Afghanistan/ Part II

[Shootist]

Obama has now turned down all three proposals offered on Afghanistan......He needs to fly to Asia now before he can make a decision?... No matter what decision he makes cannot be GUARANTEED to be the right one...Meanwhile, he just looks weak and indecisive in the eyes of the world and to most of the American people....
Who is he afraid of?......The "Left of this own party?....The Muslims in the Middle East?...Who?... Can this man make a decision?...
We all have decisions to make in life (nothing of course like his, with the position and responsibility he holds)but sitting on the fence, looking for the perfect scenario and outcome is just NAIVE...Their are people dying there, more and more everyday.....
I personally am fed up .......Pull our troops out NOW....Give Pakistan EVERY thing they can possibly need to fight the Taliban in THEIR country while we pack up and go home....Do what the liberals want... let Afghanistan go back to the Taliban and Al Quieda...See how that works again...

[Crash]

I agree let it crash and give this warnig to everyone there. We will NOT be back and if things get worse and attacks are made against us will will jsut use nukes and end the threat once and for all.

[Lesson Learned FL]

Shootist wrote:

Obama has now turned down all three proposals offered on Afghanistan......He needs to fly to Asia now before he can make a decision?... No matter what decision he makes cannot be GUARANTEED to be the right one...Meanwhile, he just looks weak and indecisive in the eyes of the world and to most of the American people....
Who is he afraid of?......The "Left of this own party?....The Muslims in the Middle East?...Who?... Can this man make a decision?...
We all have decisions to make in life (nothing of course like his, with the position and responsibility he holds)but sitting on the fence, looking for the perfect scenario and outcome is just NAIVE...Their are people dying there, more and more everyday.....
I personally am fed up .......Pull our troops out NOW....Give Pakistan EVERY thing they can possibly need to fight the Taliban in THEIR country while we pack up and go home....Do what the liberals want... let Afghanistan go back to the Taliban and Al Quieda...See how that works again...

I can't understand why the Afghanistan problem is being handled this way. You would think they could have made corrections to plans as they went along rather than wait weeks and then say no I don't like any of these, let's start over. I think I would be tempted to say well, why didn't you mention a month ago that you didn't like this or that aspect. Maybe that's not the exact scenario but it's what it looks like. Very strange I think.

[Billyoceanfan4li fe]

Again, this is far from a simple decision. There are constantly changing variables--whether it is corruption in the Afghanistan government or assessing the commitment of Pakistan.

As I have said all along, he needs to take his time. We are going into the 9th year and people still demand he make a decision immediately. People unfairly put political spin on this though.

http://rawstory.com/2009/11/powell-to-obama-t...

"In an interview Wednesday with columnist Roland S. Martin, Gen. Colin Powell said that on the issue of sending additional troops to Afghanistan he had advised President Obama to "take your time" and "not be rushed into a decision."

"This one is the decision that will have consequences for years to come," Powell said he'd told the president. "If you decide to send more troops ... make sure you have good understanding of what those troops are going to be doing and some assurance that the additional troops will be successful."

[Shootist]

Lesson Learned FL wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't understand why the Afghanistan problem is being handled this way. You would think they could have made corrections to plans as they went along rather than wait weeks and then say no I don't like any of these, let's start over. I think I would be tempted to say well, why didn't you mention a month ago that you didn't like this or that aspect. Maybe that's not the exact scenario but it's what it looks like. Very strange I think.

Exactly

[Concerned]

Billyoceanfan4life wrote:

Again, this is far from a simple decision. There are constantly changing variables--whether it is corruption in the Afghanistan government or assessing the commitment of Pakistan.
As I have said all along, he needs to take his time. We are going into the 9th year and people still demand he make a decision immediately. People unfairly put political spin on this though.
http://rawstory.com/2009/11/powell-to-obama-t...
"In an interview Wednesday with columnist Roland S. Martin, Gen. Colin Powell said that on the issue of sending additional troops to Afghanistan he had advised President Obama to "take your time" and "not be rushed into a decision."
"This one is the decision that will have consequences for years to come," Powell said he'd told the president. "If you decide to send more troops ... make sure you have good understanding of what those troops are going to be doing and some assurance that the additional troops will be successful."

That's because Powell tossed the troops under the bus.

