Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,425

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100538 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought I had answered them pretty plainly.
Moses screwed up and caused the Hebrews 40 years of torture wandering around a wilderness. Yet several religions still revere him as one of the greatest prophets ever.
Prophets are people. They mess up too.
So if prophets are just people, then why follow their commands as if they were words from a god? Did god say homosexuality is an abomination or was that just another flawed human some called a prophet?

And yes, many still think Moses was great, so what is your point? BTW, I do not think the bible says Moses killing the followers was a mistake.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100539 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Still waiting for you to tell me the point of having an ear to god if you are such an epic failure to ask fundamental questions? BTW, clearly no one in the church was inspired by the holy ghost to find that Brigham was wrong for over a hundred years.
Sorry, but the track record of your church proves your concept a failure.
It is only human nature for followers of a religion to follow the leader. So if you put a leader on such a high pedestal as your church does, it is inevitable such problems will exist. Thus proving your church to not be true to its word. The prophet clearly and demonstrably does not have an ear to god, nor a holy ghost.
Keep trotting out these supernatural ways of finding truth and I expect you and your religion to keep making epic failures of moral reasoning.
How do you figure his opinion want much different than almost every other race? Even blacks enslaved blacks. Indians (from India), Hispanics, Europeans, and Asians all viewed blacks as a lesser race. That history is very unfortunate, but accurate, and still carries on today. Our society has focused more on equality in the last hundred years than most countries have yet focused, so our opinions are different now. But put yourself, truly, in the mind frame of 1850.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100540 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought I had answered them pretty plainly.
Moses screwed up and caused the Hebrews 40 years of torture wandering around a wilderness. Yet several religions still revere him as one of the greatest prophets ever.
"Prophets are people. They mess up too." So just how do you determine when they are messed up? Again, please tell us how you can know a screwed up prophet did not claim homosexuality is an abomination?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100541 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I fail to see you having a point?
If you claim a moral high-ground or authority as your church does and your prophet supposedly speaks to god, then you have to prove yourself better than the worst of the bunch. So far your church has proved to not even keep up with American governmental standards.
You keep failing to acknowledge this point. You keep answering the same answer even as I pointed out the failure of the answer. What is up with that? Seriously, are you having a hard time understanding this simple concept or are you being stubborn?
I guess you just don't like the answer.
It isn't my job to answer for the mistakes of someone else. I'm not an apologetic either.
I personally believe that Brigham's opinions were expressed, and someone wrote them down in shorthand as best they could, but these opinions never became doctrines of the church for a reason.
God lets us fail sometimes so we learn from it and grow stronger.
I'm sorry you don't like my answers. I'm not going to change them to please you. If you're tired of the same answer, stop asking the same question.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100542 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure his opinion want much different than almost every other race? Even blacks enslaved blacks. Indians (from India), Hispanics, Europeans, and Asians all viewed blacks as a lesser race. That history is very unfortunate, but accurate, and still carries on today. Our society has focused more on equality in the last hundred years than most countries have yet focused, so our opinions are different now. But put yourself, truly, in the mind frame of 1850.
All this tells me is that Brigham Young was no prophet of god, he was just an ignorant man. So again, are you ever going to answer the million dollar questions? Why call him a prophet? Why follow anything he says? Why did the church put his ideas in place?
How can you know homosexuality is a sin if prophets are sometimes wrong?

Also, I really think many people were not as bigoted as Brigham in his day. I am sure many were, but not everyone was as ignorant and racist as he.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100543 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Actually I do think it makes them less of a prophet. This is one reason I do not believe in any of the claimed prophets. None pass the test of having an ear to a god. I do not just hand out that trust to anyone, do you? BTW, Moses failed in a massive way. He ordered the murder of three thousand of his followers for making a golden calf. This puts in on par with Bin Laden.
Also your prophet did not just make a personal sin, he instructed the whole of the church to follow the concept that he claimed was what god wanted. And your church followed that order for over a hundred years. Now keep sweeping that under the rug.
Prophets are men, and therefore fallible. David was the most perfect (besides Christ), but even he had weaknesses. God knows we have weaknesses and He knows we will all sin, hence the need for the atonement. When we are living righteously, we are allowed to have the Spirit of God with us. Only then can revelation occur. There are times that all priesthood holders are unworthy to use the priesthood. Until we repent and become clean again, we should not use that priesthood authority. This is how it must work since we are fallible.
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100544 Apr 22, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Back when the Internet was first started the churches spread rumors that it was the antichrist. I guess that information at your finger tips is anti christian
And why do you find the internet being adjectively described as "beastly" so odd?

