Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 159582 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#137169 Sep 16, 2014
GeorgiaCottongim wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but if you'd ever read our constitution, you would find that this so-called separation of church and state DOES NOT EXIST as those that that keep bringing it up seem to think it does. Our constitution simply states that government shall make no laws for or against religions of any kind. In other words, government is forbidden to legislate any religion in any way. They can't pass laws to forbid religion in schools, they can't pass laws to require religion in schools, they can't pass any laws about any religion or anything religious... therefore religion and state must remain separated under the context of laws... hands off... don't say it... don't even think about it... leave religion completely alone. Georgia Cottongim.
Specifically, the amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,...." That does not mean that government representatives haven't or won't try to.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137170 Sep 16, 2014
colt 45 wrote:
<quoted text>
Same here so what's the big deal??? I'm not forcing religion on u..
Depends upon what you are referring to? Are you speaking of bible study in public schools? It is not simply an issue of force. It is an issue of my tax dollars being use to teach your superstitions which I find wrong, and even dangerous to children of an impressionable age.
Churches are tax exempt so they can teach their religion. That is the deal made and you guys do not wish to honor it. So I think churches should lose tax exemptions at the least, or you guys need to realize government should not be doing the churches job.
And the way I see it, your particular superstition is being taught and no others. Well maybe the superstitions of Zeus, Thor and such are.
On top of all that, you guys also wish for science teaching to be stifled when your superstition does not line up with it.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137171 Sep 16, 2014
colt 45 wrote:
<quoted text>
Same here so what's the big deal??? I'm not forcing religion on u..
If bible study leads to this "colt 45 wrote:

<quoted text>you are a homosexual who's afraid that God don't love u just repent. "
It becomes a pretty big deal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137172 Sep 16, 2014
colt 45 wrote:
<quoted text>you are a homosexual who's afraid that God don't love u just repent.
Well the bible claims god love everyone, no matter if they break rules of the bible or not, so why would a homosexual fear not being loved by this supposed god? Maybe you do need some bible study, as you do not seem to know what the god is supposedly saying.
Fact is, you are making a claim you cannot know if it has any truth to it. And that would be you sinning according the bible, as you are bearing false witness. Would that mean god does not love you?
Of course I do not see homosexuality as a sin or bad, as it is not a transgression upon others.
It is not forced upon you, so what's the big deal?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137173 Sep 16, 2014
colt 45 wrote:
<quoted text> lol u can't see. Me.. I'm rolling down the block ain't got time for haters. U can't see me...
As of right now, you are the biggest hater on this thread. Typical Christian hypocrisy.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137174 Sep 16, 2014
BRAIN STORM wrote:
<quoted text>We seem to be getting off topic, as someone pointed out, and I don't want to highjack the thread.So, I will try to make this my last challenge to this "Belief" issue. I see what you are saying between a (known) discipline being science, and a Belief system being religion. I Do. My issue is with the "thought process" when drawing the conclusions. You seem to be stating a double standard. Yes one is going off of religion and one from science. And as I said before, science can look at past results and come up with an Educated guess based on past experiences and results. But there are still "Gaps" in science where there are unknowns. If something is not 100% known a conclusion must be drawn to fill that gap. Whether that conclusion is based on Educated Guessing, Past results, whatever, an unknown conclusion has to be drawn to fill that gap. "That Gap", That decision to answer the question using past results, means that you "believe" the ( Past) Science result to be accurate, to answer the unknown question at hand. And knowing those past results you can hypothesize the transitional outcome. Had there not been an 'Unknown" you can state for a fact something is true. Again, the transition from gap to conclusion being =(I think I know) means you have to" Believe" the past results showing what the trend is, will equal the probable outcome. That transition between seeing the results and coming to the conclusion, means you"believe" this out come to be true, based on past results. Because the linear line has been broken.
Well I am not the one insisting belief is of religion, that would be Q. And I am not really disagreeing with you, I just think the belief in evolution and the belief in gods are not equivalent in any manner.
Evolution will always have some gaps of evidence. Religion has no gaps of evidence because there is zero evidence in which to have a gap. It is all conjecture. It is all speculation. It is all guesswork. It has zero foundation of knowns.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137175 Sep 16, 2014
BRAIN STORM wrote:
<quoted text>We seem to be getting off topic, as someone pointed out, and I don't want to highjack the thread.So, I will try to make this my last challenge to this "Belief" issue. I see what you are saying between a (known) discipline being science, and a Belief system being religion. I Do. My issue is with the "thought process" when drawing the conclusions. You seem to be stating a double standard. Yes one is going off of religion and one from science. And as I said before, science can look at past results and come up with an Educated guess based on past experiences and results. But there are still "Gaps" in science where there are unknowns. If something is not 100% known a conclusion must be drawn to fill that gap. Whether that conclusion is based on Educated Guessing, Past results, whatever, an unknown conclusion has to be drawn to fill that gap. "That Gap", That decision to answer the question using past results, means that you "believe" the ( Past) Science result to be accurate, to answer the unknown question at hand. And knowing those past results you can hypothesize the transitional outcome. Had there not been an 'Unknown" you can state for a fact something is true. Again, the transition from gap to conclusion being =(I think I know) means you have to" Believe" the past results showing what the trend is, will equal the probable outcome. That transition between seeing the results and coming to the conclusion, means you"believe" this out come to be true, based on past results. Because the linear line has been broken.
And who cares if it is off topic? It is an interesting discussion, and that is good enough for me.
And I just read Yiago's response to your statement and I agree with him.
Legions

