US Is Not A Christian Nation
bob

Newport, KY

#205 Feb 10, 2013
ISANYONEOUTTHERE wrote:
This discussion thread has rambled all over the place without any consistency; and by doing so, strayed from the name of the thread 'US Is Not A Christian Nation' whose inital post stated "Never was and never will be." by Never Was.
IF I were to assume you meant to pose the question "Is the US a non-Christian nation NOW"; then I would have to say NO.
Why? Because people become more ungodly every just as stated in 2 Timothy 3:3-5. "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
IF I were to assume you meant to pose the question "Was the US founded as a Christian nation"; then I must answer YES.
Why? If you go back to when outsiders (non-Indian) began migrating here you have to note that in 1620 the Puritans landed at Plymouth Rock. The Puritans WERE Christians who left Europe to escape religious persecution; and, if you consider them to be the beginning of the US, then it was indeed started on Christian principles.
There have been discussions about whether the government is, was, or has ever been on the premise of Christianity. These are off-topic as the thread title is 'US Is Not A Christian Nation'. A nation can be Christian or non-Christian irregardless of any role the govenrment my play in the mix. As a matter of fact you can have a nation of individuals without any government at all.
Why would anyone consider the Puriitans in NE the "beginning of America?" It wasn't even the first colony. That would be Jamestown, settled by the Virginia company for commercial reasons. Natural resources, mainly.

As for the Puritans, they were the persecutors, not the persecuted. The English wouldn't put up with their religious tyranny, basically.

Some of you could really stand to take a basic US history class.

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#206 Feb 10, 2013
I think it's clear in the current age that America is NOT a Christian Nation in any way for over 50% of Americans claim to be Christians but that's no way reflected in our society as far as law-making goes or how things are generally done. You would think that if the majority ruled and over 50% of people are Christian then things would be changing in a decidedly Pro-Christian direction. They aren't. Besides, to be a true Christian Nation would imply to me that everyone is a Christian, no one excluded. They aren't. And that's just fine with me
as I said above, I just want MY Right to believe or not believe however I choose too and don't care what others believe. Don't try to force yours on me and I won't mine on you. But that doesn't mean I won't speak about my beliefs whenever I want, any time I want and any place I want. I heard one of the most crazily absurd things I've ever heard in my life recently: I was told that when people say "Merry Christmas" to someone, they are FORCING their belief on others! A statement of 2 words, a mere 3 syllables when uttered is somehow FORCING personal beliefs on others. That's the most preposterous claim I've ever heard I do believe. P.C. overkill is destroying any
common sense anymore.

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#207 Feb 10, 2013
bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would anyone consider the Puriitans in NE the "beginning of America?" It wasn't even the first colony. That would be Jamestown, settled by the Virginia company for commercial reasons. Natural resources, mainly.
As for the Puritans, they were the persecutors, not the persecuted. The English wouldn't put up with their religious tyranny, basically.
Some of you could really stand to take a basic US history class.
That coming from the uneducated liar who claimed Benjamin Franklin was an Atheist earlier in this thread..which I quickly rebuked with historical fact. Maybe Bob should actually follow his own advice in this case.
bob

Newport, KY

#208 Feb 10, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
That coming from the uneducated liar who claimed Benjamin Franklin was an Atheist earlier in this thread..which I quickly rebuked with historical fact. Maybe Bob should actually follow his own advice in this case.
Are you saying New England was settled before Jamestown?

I stand corrected. Franklin was a deist, who famously said lighthouses were more useful than churches.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#209 Feb 10, 2013
bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying New England was settled before Jamestown?
I stand corrected. Franklin was a deist, who famously said lighthouses were more useful than churches.
Indeed Franklin was a Deist. Even going so far as to remove all mention of the "Supernatural" from his own personal bible.

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#210 Feb 10, 2013
bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying New England was settled before Jamestown?
I stand corrected. Franklin was a deist, who famously said lighthouses were more useful than churches.
Not at all. I know my American History and have lived in both Yorktown and Williamsburg and visit both, along with Jamestown, several times a year. I happen to agree with Franklin
on that..if he really said it, that is. After all, churches are merely buildings that host people at times and as any sensible person knows both bldgs. and people are both subject to fault and flaw, no different to anyone/anything else. The Historical Record of The United States is clear on the fact that most Founding Fathers believed in and worshiped God, period. It's the Liberal Agenda's Revisionist lies that desperately trying to erase that fact. As for
this Is or Isn't America A Christian Nation debate, I've made my opinion clear in recent posts
like #200 and #206.
bob

Newport, KY

#211 Feb 10, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. I know my American History and have lived in both Yorktown and Williamsburg and visit both, along with Jamestown, several times a year. I happen to agree with Franklin
on that..if he really said it, that is. After all, churches are merely buildings that host people at times and as any sensible person knows both bldgs. and people are both subject to fault and flaw, no different to anyone/anything else. The Historical Record of The United States is clear on the fact that most Founding Fathers believed in and worshiped God, period. It's the Liberal Agenda's Revisionist lies that desperately trying to erase that fact. As for
this Is or Isn't America A Christian Nation debate, I've made my opinion clear in recent posts
like #200 and #206.
Were you the one who claimed the Treaty of Tripoli was a forgery?
Anonymous

