Blame Game

Clay City, KY

#219 Oct 26, 2013
hmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are ok with the President destroying our economy?
I bet the whaler's were not OK with John D. Rockefeller started making kerosene for pennies on the gallon, created a demand for it and distribution system and drove whale oil out of the market "the main source of lighting for the country back then.

It didn't make a dime's worth of difference what the whalers thought about ole John D. their whole existence went away within a 10 year period. You will see the same thing with coal. You will even see supposedly wise men investing in coal as it dies and investing primarily on emotion.

Go up to Millard and look at that brand new multimillion dollar coal facility that has not loaded out a coal train for months, millions of dollar facility, just built and sitting there idle. I bet the jerk that probably got fired over that brilliant idea said, well it's not my fault, Obama caused it!

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#220 Oct 26, 2013
Blame Game wrote:
While we are on the subject, most of your next election cycle will be all about the blame game. Politicians with a miners cap on and telling you Obama killed the coal industry and that they are the friends of coal and the friend of the miner and that they will help bring the coal industry back! They are blowing smoke up your butt, they can take the coal money to fund their campaign and you can give them their job back but you will be without one.
Hell you don't even see the clean coal commercials on TV anymore, it is all natural gas. January 1, 1915 just one year away coal will not meet the clean air standard for over half the coal fired power plants left. They are even shutting down the coal fired power plant in your back yard, the Power Plant down at Louisa.
Any talk about saving the coal industry and creating coal jobs is a non productive crock of bologna. Let them run their little bluegrass election jingles on the radio and tell you Obama broke it and as soon as we get rid of Obama we can fix the coal industry. Follow the money, the giant sucking sound you are hearing is the money going to natural gas, the carbon fuel that meets the 1915 clean air standards. No money for new coal fired plants, no money for scrubbers, over half the existing coal fired plants that exist today will be gone in 10 years.
Hanging on to your coal bucket and the promises of a coal friendly politician will do nothing for job creation in Pike County. Coal Severance was set up for non coal jobs by people that had the vision to see a time as we are in today. As often happens the politicians wasted a good portion of it and did not spend enough on non coal jobs as it was set up for.
For your information I detest what Obama has done to the constitution and his socialistic idea's. No matter how I feel about the man or his policies. An Obama hate fest won't create one coal job or one non coal job. Just the hard cold realization that coal is on the way out and working the problem of how to build a non coal economic future is all that matters now.
You are so right on about everything you posted here! Surely the people are not falling for ANYTHING the same politicians have stated for YEARS that they are gonna save the coal industry and now that it's GONE they want to blame someone else for it!!! NO, the blame lies on them for NOT doing their job to begin with! They knew way before the people did that coal was phasing out but instead of doing something about it like bringing in other job markets they wanna cry and tell how its someone else's fault! So they have left us no other choice but to vote for someone with new and better ideas that will put the county on the map instead of keeping the same ones in that have done NOTHING!! So what makes them any better than the ONE person they blaming??
Blame Game

Clay City, KY

#221 Oct 26, 2013
hmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
I love how people want to throw around terms like Market forces for what is happening with coal. What is happening to coal has nothing to do with natural market forces. We have a President that wants to get rid of a major US industry and people are ok with it. I just don't understand why people are ok with what the president is doing with our economy. Not just in our region but the whole US economy.
and let's look at the term Market Forces! Western Kentucky mines coal cheaper, Southern Illinois and Indiana mines coal cheaper, Wyoming mines coal cheaper than the Chinese can mine it. All the easy coal in Eastern Ky. is gone, it cost us more to mine it. The price of coal per ton is being driven down below what it takes us to mine it in many cases. THAT'S MARKET FORCES!

