Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149706 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

London, KY

#103768 May 16, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Technically, yes in some cases. It is not murder unless there is a law against it, and the subject is human, which fetuses do not count as, or the owner of that organism prosecutes. That's the law, if you don't like it you have to avoid living in a society.
Abortion is Homicide by Definition.... As for living in such a society you are Mistaken... I don't have to avoid living in it, I can live in it and continue to point out that such actions are Homicide and try to change those ill conceived laws so as to protect Human Beings yet born and not just those that wish to commit homicide of them...

Fetuses do indeed By Court Precedent count as Human.. If you can be arrested, tried and convicted of Homicide for Killing one it then is by precedent Human... Homicide is the act of One Human Being killing another Human Being... By Definition... There are people in jail, Convicted of Homicide for killing a Fetus... If the Fetus was Not a Human Being then they could not be convicted of Homicide... Some of those that have been convicted of Homicide were for the Homicide of a fetus as young as a few week gestation...

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103769 May 16, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Abortion is Homicide by Definition.... As for living in such a society you are Mistaken... I don't have to avoid living in it, I can live in it and continue to point out that such actions are Homicide and try to change those ill conceived laws so as to protect Human Beings yet born and not just those that wish to commit homicide of them...
Fetuses do indeed By Court Precedent count as Human.. If you can be arrested, tried and convicted of Homicide for Killing one it then is by precedent Human... Homicide is the act of One Human Being killing another Human Being... By Definition... There are people in jail, Convicted of Homicide for killing a Fetus... If the Fetus was Not a Human Being then they could not be convicted of Homicide... Some of those that have been convicted of Homicide were for the Homicide of a fetus as young as a few week gestation...
Since the fetus is not technically alive until a certain point, it is not homicide until that point.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#103770 May 16, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Since the fetus is not technically alive until a certain point, it is not homicide until that point.
And who determines when that is?

It is a living organism as a zygote.
Since you like evidence so much, maybe you can appreciate this:
I have evidence with a sample size of over 6 billion that a fetus that is not aborted or miscarried will indeed become a human. A fetus therefore is a living organism that will become a birthed human.
conservative

Chesterfield, MO

#103771 May 16, 2013
This would be in direct conflict to the 1st Amendment to the Constitution - Separation of Church and State - and everyone's right to their own religious belief (or non-belief).

the intentions of the 1st amendment was to keep government out of religion, not religion out of government. If not, why did we used to use a bible under oath in our courts of law and why is IN GOD WE TRUST on our currency. People need to wake up and use some common sense about what our children are being taught.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#103772 May 16, 2013
kuda wrote:
Here’re some questions for creationists to address. I suspect opinions may vary, which will make it interesting to discuss. By creationists, I mean people who believe there is a god and that this god directly created at least the Earth and everything on Earth, a living planet. This belief is now way to explain where we came from. Now, the questions:
1. Where did god come from?
2. Did god mainly kickstart us to get the ball rolling or does he directly intervene moment by moment as micromanager?
3. Can you influence god’s decisions by praying?
Maybe you should start by
1)Stating whether you are a believer and what you believe in
2) Atheist /Agnostic
3) Other
and provide us with your answer to those questions

Then,have the AA's answer the questions,just in case they've had a change of mind.

Porta Fa Ala radeskanz LOL

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103773 May 16, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
And who determines when that is?
It is a living organism as a zygote.
Since you like evidence so much, maybe you can appreciate this:
I have evidence with a sample size of over 6 billion that a fetus that is not aborted or miscarried will indeed become a human. A fetus therefore is a living organism that will become a birthed human.
A living organism it is not, until a certain stage. However, scientifically we give you the benefit and state it is considered living when the brain develops, a bit earlier than when it is technically living.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

#103774 May 16, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Both are still a living organism that will grow into an adult human.
Does the immortal spirit of the dead fetus recycle back in the same mother? If the dead fetus spirit is immortal can it be recycled into a Hindu or Muslim female instead of one that was once in a Mormon female? What is the Mormon teaching on this?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#103775 May 16, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>A living organism it is not, until a certain stage. However, scientifically we give you the benefit and state it is considered living when the brain develops, a bit earlier than when it is technically living.
It is a living organism at conception. At that point it is a fertilized egg That continues to develop into a human without assistance other than nutrients that it gains from the mother.
No one has the right to name the exact time when it becomes a lot. However if you can show me proof that this fertilized egg does not become a human, maybe then I will listen.
It is a child. There is absolutely no difference in killing a birth four-year-old child than an unborn child.