Dandridge, TN

#212 Feb 11, 2013
I don't know anymore
wtf

Elkhorn City, KY

#213 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
That coming from the uneducated liar who claimed Benjamin Franklin was an Atheist earlier in this thread..which I quickly rebuked with historical fact. Maybe Bob should actually follow his own advice in this case.
You are a silly little pos.
wtf

Elkhorn City, KY

#214 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. I know my American History and have lived in both Yorktown and Williamsburg and visit both, along with Jamestown, several times a year. I happen to agree with Franklin
on that..if he really said it, that is. After all, churches are merely buildings that host people at times and as any sensible person knows both bldgs. and people are both subject to fault and flaw, no different to anyone/anything else. The Historical Record of The United States is clear on the fact that most Founding Fathers believed in and worshiped God, period. It's the Liberal Agenda's Revisionist lies that desperately trying to erase that fact. As for
this Is or Isn't America A Christian Nation debate, I've made my opinion clear in recent posts
like #200 and #206.
Not true at all Stupid, the Founding Gathers were not Christians.

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#215 Feb 11, 2013
bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Were you the one who claimed the Treaty of Tripoli was a forgery?
I never said it was an outright forgery. However, it was an appeasement document meant to placate Muslims and it's original author did not scribe the "America is not a Christian Nation" part in it's original creation. That was added later by some Revisionist Muslim sympathizer apparently.
bob

Newport, KY

#216 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it was an outright forgery. However, it was an appeasement document meant to placate Muslims and it's original author did not scribe the "America is not a Christian Nation" part in it's original creation. That was added later by some Revisionist Muslim sympathizer apparently.
"Apparently," huh? So, in other words, you made it up? The TOT is as it was written. You can't even name whoever you're accusing. Pathetic.

Btw, the "original author," Thomas Jefferson, was not a Christian.

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#217 Feb 11, 2013
bob wrote:
<quoted text>
"Apparently," huh? So, in other words, you made it up? The TOT is as it was written. You can't even name whoever you're accusing. Pathetic.
Btw, the "original author," Thomas Jefferson, was not a Christian.
I already addressed all of this in Post #197, Bob. And again, you say the darnedest (and incredulous) things from your insulated Revisionist delusions. Here, maybe this will help:

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone." - Thomas Jefferson
wtf

Richmond, KY

#218 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it was an outright forgery. However, it was an appeasement document meant to placate Muslims and it's original author did not scribe the "America is not a Christian Nation" part in it's original creation. That was added later by some Revisionist Muslim sympathizer apparently.
The US is NOT a Christian Nation Stupid, in words or deeds.

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#219 Feb 11, 2013
wtf wrote:
<quoted text>The US is NOT a Christian Nation Stupid, in words or deeds.
No sh!t, dumbass..I've already made that clear in at least 5 Posts on this thread. You really are just outright stupid and clueless.
wtf

Richmond, KY

#220 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
No sh!t, dumbass..I've already made that clear in at least 5 Posts on this thread. You really are just outright stupid and clueless.
I have to keep repeating so you don't forget stupid.

lmao
lmao
lmao
bob

Newport, KY

#221 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
I already addressed all of this in Post #197, Bob. And again, you say the darnedest (and incredulous) things from your insulated Revisionist delusions. Here, maybe this will help:
"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone." - Thomas Jefferson
This is post #198, unless somebody posts before I do. IOW, 197 didn't exist when you posted this.

So, who altered the TOT, again? Be more specific than "libruls."

You can whine all you want, but it won't make any difference, so it's amusing. The theocratic bums lost, Lebowski.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#222 Feb 11, 2013
SWINE SLAYER wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it was an outright forgery. However, it was an appeasement document meant to placate Muslims and it's original author did not scribe the "America is not a Christian Nation" part in it's original creation. That was added later by some Revisionist Muslim sympathizer apparently.
It was added to the English translation, and it was this translation that John Adams, and the senate approved.; This includes article 11. So regardless of "who" wrote it, the Government agreed with it. John Admas even went so far as to add,

"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."

According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers." Lambert writes,

"By their actions, the Founding Fathers made clear that their primary concern was religious freedom, not the advancement of a state religion. Individuals, not the government, would define religious faith and practice in the United States. Thus the Founders ensured that in no official sense would America be a Christian Republic. Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.[15

SWINE SLAYER

“ALL PIGS MUST DIE”

Since: Jan 13

PULL MY PORK! ! !

#223 Feb 11, 2013
Again, I have addressed the T.O.T. several times now and where I stand on it and it's legitimate authorship. I've also stated that it's my opinion that America is not a Christian nation as well. I think anyone can see it isn't because it's definitely under a curse for it's embrace of perverse immorality and unrighteousness. Of course the Atheists will deny that but let's let the facts speak for themselves, shall we? Our economy is tanking, our deficit is ballooning, people are divided and conflicted, most of the world is at odds with us, and many people support a man that has done his best to eradicate the American Way of life and the ideals we once held sacred...and we haven't even seen the worst of what is to come yet.
Big Cat

Richmond, KY

#224 Feb 11, 2013
wtf wrote:
<quoted text>The US is NOT a Christian Nation Stupid, in words or deeds.
Like anybody...on either side... gives a flying rats azz about your opinion *LOL*

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