Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#109648
Aug 5, 2013
 
You may have been discussing that letter as I have not been following the conversation, If so, then yes I agree that the letter is stating the Government will make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The Government is neutral and deems it solely between the Man and his God and none other.

Kennedy also touched on this subject in 1960.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#109649
Aug 5, 2013
 

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SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Disagree on the Danbury thing. I think the letter showed the intent of the willingness of the forefathers in keeping the government OUT of the "business" of peoples personal choices in religion. GOOD for people who chose to live as individuals, rather than shackled to plantations of diests...even if probably why we need a flat federal sales tax with no exclusions these days.
My personal opinion on the rest, they're all interesting, and learning about anything like that just offers insights, as to just how people may think (or not...and I don't think communisTic type regimish ones, think very enlightenedly...more so rather power hungrily and corruptedly)
Do you have any idea of how Danbury was interfering with people's religion? I really don't think you do. They were insisting on a state religion. So Jefferson said get your government paws out of the religion game and stick to secular duties.
So you claim to disagree with me yet give no explanation if the disagreement.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#109650
Aug 5, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not reasonable to expect man to duplicate or create that which is beyond his intellectual means.
What God accomplished in 1 day man can not duplicate,regardless of how much time he is given.
Man can make a dummy, but can not give it life.....Although...
First show some evidence god ever created a single thing, then show us evidence he created a bunch of stuff in one day.
Fact is, their is absolutely zero evidence the creation story of the bible is as claimed.

But yes, their is no reason to assume man can create what nature took billions of years to do.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#109651
Aug 5, 2013
 

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SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
That the forefathers didn't have quite a hold on creating as perfectly an oiled running nation as they thought they did.
Utopia cannot exist. I note you avoided all questions and points.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109653
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
So you claim to disagree with me yet give no explanation if the disagreement.
Nice try boonedoooglymassholio. But here's the REAL baBing...

In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court declared, "The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach." The "separation of church and state" phrase which they invoked, and which has today become so familiar, was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President.

The election of Jefferson America's first Anti-Federalist President elated many Baptists since that denomination, by-and-large, was also strongly Anti-Federalist. This political disposition of the Baptists was understandable, for from the early settlement of Rhode Island in the 1630s to the time of the federal Constitution in the 1780s, the Baptists had often found themselves suffering from the centralization of power.

Consequently, now having a President who not only had championed the rights of Baptists in Virginia but who also had advocated clear limits on the centralization of government powers, the Danbury Baptists wrote Jefferson a letter of praise on October 7, 1801, telling him:

Among the many millions in America and Europe who rejoice in your election to office, we embrace the first opportunity ... to express our great satisfaction in your appointment to the Chief Magistracy in the United States....[W]e have reason to believe that America's God has raised you up to fill the Chair of State out of that goodwill which He bears to the millions which you preside over. May God strengthen you for the arduous task which providence and the voice of the people have called you.... And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his Heavenly Kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator.[1]

However, in that same letter of congratulations, the Baptists also expressed to Jefferson their grave concern over the entire concept of the First Amendment, including of its guarantee for "the free exercise of religion":

Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty: that religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions,[and] that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor.
In short, the inclusion of protection for the "free exercise of religion" in the constitution suggested to the Danbury Baptists that the right of religious expression was government-given (thus alienable) rather than God-given (hence inalienable), and that therefore the government might someday attempt to regulate religious expression. This was a possibility to which they strenuously objected-unless, as they had explained, someone's religious practice caused him to "work ill to his neighbor."....
AND-In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general [federal] government. Second Inaugural Address, 1805 [4]
AND[O]ur excellent Constitution ... has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. Letter to the Methodist Episcopal Church, 1808 [5]
AND-I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions ... or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 [6]
AND MOSTLY
Jefferson believed that the government was to be powerless to interfere with religious expressions for a very simple reason: he had long witnessed the unhealthy tendency of government to encroach upon the free exercise of religion.
"DUH" Gvrment OUT of church business.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109654
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Utopia cannot exist. I note you avoided all questions and points.
Not my fault if you can't comprehend that which is plainly stuck in front of your eyeballs to read.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109655
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Do you have any idea of how Danbury was interfering with people's religion? I really don't think you do. They were insisting on a state religion. So Jefferson said get your government paws out of the religion game and stick to secular duties.
So you claim to disagree with me yet give no explanation if the disagreement.
and you can STOP just trying to rewrite REAL History now--

Unless of course you think it's something original or something..mm on second thought, nah...you'd probably just try and dump in your opinion and and try and twist and distort the REAL facts.

Maybe a new hobby?
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109656
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Utopia cannot exist. I note you avoided all questions and points.
YOU owe me GOOD for that explanation now lol.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109657
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Utopia cannot exist. I note you avoided all questions and points.
See how your post has a number ending in 51...

Be SURE-not to miss my response answering all your blablahblahblather and then some-(ending in 53!!!)
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#109658
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>First show some evidence god ever created a single thing, then show us evidence he created a bunch of stuff in one day.
Fact is, their is absolutely zero evidence the creation story of the bible is as claimed.
But yes, their is no reason to assume man can create what nature took billions of years to do.
In other words,you are saying that, man is capable of creating life and that by using his intelligence he will be able to design and create some form of life...That process would be called Intelligent Design.....
Gee,Where have I heard this Intelligent Design argument?
And to think,there are those who would disagree with you.
These Fools would tell you that you do not need Intelligent design or God , in order to create life.
They will tell you that life was spontaneously created from nonliving matter.... And,,,They have no idea how this happened?
Some will make those assertions and then recant.......