A mother deciding that she does not want to keep this child that is not born should be treated no differently from a mother who chooses to no longer keep her four-year-old because she doesn't want him/her anymore

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#103776 May 16, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>Does the immortal spirit of the dead fetus recycle back in the same mother? If the dead fetus spirit is immortal can it be recycled into a Hindu or Muslim female instead of one that was once in a Mormon female? What is the Mormon teaching on this?
There is no recycling of the spirit. If a child dies before born, he or she still obtained that body. Since obtaining a body is one of the reasons that we chose to come to earth, then that part of that child's mission is over. One of the other reasons that we choose to come to earth is to have our faith in God tested. This child's faith was so strong that it's Faith did not need to be tested. They do not however, have the experience of living life on earth. There are many things on this earth that we learn that this child would not have the opportunity to learn.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#103777 May 16, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have evidence with a sample size of over 6 billion that a fetus that is not aborted or miscarried will indeed become a human. A fetus therefore is a living organism that will become a birthed human.
Define human. And define living. Both must be very clear before you go jumping down that rabbit hole.
conservative wrote:
the intentions of the 1st amendment was to keep government out of religion, not religion out of government. If not, why did we used to use a bible under oath in our courts of law and why is IN GOD WE TRUST on our currency. People need to wake up and use some common sense about what our children are being taught.
The intention, when discussing truths that were self evident, was clearly that blacks/asians/women/etc. really didn't deserve those rights. Why else would we enslave, persecute, mistreat, and restrict the rights of these people for hundreds of years?

News flash, idiot:
Your argument is garbage. Just because a bunch of people do something for a long time does NOT mean that it's right, or intended. Individuals can practice whatever religion they choose. Government should not have any part of any of it, other that to allow complete equality in the practice or non-practice of any religion. No Bibles, no Qurans, no Mahaburatas... none of it. You cannot keep the government out of religion and at the same time force a standard of Christianity.

The prevalence of Bibles and "God statements" throughout government is simply another case of the majority steamrolling everyone else. This government is a republic to prevent exactly that sort of thing. It is wrong, in any case other than individual choice, and it will go away eventually when younger people start to get it and the bigots die off.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#103778 May 16, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
Define human. And define living. Both must be very clear before you go jumping down that rabbit hole.
conservative wrote, "
the intentions of the 1st amendment was to keep government out of religion, not religion out of government. If not, why did we used to use a bible under oath in our courts of law and why is IN GOD WE TRUST on our currency. People need to wake up and use some common sense about what our children are being taught."

The intention, when discussing truths that were self evident, was clearly that blacks/asians/women/etc. really didn't deserve those rights. Why else would we enslave, persecute, mistreat, and restrict the rights of these people for hundreds of years?

News flash, idiot:
Your argument is garbage. Just because a bunch of people do something for a long time does NOT mean that it's right, or intended. Individuals can practice whatever religion they choose. Government should not have any part of any of it, other that to allow complete equality in the practice or non-practice of any religion. No Bibles, no Qurans, no Mahaburatas... none of it. You cannot keep the government out of religion and at the same time force a standard of Christianity.