United States

#137176 Sep 16, 2014
I was raised is a religious cult that made life in school horrible. We were not allowed to say the pledge because we only pledged our allegiance to God. Being no part of the world meant we didn't celebrate any holidays so whenever there was a Christmas party or a birthday party, we got to go sit in the principles office. Then we had to dress up Saturday mornings and go knock on doors telling people the good news that God was going to kill them if they didn't believe the way I do. I hated doing that and was always scared I was going to run into one of my classmates.

To top it all off we had it beat into our heads that we were living in the last days and anyone who was alive during 1914 would see Jesus return to kill off everyone who wasn't part of my religion. We were not allowed to go to college because it was pointless since God didn't need lawyers and doctors so we spent every spare second we had going door to door just like the good book tells us.

When I turned 18 and left because I didn't want to live with those assholes and would rather God kill me, I was shunned by all my family and friends I grew up with. My own family isn't even allowed to talk to me because that's what the bible says, not to even eat with such ones.

So yeah, religion is a bunch of sht and it does hurt people, especially kids. The same religion I was raised in has also been fighting many battles in court over their "two witness rule" that they got out of the bible that requires a child being abused to have a witness to the crime and their word isn't good enough. They handle it withing their "church" and don't get the police involved. They just had to pay out 28 million to one of the abused kids.

I don't understand why religions don't use their big tax free church to teach their lies and let the schools teach facts. Parents would get so upset if their child comes home and repeats a bible teaching that they don't agree with. Religions can't even agree on major beliefs yet they want the schools to teach what they believe and not what someone else might believe. What the hell is wrong with your guys churches? Do they not work so you need the schools to do your jobs?
colt 45

United States

#137177 Sep 16, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
And who cares if it is off topic? It is an interesting discussion, and that is good enough for me.
And I just read Yiago's response to your statement and I agree with him.
homosexual u are.
colt 45

United States

#137178 Sep 16, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
My, my... how spiritually fit you are. I almost missed it beneath your rabid hostility. Seems like you've got the same disease as many other fundies who've passed though here - a complete inability to be honest with yourself and others.
Not sure how you missed the part of the Bible that tells you not to bear false witness against your neighbor. It's a pretty famous part of it given by God's Own Voice. Perhaps you think it's one of those rules you don't need to abide by because Jesus fulfilled the Covenant? I'd wager he'd have disagreed.
homosexual. U are.
357 m is better

