Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 170074 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111976 Aug 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Depends on your definition of god. Christianity defines god as being perfect. There's a lot of logical contradictions in a perfect god that creates imperfect beings, allows them to suffer, and hides his grace behind a veil of mystery. It makes no sense.

And appealing to that "mystery" as if we can't comprehend it is just a way of justifying ANYTHING you want to say about god. It is an evasion of logic. Yet even the most hardcore Christian Fundamentalist still must acknowledge that logic dominates any debate or else you aren't having a debate.

God cannot break the rules of logic, no matter how "perfect".

Anyway, my point is why create flawed creatures that suffer and then sit back out of reach, out of sight, and watch? If that is god, then god is a real bastard isn't he?

Even if you take faith as the answer. Most people do not have faith in your god. Your god is very, very specific. It is a Mormon god. I would argue that is it not the same god worshiped by Baptists or Catholics at all since your theology diverges so radically from the norm.

Yet if you follow your own logic the Mormon god is the real one. And everyone else is mislead.

But on what grounds can you possibly base that assumption except on pure, unrefined, blind faith?
We grow from our trials. We learn and move on and try not to repeat the same mistakes (in most cases). Even non-believers acknowledge this.
We are being prepared for much more than you know now.

I have openly said that I have faith.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111977 Aug 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Sure.

1887 Edmunds-Tucker Act

"The act disincorporated both the LDS Church and the Perpetual Emigration Fund on the grounds that they fostered polygamy. The act prohibited the practice of polygamy and punished it with a fine of from $500 to $800 and imprisonment of up to five years. It dissolved the corporation of the church and directed the confiscation by the federal government of all church properties valued over a limit of $50,000. The act was enforced by the U.S. Marshal and a host of deputies."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmunds%E2%80%93...

In 1890, 3 years later, the Mormon Church leader amazing had a revelation that they should stop practicing polygamy.

Of course they didn't. But by gosh in 1904 they did.

Now don't get me wrong here. I don't really care if you practice polygamy or not and I don't think the government had much business banning it or seizing church property, personally.

But it is funny how the LDS buckled when sh*t got real in the wallet.
It wasn't because of money. The government was prepared to destroy the church by imprisoning all the males practicing polygamy. The revelation was a vision of how the church would be destroyed by demolishing families. This is why they were told to end plural marriage. It was not because of money or Utah's statehood. This is a misconception.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111978 Aug 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Are you saying that when I say "god dammit" I am hurting you like I might hurt a child by saying "I hate you"?

Surely you have heard the phrase a few times. And since I am an atheist it really is a meaningless thing for me to say anyway.

I assure you it is harmless.
No, it isn't harmless. It makes many cringe because of the love they have for God. It'd be like someone calling your gramma vulgar names. Yes they are just words, but they would invoke emotions inside you because of the love you have for your gramma.

I personally feel it is the worst thing that could be said in the English language. Be aware, what you feel is harmless, is offensive to others.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111979 Aug 29, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>I watched this on t.v. quite some time ago that showed a police officer issueing a ticket to a speeder. When the officer handed the ticket to the driver he began cursing and screaming like a nut, ripped up the ticket in front of the officer and threw in on the ground, all the while still cursing. The police officer, at no point, ever raised his voice and calmly told the driver he would also issue him a ticket for litering if he did not pick up every torn piece of paper he just threw on the ground, which of course the driver did. The officer never advised the driver to refrain from cursing at any time. After the driver picked all the torn pieces up, the Cop told him he was free to go and have a nice day! The irate driver drove off.

My point is... this guy was using profanity in almost every word and yet the cop did nothing...So what do you think would happen?
The liberal use of profanity is not breaking any laws that I'm aware of
Try it. Let us know

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.pixoto.com/quantumm

#111980 Aug 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it isn't harmless. It makes many cringe because of the love they have for God. It'd be like someone calling your gramma vulgar names. Yes they are just words, but they would invoke emotions inside you because of the love you have for your gramma.
I personally feel it is the worst thing that could be said in the English language. Be aware, what you feel is harmless, is offensive to others.
Grandma Dammit doesn't really evoke much emotional response from me...

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111981 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I only conclude you refuse to take the outsiders test is due to your constant refusal to do so in specific posts I make.
I have been specific about them and now you cite your life long ago as if you are done testing.
As I said, one must constantly be taking the outsiders test. Their is no end to it. If you skip questions, you are only cheating yourself and the test fails.

Now may I ask, does your family refuse to listen to the Holy Ghost? If not, then why are they not getting the memo?
They never even tried to learn for themselves. You have to put forth your own effort rather than expect everything to be handed to you all the time. The Holy Ghost works that way most of the time.

You are free to think what you wish about me. I have not shied away from your questions, you just never liked my answers.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111982 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>First, it makes no logical sense that people of those times could not follow the philosophy you follow now.