Life is the result of one,that being God,having the knowledge to intelligently design it....
Yes,Our God lives and creared all by means of Jesus Christ.
His word tells me so And,,,To those that seek him,he has proved his existence
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109659
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>The Noah story is not one of good morality. It is a story of mass murder. In fact the most massive murdering spree of all time.
Now you can keep that death cult story in your own life, but please don't glorify that evil mentality to my kids in public school.
How ever, I CAN agree with you 100 percent on THAT type of pitch forked, witch hunting, dark age, barabaric, under a rock ignorant type of mentality.

I wouldn't want any one like that around my kids either!!!

(and I thank goodness they never let such around US as kids!!)
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109660
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Utopia cannot exist. I note you avoided all questions and points.
Although I will give you a few points for maybe having a shred of enough actual COMMON SENSE (as did the FF) to realize-

NO GOVERNMENT would ever be able to "demand" ALL people believe/worship (or not) the same.

That would just be plain old, outright-- IGNORANT.

Hense, your "utopia" comment would be quite TRUE.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109661
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Do you have any idea of how Danbury was interfering with people's religion? I really don't think you do. They were insisting on a state religion. So Jefferson said get your government paws out of the religion game and stick to secular duties.
So you claim to disagree with me yet give no explanation if the disagreement.
And here---one more little quip-just for the fly ball out beyond centerfield HOME RUN!

That Court then succinctly summarized Jefferson's intent for "separation of church and state":
[T]he rightful purposes of civil government are for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order. In th[is]... is found the true distinction between what properly belongs to the church and what to the State.[13]

(OR duhmed down and more plainly stated-people are free to worship/believe (or not) whatever-but they are LIABLE, AND Subject to CIVIL LAW codes of behavior-- should they inflict Harm in any shape, form or fashion! And that includes Bullying, terrorzing, stalking freakishly etc etc others!)
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#109662
Aug 5, 2013
 

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I agree with Denis Diderot, The Distance between the Throne and the Alter can never be too great.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#109663
Aug 5, 2013
 
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the post before it...there's about four no brainer links if you need to check them out.
I did not include any from Ky colleges, although.........I could, but I won't...you can search them out yourself, and ask for guidance along the way if you should need to, or not...as that would be your Personal choice of introspective thought.
Again this is not about higher education schools. Nice diversion though.
What you cite is not the procedure for the controversial class in question. If it was, the controversy would be very small.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#109664
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Madison wrote, and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States."In a letter to Edward Livingston Madison further expanded, "We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt." This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, originally authored by Jefferson and championed by Madison, and guaranteeing that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

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#109665
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, if you were on the Mormon list and you never asked to be taken off then you are still counted as a member. That sort of thing is not going to affect your life at all (we are talking about a fantasy organization, after all) but it irritates me that their numbers are artificially swollen.
Me too honestly. More inactive members should write the letter to be removed, or sign the one that you can get from the Bishop. I'd rather have accurate numbers as well.

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#109666
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Seeing as how the subject was faith in god in general, I am not sure why you act as if I am off topic. Again it is you who does not seem to be able to keep up with the subject.
No, I cannot get past the idea faith is a virtue. I cannot just dive in and believe in a god that has absolutely zero evidence and looks to be extremely conflicted and immoral. I know all this insults you, so sugar coating is not going to likely help anyway.
I see faith as a weakness, not a virtue.
Is faithfully believing god wants you to fly a plane into a building a virtue or a weakness in your eyes? I see it as a weakness.
Is discriminating upon others due to your religious beliefs a virtue or a weakness in your eyes? I see it as a weakness, and this is why I oppose your beliefs.
This has everything to do with you not being able to defend your faith with logical reasoning.
I have never heard of Mormons flying planes into buildings, so to compare us to Islamic terrorists seems immature at best.
I'm not asking you to dive in. Stay on the side of the pool if you want. That's your choice. "Faith is a virtue" are words I have not said. Faith is a hope and belief of things not seen. I have faith because I have received answers that could not have come from my own thoughts. I know I have heard the voice of the Holy Ghost because I learned something that I didn't know before. I believe in the Holy Ghost because had I not listened to the words He spoke, I would be dead today.
I don't expect you to believe me, but I would hope that these things I say could happen to others, to enrich their lives. These experiences, and even better ones, can happen to anyone if they seek God.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#109667
Aug 5, 2013
 
When teachers enforce their beliefs onto students, the line between Church and State is crossed and they are in violation of the First Amendment. Teachers should avoid discussion on religion within the classroom. If the child wants to learn of Religion, it should be done at home or a Church.

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#109668
Aug 5, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Then say the words, because I cannot read your thoughts. But the answer has already been given by others and I already. Do you not accept those answers as logical? If not, why not? What about those answers defies logic? Do you dispute their was a mass extinction? Do you dispute there was a large difference in the amount of oxygen then? Do you dispute there was a void that mammals were better adapted to fill? Do you dispute there were animals around hundreds of millions of years ago?
Sometimes evolution looks like the luck of the draw, and in some respects it might be. Animals go extinct quite often. Humans might be extinct within a few thousand years. Maybe it will be a hundred thousand years from now. If that is the end of humans, we will have existed for less time than many dinosaurs. If that is the end, we will have existed for less time than some other hominids.

I know it is instinctive to think all was built for us, but in the history of earth, humans are yet but a blip in time.
One could say the earth looks more like it was built for cockroaches, or ants. Ants would likely say this, but they do not have such an imagination.
Q answered the question very well. The oxygen. It's interesting to me. I'm not disputing anything. Get your panties out of a wad.

Most people think about Tyrannosaurus rex for Brachiosaurus or pteranodon types when they think of dinosaurs. Most people don't think about the dinosaurs that lived in the water. But if I need to be more specific, there you go. My question was about land dwelling dinosaurs. Why don't we have creatures that size anymore? Oxygen content was an interesting answer. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

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