Do you think it's just all "good", that people just use it only for good?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100545 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you just don't like the answer.
It isn't my job to answer for the mistakes of someone else. I'm not an apologetic either.
I personally believe that Brigham's opinions were expressed, and someone wrote them down in shorthand as best they could, but these opinions never became doctrines of the church for a reason.
God lets us fail sometimes so we learn from it and grow stronger.
I'm sorry you don't like my answers. I'm not going to change them to please you. If you're tired of the same answer, stop asking the same question.
You are not answering all the questions. Like why do you know homosexuality is an abomination?
Are you telling me it was not church policy to not allow blacks into the priesthood? Or are you purposely diverting because this is not a doctrine but a policy? Again, you are just avoiding so many of my questions.
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100546 Apr 22, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation has no place in the New Testament and shouldn't have been included. That said, obsessing on all of these Bible verses, somebody is showing they have waaay too much time on their hands and waaay too little cognitive ability. Maybe you should do something productive, curious. Have you thought about taking up knitting or basket weaving? Maybe you can make plywood cutouts of duckies and horsies to sell at Flea World.
Why do think Revelations has no place in the New Testament? Where else would such a chapter be placed chroniLogically?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100547 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, in the real world we call that a hierarchy ladder.
If a prophet is no more important than a Deacon, then why did your church follow the immoral ideas of Brigham as if he were the big boss?
It is the calling that is important, not the person. If the person chosen to fill a calling is unable or unwilling, that person could easily be replaced by another and the work of God would continue.
So while a person holds that certain calling, yes they are important to us and their decisions affect us. Like our local Branch President has the authority to make changes in our branch. But I could be called as Branch President next week. Or any other member

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100548 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you just don't like the answer.
It isn't my job to answer for the mistakes of someone else. I'm not an apologetic either.
I personally believe that Brigham's opinions were expressed, and someone wrote them down in shorthand as best they could, but these opinions never became doctrines of the church for a reason.
God lets us fail sometimes so we learn from it and grow stronger.
I'm sorry you don't like my answers. I'm not going to change them to please you. If you're tired of the same answer, stop asking the same question.
So are you stronger due to your churches massive failure to treat black persons equally just as you now treat homosexuals without equality? If so, how?
And I understand you are not an apologetic as your excuses are lame, but they clearly suit yourself in order to keep faith.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100549 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>God made his stance? Really or was that a supposed prophet speaking for what he thought god wanted just as Brigham did?
Did you question your holy ghost on that?
The only difference in the two claims is, one made it into a holy book people claim is perfect.
Now lets talk about why following a holy book that people think is perfect is as problematic as following a prophet you think has an ear to a god?
Oh, and their is quite a lot of things in the OT that Christians no longer think is gods wishes. Pick and chose.
Uh no, God destroyed cities over that stance. He made it clear.

Why do you choose to pick my beliefs apart and try to shove them in my face as if I personally have done something wrong? I'm perfectly capable and willing to discuss my beliefs and listen to yours, but it seems you'd rather attack than hold a normal conversation. What gives? Did I offend you in some way?
I don't mind answering questions, but you can drop the "aha, I got you, you horrible person" act. Lets just talk reasonably dude. Calm down and put your fists away.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100550 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Prophets are men, and therefore fallible. David was the most perfect (besides Christ), but even he had weaknesses. God knows we have weaknesses and He knows we will all sin, hence the need for the atonement. When we are living righteously, we are allowed to have the Spirit of God with us. Only then can revelation occur. There are times that all priesthood holders are unworthy to use the priesthood. Until we repent and become clean again, we should not use that priesthood authority. This is how it must work since we are fallible.
So then by your reasoning, the priests or prophets that claimed homosexuality was an abomination could be absolutely wrong? You keep avoiding the hard questions, don't you?

"David was the most perfect..." How can you know? Was sending the man of to die so he could screw his wife make him just a tad less perfect than someone else? If so, then the others must have been horrible people.