[Shootist]

Billyoceanfan4life wrote:

Again, this is far from a simple decision. There are constantly changing variables--whether it is corruption in the Afghanistan government or assessing the commitment of Pakistan.
As I have said all along, he needs to take his time. We are going into the 9th year and people still demand he make a decision immediately. People unfairly put political spin on this though.
http://rawstory.com/2009/11/powell-to-obama-t...
"In an interview Wednesday with columnist Roland S. Martin, Gen. Colin Powell said that on the issue of sending additional troops to Afghanistan he had advised President Obama to "take your time" and "not be rushed into a decision."
"This one is the decision that will have consequences for years to come," Powell said he'd told the president. "If you decide to send more troops ... make sure you have good understanding of what those troops are going to be doing and some assurance that the additional troops will be successful."

IF you cannot make a decision after being in office for eleven months now on what should have been the no. One priority of the nation..(Not the olympics, nobel peace prize, health care or anything else) then you've got some kind of problem...(political,or otherwise)...I am firmly convinced that this administration is out to LOSE this war.. Everything points to it.. so LET'S pull the "H" out NOW and save our troops lives........We no longer consider ourselves with giving our word, honor, or anything else....So let's cut the BS, cut and run, and save some lives....The Taliban can do all of the killing they want when we leave...(Happened in Vietnam, and it will happen there) but of course we can just ignore it, maybe it will go away...

[Shootist]

P.S.--That is what WAR is...It always constantly changes..No guarantees or crystal balls will change that.

[Silly]

Part of the problem is the Afghan government took great offense at the UN saying they are corrupt.( that itself is funny coming from the corrupt UN.) Also the Afghan government is fighting us and saying the do not want more American troops on the ground in their country.

Makes it hard to help when they refuse to let you help. This government may not be the taliban but they do want absolute control and have it their way an no one elses. One evil gone just to have another take it's place is what we are facing.

Obama is confusing to me. He became the president but is still in campaign mode. Talks about the changes we need but does not offer ideas on how to change and does not lead in making changes.

Still scratching my head with what he wants to do and wondering if he actually wants to do anything. He acts like he is lost most the time.

This administration is just weird and confusing more than anything else. Great ideas and bad ideas we can work with but "Nothing at all" is a hard thing to work with.

[Shootist]

Silly wrote:

Part of the problem is the Afghan government took great offense at the UN saying they are corrupt.( that itself is funny coming from the corrupt UN.) Also the Afghan government is fighting us and saying the do not want more American troops on the ground in their country.
Makes it hard to help when they refuse to let you help. This government may not be the taliban but they do want absolute control and have it their way an no one elses. One evil gone just to have another take it's place is what we are facing.
Obama is confusing to me. He became the president but is still in campaign mode. Talks about the changes we need but does not offer ideas on how to change and does not lead in making changes.
Still scratching my head with what he wants to do and wondering if he actually wants to do anything. He acts like he is lost most the time.
This administration is just weird and confusing more than anything else. Great ideas and bad ideas we can work with but "Nothing at all" is a hard thing to work with.

AMEN..glory hallelujah!...If we can see it, there must be others somewhere out there in the vast expanse of this land who are scratching their heads and thinking the same thing....One becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight.....eight becomes sixteen........First thing you know, the nightmare will be over:)

[Lesson Learned FL]

I don't know much about war, or the economy, or reforming health care but I know a lot about organization and making plans and developing procedures. It's like building a house...you don't finish building a house and then decide that the footer is wrong or the electric is wrong, or you'd rather have two bedrooms instead of five. You have some idea of what you want in the beginning and then take care of problems as you go along. I have to say I'm disappointed in Obama, if this latest story is true and not just some propaganda put out by the military or some other agency or person who has a stake in the final plan.

[Shootist]

Lesson Learned FL wrote:

I don't know much about war, or the economy, or reforming health care but I know a lot about organization and making plans and developing procedures. It's like building a house...you don't finish building a house and then decide that the footer is wrong or the electric is wrong, or you'd rather have two bedrooms instead of five. You have some idea of what you want in the beginning and then take care of problems as you go along. I have to say I'm disappointed in Obama, if this latest story is true and not just some propaganda put out by the military or some other agency or person who has a stake in the final plan.

Right..."you have some idea of what you want in the beginning and then take care of problems as you go along"
I made one mistake...He turned down four plans, not three... One news story said three, the others said four.

[Mr TMP]

Lesson Learned FL wrote:

I don't know much about war, or the economy, or reforming health care but I know a lot about organization and making plans and developing procedures. It's like building a house...you don't finish building a house and then decide that the footer is wrong or the electric is wrong, or you'd rather have two bedrooms instead of five. You have some idea of what you want in the beginning and then take care of problems as you go along. I have to say I'm disappointed in Obama, if this latest story is true and not just some propaganda put out by the military or some other agency or person who has a stake in the final plan.

