gold and other materials,[34] many Spaniards took advantage of the regions now under control of the anaborios and Spanish encomienderos to exploit the native population by stealing their land and wealth. It would take some time before the Taínos were to revolt against their oppressors—both Indian and Spanish alike—and many military campaigns to finally induce Emperor Charles V to eradicate the encomienda system as a form of slavery.[35][36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno_peopl...
In thirty years, between 80% and 90% of the population died.[37] Because of the increased number of people (Spanish) on the island, there was a higher demand for food from the Taíno method of plantation which was being converted to Spanish methods. In hopes of gaining a pyrrhic victory over the Spanish, some Taínos refused to plant or even harvest their crops and in doing so, the supply of food became so low in 1495 and 1496 that some 50,000 died from the severity of the famine.[38] Despite this massive decline in population, it is safe to say that there simply wasn't enough of a Spanish military presence to be attributed to the large reduction of native manpower.[39][40] By 1507 their numbers had shrunk to 60,000. Scholars now believe that, among the various contributing factors, such as purposeful destruction of the people by the colonists and enslavement, newly imported epidemic disease (smallpox, influenza, measles, and typhus) was the overwhelming cause of the population decline of the indigenous people.[41
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43980
Nov 25, 2012
 

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http://jamaica-guide.info/past.and.present/cu...

Religion

Though Columbus was unaware of it, the Taínos had their own distinct religion. At first believing the Spanish were gods, the Taínos treated them with great respect. The late discovery of the Taíno's religious practices means that much of the information came from tribes located on Hispaniola. However these practices are considered typical of Taínos throughout the region.

Their mythology included many gods and a human creation myth, which stated that humans came from two caves. According to the story, one day the guardian forgot to close these caves and the humans escaped, as did the sun. This guardian was turned into stone. Their religion also forbade men to look into the sun and claimed that those who did would be transformed into animals and trees.

The supreme god, called Yocahuna in Jamaica, and goddess of the Taínos were only two of the spirits worshiped by the people of the islands. Other spirits were called zemes. This word could mean both the spirits themselves and the carved images of them. Bones and skulls of the dead, spirits of the dead, and anything believed to have magic powers were also called zemes. Few of these carvings survive, since they were made of wood.

Taíno priests encouraged the people to believe that some such zemes could speak. The Spanish found a speaking tube inside a zeme in a cacique's hut, and the cacique is said to have asked them not to tell his people of his deception.

The zemes were often celebrated in public festivals in which the Taínos dressed in their finest. Men pained themselves in red, yellow, and black and wore feather cloaks and headdresses. Everyone wore shell ornaments. The Taíno made offerings to the zeme for protection against fire and hurricanes, as well.

Priests were also healers, and zemes were said to be the cause of many illnesses. While priests knew herb lore and could provide cures, some cures were more magic than medicine. The Taínos believed in coyaba, a heaven in which there were no droughts, hurricanes, or sickness; those who lived in coyaba spent their time feasting and dancing.

These customs, foods, and activities were intrinsic to Jamaica before the Spanish arrived, and have influenced the way of life on the island since those early times
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43981
Nov 25, 2012
 

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Hughbe - you should be following the religion of your ancestors instead of the religion of your exploiters.
Eric

Addison, IL

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#43984
Nov 25, 2012
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric---That's a good question. Why did the Arawak and Taíno population leave Jamaica?
HughBe--- They decided to go to the afterlife because of the good treatment they were getting.
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America
HughBe--- very good but Native-Americans are those born in America and NOT Jamaica. Recall his question "Do you still have native-Americans on your island?"
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America

You are really dense. The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of America--which includes North and South America.

"a·mer·i·ca

"A landmass in the western hemisphere that consists of the continents of North and South America joined by the Isthmus of Panama"


Now can you be serious?
Voluntarist

United States

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#43985
Nov 25, 2012
 

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Frijoles wrote:
With all due respect sir, you yourself might be the best argument for contraception, without even needing the UN....
I'm quite sure that your daddy wished that he pulled out.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#43987
Nov 25, 2012
 

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Lecture 7. The message of the Holy Prophet of Islam part-49

Divisions into clans and Nations:

Before Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) the world was divided into different clans who hardly knew one another. In India, the holy men of Hinduism had confined their religion to their own sacred law. Their God was concerned with the welfare of their followers only. Its benefits were meant for the people of the land, particularly for certain families of a higher caste.

Zoroaster heard the message of God, but only for the people of the holy land of Persia. The Children of Israel believed that no prophet would ever come from outside their own tribes.