The prevalence of Bibles and "God statements" throughout government is simply another case of the majority steamrolling everyone else. This government is a republic to prevent exactly that sort of thing. It is wrong, in any case other than individual choice, and it will go away eventually when younger people start to get it and the bigots die off.
A fertilized egg buries itself in the uterine wall and immediately begins to rob the mother of nutrients. This means it is a living organism. Some people may call it a parasite. Even so, this definition means it would have to be a living organism.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#103779 May 16, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
A living organism it is not, until a certain stage. However, scientifically we give you the benefit and state it is considered living when the brain develops, a bit earlier than when it is technically living.
Not so. If the egg is not fertilized it will pass from the body within a few days with the menses. If it has been fertilized it attaches itself to the womb and immediately begins drawing life support from the mother. If that cord becomes detached the fetus will die. It in no way waits months to become a life. It is the very beginning of life but a life all the same.[The human fetal heart begins beating about 22-23 days after conception.(Though the heart is not yet fully formed, cardiac muscle contractions have begun.) Wiki] The heartbeat can be heard with a standard stethoscope long before the second trimester begins. A Doppler instrument can detect it much earlier.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#103780 May 16, 2013
The time life begins is supported medically,(scientifically if you must) it has nothing to do with religious belief in reality. Sorry, but a pregnant Atheist woman is just as pregnant the next morning as any God believing woman. Like it or not. In about 10 days or so, depending on her cycle length both women will begin to wonder "Could I be"?

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

London, KY

#103781 May 16, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Since the fetus is not technically alive until a certain point, it is not homicide until that point.
Just not True... You kick a woman in the belly and kill the Fetus at 2 weeks gestation and you will be arrested, tried and convicted of Homicide.... If it wasn't Human you would only be charged with Assault with bodily harm... The Fact that You can be charged with Homicide sets the precedent of being a Human Being... As Homicide is by Definition the Killing of a Human Being by another Human Being...

There are people in Jail for Homicide of a Fetus as early as 3 weeks gestation... If they are not Alive how can you charge someone for killing it?
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#103782 May 16, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you should start by
1)Stating whether you are a believer and what you believe in
2) Atheist /Agnostic
3) Other
and provide us with your answer to those questions
Then,have the AA's answer the questions,just in case they've had a change of mind.
Porta Fa Ala radeskanz LOL
Maybe, but I have far more questions than answers. I have little wisdom to spread and prefer to defer to those who have been blessed with an abundance. I’m guessing you have lots of answers, but avoid sharing them for some reason.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

#103783 May 16, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no recycling of the spirit. If a child dies before born, he or she still obtained that body. Since obtaining a body is one of the reasons that we chose to come to earth, then that part of that child's mission is over. One of the other reasons that we choose to come to earth is to have our faith in God tested. This child's faith was so strong that it's Faith did not need to be tested. They do not however, have the experience of living life on earth. There are many things on this earth that we learn that this child would not have the opportunity to learn.
Does that mean that a women that intentionally aborts a fetus it was because of the child's faith that caused the women to do so and thereby the child is not recycled back into another female? Is that correct?
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

#103784 May 16, 2013
Genesis 38:24

Tamar's pregnancy was discovered three months after conception, presumably because it was visible at that time. This was positive proof that she had been sexually active.

Because she was a widow, without a husband, she was assumed to be a prostitute. Her father-in-law Judah ordered that she be burned alive for her crime.

If Tamar's twin fetuses had been considered to be human beings, one would have expected her execution would have been delayed until after their birth. There was no condemnation on Judah for deciding to take this action.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#103785 May 16, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>Does that mean that a women that intentionally aborts a fetus it was because of the child's faith that caused the women to do so and thereby the child is not recycled back into another female? Is that correct?
No, the child's faith did not cause the mother to do anything. The Father knows the mother's intent and would choose to place the child that did not need to be tested in that mother's body. Whether the Father knew beforehand that the mother would definitely abort or not, I don't know. I don't know the mind of God. I know He knows us better than we know ourselves though.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

#103787 May 16, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the child's faith did not cause the mother to do anything. The Father knows the mother's intent and would choose to place the child that did not need to be tested in that mother's body. Whether the Father knew beforehand that the mother would definitely abort or not, I don't know. I don't know the mind of God. I know He knows us better than we know ourselves though.
Why would he choose a child that did not need to be tested in that mother's body?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#103789 May 16, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
A fertilized egg buries itself in the uterine wall and immediately begins to rob the mother of nutrients. This means it is a living organism. Some people may call it a parasite. Even so, this definition means it would have to be a living organism.
This gets us into some highly technical, uncertain territory...but the other poster was asking you basically to define life.

Sounds easy, right?

Science, the thing that tells us about reality, hasn't even settled on a precise definition of life. For example, is a virus alive?

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