Now lets keep in mind, humans learn by example.
So this tale being in the bible is highly likely to be teaching one to murder in mass. We know by history it has happened. We know by reading the bible Moses took it upon himself to have troops kill the innocent kids and women many times.

You have your apologetics down pretty well, but it still does not cut the mustard with reality.

If I was all powerful and a robot builder, I would not need to murder my robots, I would just reprogram them with my words as I did the first time.
They were given the higher law with Adam. And they followed it for many generations but eventually failed. They were first punished by slavery, and then after freed from bondage, resorted to wicked ways and created an idol to worship instead of the God that freed them. This is when God decided to give them the lesser laws.

Murder means killing innocent blood. These people that God killed were not innocent by His judgment. But remember, spirits do not die. He only ended their earthly experience. And He did so because they showed they would only do wicked while on earth.

And if you remember Terminator, the self aware system did not allow reprogramming.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111983 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So the mass murdering god that was jealous like an immature person is now all grown up and has learned how to be moral? Then the god is far from the being I would look to for moral perfection. I would follow no mass murderer, even if he found the error of his ways. But as you claim, the murders were moral in his eyes.

And of course Bin Laden follow the example of his god, as one should know, this is human nature. Evidently you and your god have not learned this basic lesson. I say you both still need a bit more growing up.

Maybe what your god did should not be told, as it will be imitated.
I think His mentality was that in some cases the wicked should perish so the righteous would flourish. But with His lesson of the wheat and tares, He says to let them live together.

Bin Laden killed innocent people. This was not what God did.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111984 Aug 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Something I find curious is that god doesn't really tell people what to do prior to Moses. I mean, there some things he says but mostly it seems to be implied. I don't remember there being much said about what specifically drove him to kill every man, woman, and baby in the world with the flood. I know it says he was not pleased with humans but what exactly had they done? And when did god give them specific commandments not to do those things?

This is one of the reasons I don't think the Bible is a very good tool for figuring out what is morally right. God sends far too many mixed messages. One minute he seems to not know what's happening while he's away from Eden, the next minute he's a burning bush, and then he's attacking Moses on the side of the road. Later he's demanding burnt offerings and issuing hundreds and hundreds of mandates. Then he's commanding his people to murder and pillage and steal land.

Then he impregnates a virgin who bears his son...who gets killed for political reasons. And we're supposed to find some kind of consistent and applicable moral code in that jumbled mess somehow.

Isn't it easier to use our brains and our shared sense of ethics to figure out what to do? After all, that's what we do anyway. I don't' care how much a person talks about the spirit of the lord and the holy ghost in the end that person is using his brain to make decisions about what to do. God is not telling him anything.
Says one with no experience or knowledge of the subject.
Be careful not to set aside things before you fully understand it. Based off of your summary, one can conclude you do not know the scriptures or their meaning at all.

Since: Feb 12

Rancho Cordova, CA

#111985 Aug 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
They never even tried to learn for themselves. You have to put forth your own effort rather than expect everything to be handed to you all the time. The Holy Ghost works that way most of the time.
You are free to think what you wish about me. I have not shied away from your questions, you just never liked my answers.
Is the Holy Ghost flesh and bone?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111986 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So you are undecided on if the flood was moral? You keep defending god for why he did it, so I just assumed you thought it was a good thing to do.
If I kept giving justifications for Hitlers holocaust wouldn't you think I was claiming the holocaust was moral?
They were both mass murders with reasons of justification. I agree with none of them.

Really what I am seeing from you is apologetics of a holocaust.
I think the act was just. God granted us this earthly experience. These chose to defy God. Therefore He pulled them out of the game so His plans could continue. This wasn't about morality. It was about God's judgment.

It is not for man to determine who is righteous and who is not. Only God knows the hearts of people. Hitler is a pitiful excuse for a comparison to God.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#111987 Aug 29, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Get over yourself... You made a blanket statement and it was wrong.. I only point to the facts of the matter and you cannot dispute those facts with rational argument and fall to calling me "thick"... At that point I figured any rational debate was over and I won so then I reserved the option of poking you with a stick... Your dogmatic adherence to your position and falling to ad hominem attack places you far closer to the religious zealots than I have ever been...
"I won" Lmfao.

Do you get a prize? Maybe a topix trophy.......

Lack of understanding medal.......Toooooo funny.....

O lord my sides are hurting must be releasing enzymes......

Did I mention you have a lot of periods.......

"thick" was a mistake, arrogant would serve better.......

I would point out where you got this whole thing twisted....

But you and I have been here before.......

And I find it amusing and strangly interesting......