Hyden, KY

#137179 Sep 16, 2014
colt 45 wrote:
<quoted text>homosexual. U are.
names label's and numbers i bet you a repub..
colt 45

United States

#137180 Sep 16, 2014
357 m is better wrote:
<quoted text> names label's and numbers i bet you a repub..
Just a person that believes in the Lord that's all.
phil greer

Louisville, KY

#137181 Sep 16, 2014
Christians believe that there is a universe creating super being capable of reading everyone’s thoughts. Christians believe that this super mind reading being is judging the thoughts of billions to see if they meet his standards. After reading and judging the thoughts of billions of humans the mind reading super being will impose an eternal sentence upon all of either a world of eternal supposed bliss spent worshiping the mind reading super being or eternal torture spent forever burning but never dying.

The thoughts determining which of the eternal judgments you will receive must be that you believe, contrary to any evidence whatsoever, the following; over 2000 years ago the mind reading super being that created the universe became a ghost, impregnated a Jewish teenager with himself, was later killed by the governing authorities that were ignorant of the fact that they were part of a suicide plan that the creator of the universe had thought up.

The thought reading, universe creating super being was according to his plan taking the place of sheep. The sheep were previously being killed to pay for what the thought reading, universe creating super being judged to be sins against his self. Part of this belief must be that the thought reading, universe creating super being after committing this assisted suicide didn’t stay dead but came back to life and flew into outer space.

The delusional Christian having lost the ability to understand how utterly insane all of this nonsense is believes that it is the unbeliever of this delusional world that fails to see the light and needs their help to come to the same conclusion that they have about Christianity and how much sense it all makes.
BRAIN STORM

Campbellsville, KY

#137182 Sep 16, 2014
P.G.
Is your issue just with Christians or are you an equal opportunity hater? After all, there are other religions who believe in a deity and a Hell, and you seem to have no problem with them.
You didn't mention Bible study in the classroom in your post, so I don't believe that was your motive to post on here. Those other religiouns have some "expanded" viewpoints as well. For example: Muslims believe there is the one "almighty God", named Allah, who is infinitely superior to and transcendent from humankind. Allah is viewed as the creator of the universe and the source of all good and all evil. Everything that happens is Allah's will. He is a powerful and strict judge, who will be merciful toward followers depending on the sufficiency of their life's good works and religious devotion. A follower's relationship with Allah is as a servant to Allah.
Though a Muslim honors several prophets, Muhammad is considered the last prophet and his words and lifestyle are that person's authority. To be a Muslim, one has to follow five religious duties: 1. Repeat a creed about Allah and Muhammad; 2. Recite certain prayers in Arabic five times a day; 3. Give to the needy; 4. One month each year, fast from food, drink, sex and smoking from sunrise to sunset; 5. Pilgrimage once in one's lifetime to worship at a shrine in Mecca. At death -- based on one's faithfulness to these duties -- a Muslim hopes to enter Paradise. If not, they will be eternally punished in hell.
For many people, Islam matches their expectations about religion and deity. Islam teaches that there is one supreme God, who is worshiped through good deeds and disciplined religious rituals. After death a person is rewarded or punished according to their religious devotion. Muslims believe that giving up one’s life for Allah is a sure way of entering Paradise.(Marilyn Adamson)
http://www.everystudent.com/features/connecti...

You didn't mention Bible study in the classroom in your post, so I don't believe that was your motive to post on here. Which also brings up another interesting point.(Secular religions). Atheist may say that atheism is not a religion. However the movement called "New Atheism" seems a lot like the evangelical Christians.