It is the Prophet of Islam who has brought the Divine Message for the whole mankind. His message is not limited to the East or the West. The Divine Guidance, sent down through him is not meant just for one country, or one nation or one language. In its sight, Palestine, Persia, India or Arabia have the same status. It was meant to enlighten all mankind. Therefore, its light has spread throughout the world. In the words of Allah there was no community without a warner having passed among them.(Chp.35:Vrs.24)

For every people there is a messenger.( Chp.10 :Vrs.47)

We had indeed sent before you messengers to their people.( Chp.30 :Vrs.47)

A Jew does not recognize any prophet of non-Jewish origin. It is not required of a Christian to believe in the Jewish prophets or prophets from other nations. This does not stop him from being a true Christian. Believers in Hinduism do not believe in any voice of God, coming from outside India. A follower of Zoroaster sees darkness everywhere except in Persia.

But it is Prophet Muhammad’s message which proclaims that all mankind belongs to Allah. He alone is their Creator. As His creation the whole human race is entitled to share His bounties.
The Light of His guidance was sent down for every place inhabited by human beings. Be it Persia or India, Greece or China, Arabia or Syria, His Prophets were sent to them and through their teachings they received Allah’s Commandments.

As a result of Islamic teachings every Muslim knows that he cannot become a true believer i.e. Muslim unless he believes in all the Prophets, all heavenly books, and all Divine revelation that came before Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). Those prophets who have been mentioned by name in the holy Quran, and those whose names have not been given by the holy Quran (whatever their names and their countries) are to be believed as true prophets of Allah.

Who are Muslims?

Look at the answers in the words of God
:
and who believe in what has been revealed to you and what has been revealed before you; (Chp.2:Vrs.4)

In the same Chapter of the holy Quran it is mentioned:

but righteousness is that one believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets,(Chp.2:Vrs.177)

Towards the end of the Surah, the Revelation says that Prophet Muhammad and his followers:

The Messenger has believed in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers as well. All have believed in Allah and His angels and His Books and His Messengers.“We make no division between any of His Messengers,”(Chp.2:Vrs.285)

That means they cannot say they believe in some prophets and do not believe in others All Muslims have the command:

O you who believe, do believe in Allah and His Messenger and in the Book He has revealed to His Messenger and in the Books He has revealed earlier....(Chp.4: Vrs. 136).

(Contd.)
Clayton Winton

Spokane, WA

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#43989
Nov 25, 2012
 
This thread has been hijacked. It's so far-out of Topic, I'm out. Kind regards.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43990
Nov 26, 2012
 

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Clayton Winton wrote:
This thread has been hijacked. It's so far-out of Topic, I'm out. Kind regards.
We will miss you.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43991
Nov 26, 2012
 

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Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric---btw, Hugh. American does not only refer to the U.S.
Definition of AMERICAN
1: an American Indian of North America or South America
2: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of North America
You are really dense. The last time I checked, the Greater Antilles were part of America--which includes North and South America.
"a·mer·i·ca
"A landmass in the western hemisphere that consists of the continents of North and South America joined by the Isthmus of Panama"
Now can you be serious?
I think you might be asking too much too soon of him. Perhaps you should start with introducing something more manageable like "reality" and then in time work yourself up to "America".
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#43992
Nov 26, 2012
 

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Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm quite sure that your daddy wished that he pulled out.
My father was never a UN member.
Voluntarist

United States

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#43994
Nov 26, 2012
 
Brzezinski wrote in his book Between Two
Ages: America’s Role in the Technotronic Era , in which he
advocated the control of populations by an elite political class
via technotronic manipulation.
“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a
more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated
by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be
possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every
citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing
even the most personal information about the citizen. These
files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the
authorities,” wrote Brzezinski.
“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be
towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions
of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic
and attractive personalities exploiting the latest
communications techniques to manipulate emotions and
control reason,” he wrote in the same book.
Voluntarist

United States

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#43995
Nov 26, 2012
 
Following is the interview in full detail:
Ummat: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in
New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this?
If you are not involved, who might be?
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11
September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try
my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these
attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women,
children, and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam
strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children,
and other people.
Such a practice is forbidden ever in the course of a battle. It is
the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on
women, children, and common people of other faiths, particularly
the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the
last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the
United States and Israel.
There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which
witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been
done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya, and Bosnia?
Voluntarist

United States

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#43996
Nov 26, 2012
 
Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the
friends of the American people. I have already said that we
are against the American system, not against its people,
whereas in these attacks, the common American people have
been killed.
According to my information, the death toll is much higher
than what the US government has stated. But the Bush
administration does not want the panic to spread. The United
States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks
within itself; the people who are a part of the US system, but
are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some
other system; persons who want to make the present century as
a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their
own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They
can be any one, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia.
In the US itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-
equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale
destruction. Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who are
annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida
and want to avenge him.
Then there are intelligence agencies in the US, which require
billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the
government every year. This funding issue was not a big problem
till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the
budget of these agencies has been in danger.
They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda
against Usamah and Taleban and then this incident
happened. You see, the Bush administration approved a
budget of 40bn dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It
will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds
and want to exert their importance.

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