"I won" "I won"

*sigh*
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#111988 Aug 29, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer me this... in the last 40 years Smoking has dropped by 70% in the US.... If Smoking caused heart disease then why has New Onset of heart disease remained constant and in some populations increased?
Smoking by Woman has dropped by 60% in the last 40 years yet Lung Cancer in women is Up by 3%....
The Only so called smoking related disease that has Went down is Lung Cancer in men but only by 7%
Every other so called Smoking related (New Onset) disease has remained the same or when up as the number of people in the US that smoke has dropped by 70%...
Now Death Rates have dropped but that is due to earlier diagnosis and better treatments but if Smoking was the driving force once claimed then New Onset of those diseases should at least semi parallel the decrease in use...
I never said smoking causes heart disease. Smoking affects every part of your body, and not in a positive way.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#111989 Aug 29, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Grandma Dammit doesn't really evoke much emotional response from me...
I dub thee "religummist". Get those enzymes flowing.....

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111990 Aug 29, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>do whut wrote, "<quoted text>
If we were protected from every bad thing that could ever happen, what would we be like? I would think we would take everything good for granted and just expect it all the time. I think you have to know the bad to appreciate the good.
I think the analogy works very well. I think it closely parallels. "

I agree that much of what we appreciate is in contrast to that which we endure. Even diet Pepsi and Spam taste palatable if you're thirsty and hungry... enough. Your argument falls flat in thinking we have to experience a bad thing to appreciate a good thing. You don't have to kill to value a life. You don't have to hate in order to know love. You don't have to have been deaf to appreciate a song or blind to appreciate beauty.

The utter nonsense is that >according to your own Book<, Adam and Eve were protected from every bad thing that could ever happen - except for the retaliation of a god.
In contrast, I'd have to have a ravenous emotional void for that story to become palatable.
But we do certainly compare beauty with ugly, and we appreciate beauty a lot more after being surrounded by ugly. You say kill, but I mean any type of death, even natural causes, helps us to appreciate life.
You can appreciate a good song just by understanding its complexity.

I still think that it is human nature to take things for granted. We often don't even think about our own health until something is in question. You don't know how much you need that little finger until you break one. You sometimes think your own life sucks until you meet someone that is much worse off.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111991 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So you can avoid taking the outsiders test? I see. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I'm saying I have, and I'm giving you the insider's perspective now.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111992 Aug 29, 2013
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
Saddam was a major "catalyst". Had he not invaded Kuwait, things may have been a lot different...then and now.
(and there's nothing that will ever convince me any different, not even adding certain other aspects to the whole big picture, so don't even bother trying.)
oh you conservatives just have to support bush no matter if it contradicts your philosophy or not. Hypocrite.
Saddam did not attack us. This was the topic you were speaking of with Syria and Libya but now your standards have changed for bush. Partisan.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111993 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Reminds me of a possible motive for Joseph Smith's claims of a god leading him to golden tablets.
Ego's.

The Mormon apologetics will say no one would make this story up due to likely persecution. I guess they do not consider how humans do not always take all possible repercussions into consideration and some will even take the repercussions for the rewards of power. It is the human way.

Apologetic's like this forget their are many possible answers to the situation. It amazes me that they would claim it is impossible that ego could be a motive but god handing over golden tablets is so plausible.
I just can't imagine he would continue with a lie after receiving the persecution that he and his family endured while never gaining any wealth. I would think he would be like, man forget this, lets just drop it and move to where no one knows me.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#111994 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Evidently this is deeper than Du What can go.
Clearly the official apologetic keeps him from asking questions that are of the outsiders test. Or at least anything below the surface questions.
Since he will not continue the debate, I can see he rests his case upon god having the double standard. God can and murder, people cannot.
Clear double standards.
And yet he wonders why we do not just dive in and try to have faith.
Evidently it takes double standards to have faith. So I suppose that is my curse, I have consistent standards, thus I cannot have faith.
Sorry for not being at your beck and call. I can't always live on Topix. I haven't left for good. Things just came up that kept me away from here.
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#111995 Aug 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Try it. Let us know
I have (joe dirt) I was stopped by a police officer at a routine road check and after he continued to be a complete azz, I returned his attitude. After he warned me of my behavior, I warned him that I was only returning the favor, he had no right for his behavior just because he was an officer. He was supposed to be representing the law, not abusing his authority of it...I also showed him the fraternal order of police sticker in the corner of my truck window. He apologized to me and I was motioned on through w/out any further incident. True Story!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Pikeville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Ray Jones on WYMT 18 min Bless your heart 44
~*~ Last Post Wins ~*~ (Aug '11) 1 hr Princess Hey 9,594
What's mitch McConnell done for coal, when ther... (Jul '14) 1 hr ahillarydeportable 38,605
Why Are So Many People Leaving Pike County ? (May '11) 2 hr do better 1,166
Rachel Ratliff on facebook (Apr '16) 2 hr Turkey 43
Pike County Loves President Trump!! 2 hr best president ever 74
Rickie Bartley resigns 3 hr big daddy here 19
Dear Ray Jones and Amy 9 hr New Indictment WK 24

Pikeville Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Pikeville Mortgages