If it walks like a Duck, Quacks, like a Duck, and swims like a duck. It is most likely a Duck.
If New Atheism preaches like a religion, has metaphysics like a religion, has a "Belief system" like a religion, then there's a good chance that it's a religion.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_atheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n-atheis/
Virgin Merry

United States

#137183 Sep 16, 2014
All Christians are to me are just a little more civilized Muslims. Christians realized that the OT is full of violence, rape and no respect for women so they claim the OT was done away with. The Muslims haven't evolved that much yet and they still live by the OT life and they do violent things and have no respect for women. Maybe they will fake a book and call it the New Koran or whatever their version is and then they will be no different than Christians. The Christians that have evolved are called Atheists and yes they are way more intelligent than their Christian ancestors. True story, I can't make this crap up.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#137184 Sep 17, 2014
GeorgiaCottongim wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but if you'd ever read our constitution, you would find that this so-called separation of church and state DOES NOT EXIST as those that that keep bringing it up seem to think it does.
It's in the 1st Amendment. It's called the Establishment Clause.
GeorgiaCottongim wrote:
Our constitution simply states that government shall make no laws for or against religions of any kind. In other words, government is forbidden to legislate any religion in any way. They can't pass laws to forbid religion in schools, they can't pass laws to require religion in schools, they can't pass any laws about any religion or anything religious... therefore religion and state must remain separated under the context of laws.
You're forgetting one obvious fact: public schools ARE the state. They have to stay out of religious matters too.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#137185 Sep 17, 2014
BRAIN STORM wrote:
P.G.
Is your issue just with Christians or are you an equal opportunity hater? After all, there are other religions who believe in a deity and a Hell, and you seem to have no problem with them.
You didn't mention Bible study in the classroom in your post, so I don't believe that was your motive to post on here. Those other religiouns have some "expanded" viewpoints as well. For example: Muslims believe there is the one "almighty God", named Allah, who is infinitely superior to and transcendent from humankind. Allah is viewed as the creator of the universe and the source of all good and all evil. Everything that happens is Allah's will. He is a powerful and strict judge, who will be merciful toward followers depending on the sufficiency of their life's good works and religious devotion. A follower's relationship with Allah is as a servant to Allah.
Though a Muslim honors several prophets, Muhammad is considered the last prophet and his words and lifestyle are that person's authority. To be a Muslim, one has to follow five religious duties: 1. Repeat a creed about Allah and Muhammad; 2. Recite certain prayers in Arabic five times a day; 3. Give to the needy; 4. One month each year, fast from food, drink, sex and smoking from sunrise to sunset; 5. Pilgrimage once in one's lifetime to worship at a shrine in Mecca. At death -- based on one's faithfulness to these duties -- a Muslim hopes to enter Paradise. If not, they will be eternally punished in hell.
For many people, Islam matches their expectations about religion and deity. Islam teaches that there is one supreme God, who is worshiped through good deeds and disciplined religious rituals. After death a person is rewarded or punished according to their religious devotion. Muslims believe that giving up one’s life for Allah is a sure way of entering Paradise.(Marilyn Adamson)
http://www.everystudent.com/features/connecti...
You didn't mention Bible study in the classroom in your post, so I don't believe that was your motive to post on here. Which also brings up another interesting point.(Secular religions). Atheist may say that atheism is not a religion. However the movement called "New Atheism" seems a lot like the evangelical Christians.
If it walks like a Duck, Quacks, like a Duck, and swims like a duck. It is most likely a Duck.
If New Atheism preaches like a religion, has metaphysics like a religion, has a "Belief system" like a religion, then there's a good chance that it's a religion.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_atheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n-atheis/
Nothing in your post or links indicate that atheism or "New Atheists" are religious. The label seems more analogous to "The Naturalists" or "The Modernists" than to "The Baptists" or "The Methodists." I've seen nothing to indicate the authors preach like a religion, espouse metaphysics like a religion or have a belief system like a religion.* If it walks like a dog, quacks like a cicada and swims like an otter, it is most likely not a Duck.
*I have noticed several times that those of faith have an exceedingly difficult time with the concept that not everyone's brain is wired with their same predisposition toward religion.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#137186 Sep 17, 2014
BRAIN STORM wrote:
P.G.
Is your issue just with Christians or are you an equal opportunity hater? After all, there are other religions who believe in a deity and a Hell, and you seem to have no problem with them.
You didn't mention Bible study in the classroom in your post, so I don't believe that was your motive to post on here. Those other religiouns have some "expanded" viewpoints as well. For example: Muslims believe there is the one "almighty God", named Allah, who is infinitely superior to and transcendent from humankind. Allah is viewed as the creator of the universe and the source of all good and all evil. Everything that happens is Allah's will. He is a powerful and strict judge, who will be merciful toward followers depending on the sufficiency of their life's good works and religious devotion. A follower's relationship with Allah is as a servant to Allah.
Though a Muslim honors several prophets, Muhammad is considered the last prophet and his words and lifestyle are that person's authority. To be a Muslim, one has to follow five religious duties: 1. Repeat a creed about Allah and Muhammad; 2. Recite certain prayers in Arabic five times a day; 3. Give to the needy; 4. One month each year, fast from food, drink, sex and smoking from sunrise to sunset; 5. Pilgrimage once in one's lifetime to worship at a shrine in Mecca. At death -- based on one's faithfulness to these duties -- a Muslim hopes to enter Paradise. If not, they will be eternally punished in hell.
For many people, Islam matches their expectations about religion and deity. Islam teaches that there is one supreme God, who is worshiped through good deeds and disciplined religious rituals. After death a person is rewarded or punished according to their religious devotion. Muslims believe that giving up one’s life for Allah is a sure way of entering Paradise.(Marilyn Adamson)
http://www.everystudent.com/features/connecti...
You didn't mention Bible study in the classroom in your post, so I don't believe that was your motive to post on here. Which also brings up another interesting point.(Secular religions). Atheist may say that atheism is not a religion. However the movement called "New Atheism" seems a lot like the evangelical Christians.
If it walks like a Duck, Quacks, like a Duck, and swims like a duck. It is most likely a Duck.
If New Atheism preaches like a religion, has metaphysics like a religion, has a "Belief system" like a religion, then there's a good chance that it's a religion.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_atheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n-atheis/
P,G. spoke to the religion in question on this thread. No Muslims are on this thread, and I have yet to hear from one the entire time I have been on this thread.
P G mentioned the heaven and hell as one small part of his statement. Most of his statement would not apply to Muslims or Jews. So I feel your giant leap of an assumption is not based on good evidence. Most atheists do not favor Muslims over Christians. Most atheists do not wish for holy books of any sort to be taught in public schools. Your assumption defies the norm.