Really, just how do you judge anything?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100551 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>See my last post.
How can you really know what is a sin? Do you blindly trust the words of the prophets or are you using some other measure?
If you do the former, then your earlier posts are a lie.
I know right from wrong. I learned it in my youth from my parents and so did you. I also can feel the prompting a from the Holy Ghost and can recognize His presence.
But as society changes, God doesn't. There are many laws that were given to different groups of people at different times and some that were revoked. It depends on the will of God, and the people at the time.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100552 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh no, God destroyed cities over that stance. He made it clear.
Why do you choose to pick my beliefs apart and try to shove them in my face as if I personally have done something wrong? I'm perfectly capable and willing to discuss my beliefs and listen to yours, but it seems you'd rather attack than hold a normal conversation. What gives? Did I offend you in some way?
I don't mind answering questions, but you can drop the "aha, I got you, you horrible person" act. Lets just talk reasonably dude. Calm down and put your fists away.
Please show a verse that points to god not approving of the incident in question? I think you are dead wrong.
Please point to the place I call you a horrible person? Now you are just acting delusional.
I am getting a bit impatient as you keep avoiding so many of my questions, but for some odd reason, you feel you are answering them all.

Again, for the umpteenth time, how can you know the person who claimed homosexuality was an abomination in the bible was correct or was gods thoughts?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100553 Apr 22, 2013
So if prophets are just people, then why follow their commands as if they were words from a god? Did god say homosexuality is an abomination or was that just another flawed human some called a prophet?

Can you answer this? If not, then just say so.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100554 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure his opinion want much different than almost every other race? Even blacks enslaved blacks. Indians (from India), Hispanics, Europeans, and Asians all viewed blacks as a lesser race. That history is very unfortunate, but accurate, and still carries on today. Our society has focused more on equality in the last hundred years than most countries have yet focused, so our opinions are different now. But put yourself, truly, in the mind frame of 1850.
Now if religions like yours could only keep up with the rest of society on the equality thing.
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100555 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I also worry about it, and I feel anyone promoting belief in the supernatural is promoting what the terrorist believe in. The idea of believing prophets can lead one to believe false and immoral ideas without critical thought, as in the case of Mormons following Brigham Young's ideas for a hundred years without question.
I do not think any Muslims are here debating us, so I feel to harp on it directly is not putting focus in the best direction.
I think you just disagree with some of what is being quoted, because you don't like it-it doesn't suit your perspective, which is fine, but really, to assume anything beyond that, especially that one has any idea of what anyone else "thinks" "questions" or doesn't question, is just the epitomy of ignorance.
How would any of us know what any one questioned or didn't question, in any religion, especially over hundreds of years? That just makes no sense.
Just because we don't like something, specifically, something that isn't harming OTHERS, doesn't mean we have any "right" to trash it. Again, I personally find that type of illogic, abjectly ignorant...almost like trying to "brainwash" others, into demanding they see things ONLY the way they want us to, rather than allowing for individual freedom of thoughts, choices and beliefs.
If we weren't "allowed" (and that's almost apathetic to say that-because that too is just such an unrealisTic notion) these types of freedoms, we would all be mindless robots, or we'd be living in a communistic world (God help us, living like robots.

The idea of placing anything as some sort absolute "demagogue" is scary-prophet or not, because "absolute power corrupts absolutely". I also think there is far more to terrorism than just that "supernatural belief in what's beyond", far more to it, than just that nonsense.
I think we should add an additional curriculum in schools these days on "How to recognize brainwashing for all the wrong reasons tactics 101".

It' still okay to think for oneself these days, isn't it?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100556 Apr 22, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It is the calling that is important, not the person. If the person chosen to fill a calling is unable or unwilling, that person could easily be replaced by another and the work of God would continue.
So while a person holds that certain calling, yes they are important to us and their decisions affect us. Like our local Branch President has the authority to make changes in our branch. But I could be called as Branch President next week. Or any other member
Just as I could take my bosses place next week, but today he is in a higher place of authority. We call this a hierarchy.
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100557 Apr 22, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You are not answering all the questions. Like why do you know homosexuality is an abomination?
Are you telling me it was not church policy to not allow blacks into the priesthood? Or are you purposely diverting because this is not a doctrine but a policy? Again, you are just avoiding so many of my questions.
I can't believe some people even waste a brainfart minute on stuff like this.

WHO CARES-that kind of stuff really isn't ANYONE else's business, except to those whom it pertains to.
There are people that accept that stuff and find it no flipping big deal, and then there are those who won't accept that type of stuff-just like ANY and EVERYthing else in this world.

It's the TERRORIST types in ANYHTHING, that think they have some sort of right to demand all people "behave/believe" the way THEY think they should, and when they don't, even WORSE, the twisted and warped think they have some sort of right to HARM or harass (or terrorize) others, for not believing the way that they do.
THOSE types are Sickos....no matter the race, creeds or colors of!

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