I've been hearing that the military does indeed leak info to try to back the Commander-in-Chief into the position they want to be in. That may be the case in this situation.

I heard on MSNBC a commentator relieve my mind on the situation in Pakistan. He said the impression you get of that country is of religious extremists ready to latch onto the nukes and that was my worry. But instead, he said the extremists are a very small minority and the country is for the main sophisticated, educated and secular, still dangerous but not so much as some percieve it to be.

[Shootist]

Mr TMP wrote:

<quoted text>
I've been hearing that the military does indeed leak info to try to back the Commander-in-Chief into the position they want to be in. That may be the case in this situation.
I heard on MSNBC a commentator relieve my mind on the situation in Pakistan. He said the impression you get of that country is of religious extremists ready to latch onto the nukes and that was my worry. But instead, he said the extremists are a very small minority and the country is for the main sophisticated, educated and secular, still dangerous but not so much as some percieve it to be.

We are now hearing the Ambassador (formerly a military man) to Afghanistan is telling Obama to NOT send troops, while his commander is begging for more troops?
I guess that's what you get when you have too many chiefs and not enough indians:)
NBC?(the Obama channel)..The "minority" in Pakistan hasn't been the one's Pakistan has been shooting it out with over the last few months is it?....I believe that has been the Taliban right? I see no difference in one bunch of nuts trying to destroy a country from within it, than another bunch of nuts crossing their border to do the same.

[Baserunner]

Administration Lowers Bar for Success
in Afghanistan War, Seeks Exit Strategy
Fox News, by Staff

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says the administration has 'no illusions' about the Afghanistan war. Officials say the administration wants to make sure the U.S. commitment in the country is not 'open-ended' as the president drafts a new strategy. Top Obama administration officials took pains to lower the bar for success in Afghanistan Sunday, stressing that the administration is seeking an exit strategy and holds "no illusions"

Cut and run.

[why]

Well it is a mess to say the elast but when the Afghan president is refusing to allow more troops into the country we two options. Remove hmi from office after we basically put him in office. or we do as he tells us.

If we does as he says and no more troops then we need to bring the ones there home because they will die for nothing and there is nto enough of them there to accomplish the job that needs doing.

So lets bring them home and keep them safe. And Obama can have his viet Nam and lose the next election even faster than he is now. But at least our troops will be safe and rested before the Next president has to do a job the right way.

[Shootist]

why wrote:

Well it is a mess to say the elast but when the Afghan president is refusing to allow more troops into the country we two options. Remove hmi from office after we basically put him in office. or we do as he tells us.
If we does as he says and no more troops then we need to bring the ones there home because they will die for nothing and there is nto enough of them there to accomplish the job that needs doing.
So lets bring them home and keep them safe. And Obama can have his viet Nam and lose the next election even faster than he is now. But at least our troops will be safe and rested before the Next president has to do a job the right way.

IF the Afghan President is "refusing to allow more troops in to his country" there is the possibility the Obama bunch is "telling" him NOW!.......Let's put the ______in his pocket so when we face defeat or pull out, the Administration can blame them..

[Lesson Learned FL]

why wrote:

Well it is a mess to say the elast but when the Afghan president is refusing to allow more troops into the country we two options. Remove hmi from office after we basically put him in office. or we do as he tells us.
If we does as he says and no more troops then we need to bring the ones there home because they will die for nothing and there is nto enough of them there to accomplish the job that needs doing.
So lets bring them home and keep them safe. And Obama can have his viet Nam and lose the next election even faster than he is now. But at least our troops will be safe and rested before the Next president has to do a job the right way.

And how is the next president going to do the job the right way? You've already said that we have no choice but to bring the troops home.....fuzzy thinking.

[Lesson Learned FL]

Shootist wrote:

<quoted text>IF the Afghan President is "refusing to allow more troops in to his country" there is the possibility the Obama bunch is "telling" him NOW!.......Let's put the ______in his pocket so when we face defeat or pull out, the Administration can blame them..

What did you say?? Too oblique again.

[Shootist]

Lesson Learned FL wrote:

<quoted text>
What did you say?? Too oblique again.

The US Ambassador is telling Obama NOT to send troops....The big General is begging for more troops... Now "why" said the Afghan President (Karzai) doesn't want them.(Which I hadn't heard)...So I was throwing out the possibility he MAY, just may be getting some "heat" from the Obama Administration to SAY he doesn't want more troops...(This would put a defeat or lack of success on the Afghan President and not on American policy)...Just a thought..