Now to your charge of atheism being a religion. By your logic, you are claiming any like minded people who evangelize for their cause to be a religion. This would mean Greenpeace or Amway is a religion, and that is just a poor use of language. It is disingenuous.
Just because things have similarities, does not mean they should be categorized the exact same.

The many differences between atheism and the religious are the reasons we should not use the same terms to categorize them. Atheists worship no beings. We have no holy books that we feel are infallible. We have no connecting rituals. We do not have dogmatic philosophies.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#137187 Sep 17, 2014
colt 45 wrote:
<quoted text> There we go your a homosexual that is really afraid to find God cause your living in sin. Repent stop being gay and get saved. God loves you but being gay is a sin. Change yourself.
Hey, maybe you missed the part where he said he wasn't gay. Why do you keep harassing this overly sensitive man? Can't you see he has an identity crisis going on? You're going to make the complex worse..

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#137188 Sep 17, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
It's in the 1st Amendment. It's called the Establishment Clause.
<quoted text>
You're forgetting one obvious fact: public schools ARE the state. They have to stay out of religious matters too.
Technically, the first amendment applies to congress aka the federal government and one must recognize that states were far more autonomous then than they are now. Those protections weren't extended (by ratification of the fourteenth amendment) to the state and individual level until nearly a hundred years later - which is how and why in 1801 the Danbury Baptists found themselves at odds with the Congregationalist majority in Hartford.(Congregationalism became the state religion of Connecticut 17 years after Jefferson's letter.). Since every educational district has to adhere to their state DOE standards and those standards must comply with the Bill of Rights, the first amendment is applicable to public schools. In short, you are correct. Public schools can make no rules respecting an establishment of religion.

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