Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[Voluntarist]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT
PREAMBLE.
The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government; do, in order more effectually to define, secure, and perpetuate the liberties, rights and privileges which they have derived from their ancestors; hereby, after a careful consideration and revision, ordain and establish the following constitution and form of civil government.

Non-responsive

I was not around when the constitution was drafted nor have I signed and agreed to it.

What facts do you have that it is applicable to me?

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't believe more people can't see what a fraud this guy is.
Wrong and inconsistent on so many counts.
.

Willful ignorance due to innate and carnal dislike of his opponent.

We see this even on this thread

If you want a sobering experience: Look at this article from the Israeli press - a somewhat objective opinion piece explaining to the Israelis why many or most American Jews are voting for Obama.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-429...

Then look at the comments. From some of the American Jews. Sobering. Yes, there are people out there like that, and sometimes they converge together to create their own reality. Ironic, considering the message of the article.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Non-responsive
I was not around when the constitution was drafted nor have I signed and agreed to it.
What facts do you have that it is applicable to me?

You talk big, but I bet you are the first to whine when you need a government service, or when you get arrested for civil disobedience.

I actually know people who try to live off the grid. Trust me, they dont live in Fairfield County, CT or anywhere within URL zone.

[Eric]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Non-responsive
I was not around when the constitution was drafted nor have I signed and agreed to it.
What facts do you have that it is applicable to me?

You don't have to sign and agree. Adopted by referendum of the people of CT. Amendments per document as adopted by referendum. Love it or Leave it. Or, at least acquiesce.

Are you trying to tell us that your interpretation of society and law requires each new born baby to sign off on each and every law before they are subject to it? That's chaos.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Eliezer wrote:

<quoted text>
Some messianic "Jews" may have been born to Jewish mothers, hence that would make them technically Jewish. But their hodge podge of Christianity with a slight seasoning of Judaism can hardly be called "Jewish", and certainly not a part of Judaism. They are practicing Christian evangelism, and trying to paint it as being Jewish.
We in Israel are NOT the US, nor should we be judged by US laws and values. We also aren't Saudi Arabia or some other backward Arab country. We ARE a Jewish State, founded as a homeland for the Jewish people. We should be allowed to determine for ourselves whether we want to be forced to allow evangelical Christians, proseletising Muslems, adamant Buddhists, or any other religion to attempt to convert our people. We tolerate and even support normative Christian and Muslim practice here, but trying to convert Jews to other religions in our homeland would be not far from kidnapping the Pope in Rome, and forcing him to pray 5 times a day to Allah.
That said, a bomb is NOT an acceptable tool in any form of religious debate, no matte who's side I'm on. The perpetrators should be prosecuted, and the penalty is stiff here (western style). But keep these christian fanatics claiming to be jews away, we don't need them.

rabbee: you do realize that the last time, G-D gave TheTorah. and all, the other times before that. adam's mate was always a grandaughter of Avraham and Sarah, don't you? that would make everyone on earth, what you call jewish. with this time being, no different than any other time, HaShem has given this exact same story of creation each time. so that all of you, are not the first to fail, to get the point here and now in TheTorah Happening.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

this is the third betrayal of all of you, and your grandmther of all as chaooah. so this is not the first time, you all and your grandmother have screwed this all up, actually here in TheTorah actually in TheHappening.

[Voluntarist]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
You talk big, but I bet you are the first to whine when you need a government service, or when you get arrested for civil disobedience.
I actually know people who try to live off the grid. Trust me, they dont live in Fairfield County, CT or anywhere within URL zone.

I don't need any government service, if there is some kind of monopoly on
services I am glad to pay for them.

But that doesn't escape the question of applicability of the constitution or laws.

[Voluntarist]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't have to sign and agree. Adopted by referendum of the people of CT. Amendments per document as adopted by referendum. Love it or Leave it. Or, at least acquiesce.
Are you trying to tell us that your interpretation of society and law requires each new born baby to sign off on each and every law before they are subject to it? That's chaos.

So what you are saying is that there are no facts that the law and constitution is applicable.

[Voluntarist]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't have to sign and agree. Adopted by referendum of the people of CT. Amendments per document as adopted by referendum. Love it or Leave it. Or, at least acquiesce.
Are you trying to tell us that your interpretation of society and law requires each new born baby to sign off on each and every law before they are subject to it? That's chaos.

Love it or leave what?

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't believe more people can't see what a fraud this guy is.
Wrong and inconsistent on so many counts.
From the time he declared, "I've been a hunter all my life" I knew he was full of it.
One of my Toyotas is built in the US - the other in Canada. Close enough.

Charles Blow on the subject of lying: http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/1...

"..I recognize that Obama hatred is a real thing, but disliking the president so much that you would do harm to yourself by voting for someone who you admit you don’t trust seems to be taking things to extremes.

All the voters who are aware of Romney’s fact-mangling but vote for him anyway must ask themselves this question: are they granting him the liberty to lie?.."

[Eric]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
So what you are saying is that there are no facts that the law and constitution is applicable.

I gave them to you. Fundamental law of nature says that people are to seek peace. When they are unable to do that on their own, that man must be willing to lay down the right to all things, and be content with so much liberty against other men, as he would allow other men against himself. The laying down of those rights is the formation of government. Read Hobbes sometime.

The people of the US said that they were lay down some of their rights to create a limited central government reserving to themselves all other power. The people of CT utilized those reserved rights to create a very unlimited form of government by a vote of the people. They reserved to themselves the authority to amend that government.

[Eric]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Love it or leave what?

CT

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't need any government service, if there is some kind of monopoly on
services I am glad to pay for them.
But that doesn't escape the question of applicability of the constitution or laws.

Whatever.

You engage in society. Dont be a hypocrite.

[former res]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Willful ignorance due to innate and carnal dislike of his opponent.
We see this even on this thread
If you want a sobering experience: Look at this article from the Israeli press - a somewhat objective opinion piece explaining to the Israelis why many or most American Jews are voting for Obama.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-429...
Then look at the comments. From some of the American Jews. Sobering. Yes, there are people out there like that, and sometimes they converge together to create their own reality. Ironic, considering the message of the article.

It's encouraging not to have folks being single-issue voters and seeing the big picture. Also not to get sucked in by the blatant pandering of the right.

[former res]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Charles Blow on the subject of lying: http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/1...
"..I recognize that Obama hatred is a real thing, but disliking the president so much that you would do harm to yourself by voting for someone who you admit you don’t trust seems to be taking things to extremes.
All the voters who are aware of Romney’s fact-mangling but vote for him anyway must ask themselves this question: are they granting him the liberty to lie?.."

I like this guy. He goes on the " mornin joe" show from time to time.

Glood point.

Unless you have only dividend/cap gain income, chances are - voting for Romney is a self-destructive act.

Why do people vote against their own interests? Hate for Obama, the "other one"?

Romney's own tax plan would lower his marginal tax rate from 13% to zero! Why was this never pointed out in a debate?

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
It's encouraging not to have folks being single-issue voters and seeing the big picture. Also not to get sucked in by the blatant pandering of the right.

My observation is that even though the majority of Jews are pro-Obama - the majority of commenters are strongly against him. If one was reading this from outside, say from Israel, wouldnt one get the logical impression that American Jews HATE HATE HATE Obama?

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I like this guy. He goes on the " mornin joe" show from time to time.
Glood point.
Unless you have only dividend/cap gain income, chances are - voting for Romney is a self-destructive act.
Why do people vote against their own interests? Hate for Obama, the "other one"?
Romney's own tax plan would lower his marginal tax rate from 13% to zero! Why was this never pointed out in a debate?

I saw a RangeROver this morning with a Romney sticker pulling into the UBS parking building this morning.

My first reaction was what a futz -

BUT then I realized that unlike most of the other supporters, there was no cognitive dissonance there.

"Rich person / investment banker proudly showing off wealth and voting for Romney..." As pure as it could be.

[Cult of Reason]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Whatever.
You engage in society. Dont be a hypocrite.

If he's ever driven or walked on a public road, he's relied on government services.

If he's ever used a bathroom tied to a municipal's waste treatment facility, he's relied on government services.

If he's ever taken a breath of fresh air or eaten food without getting sick, he's relied on government regulations that ensured the air he breaths or the food he eats is safe.

The Internet he uses to post huis drivel was invented by people working for the government (ARPA).

The electricity that allows him to run his computer is provided by government regulated utility companies.

etc, etc...

Yea, I would say he engages in society. If he were really to put his money where his mouth was, he would move to some isolated corner of Wyoming and live off the land.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
If he's ever driven or walked on a public road, he's relied on government services.
If he's ever used a bathroom tied to a municipal's waste treatment facility, he's relied on government services.
If he's ever taken a breath of fresh air or eaten food without getting sick, he's relied on government regulations that ensured the air he breaths or the food he eats is safe.
The Internet he uses to post huis drivel was invented by people working for the government (ARPA).
The electricity that allows him to run his computer is provided by government regulated utility companies.
etc, etc...
Yea, I would say he engages in society. If he were really to put his money where his mouth was, he would move to some isolated corner of Wyoming and live off the land.

rabbee: services of, the subtle beasts of the fields. robs you with one hand, and pretends to be helpfull with the other.

[Rtloder]

Eliezer wrote:

<quoted text>
Some messianic "Jews" may have been born to Jewish mothers, hence that would make them technically Jewish. But their hodge podge of Christianity with a slight seasoning of Judaism can hardly be called "Jewish", and certainly not a part of Judaism. They are practicing Christian evangelism, and trying to paint it as being Jewish.
We in Israel are NOT the US, nor should we be judged by US laws and values. We also aren't Saudi Arabia or some other backward Arab country. We ARE a Jewish State, founded as a homeland for the Jewish people. We should be allowed to determine for ourselves whether we want to be forced to allow evangelical Christians, proseletising Muslems, adamant Buddhists, or any other religion to attempt to convert our people. We tolerate and even support normative Christian and Muslim practice here, but trying to convert Jews to other religions in our homeland would be not far from kidnapping the Pope in Rome, and forcing him to pray 5 times a day to Allah.
That said, a bomb is NOT an acceptable tool in any form of religious debate, no matte who's side I'm on. The perpetrators should be prosecuted, and the penalty is stiff here (western style). But keep these christian fanatics claiming to be jews away, we don't need them.

This being a public forum, then it is precisely(this) that points out to you Saudi Arabia is a British invention exactly the same as Zionism, but that is all you have in common.
They are not founding their substance on liberal democracy, but Israel does has done and always will do .
Saudi does not appeal to (this) when was the last time you read someone presenting the reasoning behind,, say,, the veil on this forum.
(This) is where Israel came from over the part 62 years, Israel can say she is threatened, and such is justification for censorship, you are actually saying Israel needs to censure (this) that is the foreign office that gave Israel its existence.