Coal will die a slow death, the Eastern Appalachia coal market will die first, the one we live in!
As the clean air standards get stricter and natural gas replaces our Western Ky. coal the Western Coal market will die off also. It will be more EPA driven after 2015 but right now the big problem is yes, Market Forces.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#222 Oct 26, 2013
dr phill wrote:
<quoted text>please explain how the COAL INDUSTRY is gone. when only coal mines in appalachia are facing these penalties and fines and low or non production?????
How come at least 2 mining companies are pulling out of eastern ky and opening new mines in western ky?
one in indiana????
why is it that coal companies in alabama, illinois and other non-appalachian states are hiring and producing coal????
it isnt coal
its appalachian coal, its the fact that our senators, etc dont care enough about their people to make the deals to pay off those in power.
afterall, if you dont grease the hand that feeds you, you dont get fed.
this is the way politics work, its all one big happy circle jerk, the govt, the mine owners, the epa, msha, they are all in a happy circle jerk and those who arent doing it right get kicked out of the circle.
Can you say...." Thanks to our fine politicians!" That's what happened!! You're right!! There are other mines across the country that are making good money!! The one in Alabama is going strong and have YEARS of coal to produce! So if there are any miners who are interested in a mining job and relocating, I hear the one in Alabama is the place to work!! Good pay and lots of overtime!!
Fox News Is A Joke

Pikeville, KY

#223 Oct 26, 2013
NurseLady91 wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you say...." Thanks to our fine politicians!" That's what happened!! You're right!! There are other mines across the country that are making good money!! The one in Alabama is going strong and have YEARS of coal to produce! So if there are any miners who are interested in a mining job and relocating, I hear the one in Alabama is the place to work!! Good pay and lots of overtime!!
So Obama did not kill Coal then, you Liar.
Market Forces

Clay City, KY

#224 Oct 26, 2013
dr phill wrote:
<quoted text>please explain how the COAL INDUSTRY is gone. when only coal mines in appalachia are facing these penalties and fines and low or non production?????
How come at least 2 mining companies are pulling out of eastern ky and opening new mines in western ky?
one in indiana????
why is it that coal companies in alabama, illinois and other non-appalachian states are hiring and producing coal????
it isnt coal
its appalachian coal, its the fact that our senators, etc dont care enough about their people to make the deals to pay off those in power.
afterall, if you dont grease the hand that feeds you, you dont get fed.
this is the way politics work, its all one big happy circle jerk, the govt, the mine owners, the epa, msha, they are all in a happy circle jerk and those who arent doing it right get kicked out of the circle.
Capitalism, you people rant on about socialism and don't even understand market forces. In the coal industry if you can mine it cheaper you get the contracts. Power Companies will usually buy coal for long term and short term contracts at the lowest price. That is capitalism, East Kentucky coal has become more expensive to mine, it cost more per ton to mine it. No great conspiracy going on here! We have been mining here for over 100 years and most of the easy coal is gone.
Flat land coal is cheaper for stripping also, they don't have to move a hundred feed of rock to get at the coal seam and flat land is easier to reclaim, and yes less stringent reclamation regulations. They just happen to have the geography that allows for lower mining cost. The Eastern Ky. Coal fields are just the first to go on account of market forces, after 2015 you watch the other area's fall like dominoes. We are just the first to go through the meat grinder, the others will follow in time but will be able to mine coal for years after our coal industry is shut down.
dr phill

Elkhorn City, KY

#225 Oct 26, 2013
Fox News Is A Joke wrote:
<quoted text>So Obama did not kill Coal then, you Liar.
No, I agree, Obama didnt kill coal. But why was the EPA leaning so hard on Appalachian based companies more so than anywhere else in the country??
Could it be because they had decided we would be better off here to allow fracking so that gas companies could make the big bucks???
or was it because they solely wanted to do away with surface mining??
a concept I am not totally against myself.
You never heard of these ridiculous claims and fines and regulations, etc when it was just underground mining.
I dont have the answers.
I just know that I have several relatives who are having to leave their wives and children here to go to Indiana and one to middle Ky to get jobs.
I dont understand why a company that once had around 6 mines right here in Pike county alone, now has one and is putting in 3 mines in other areas outside of Appalachia.
That company isnt going under, just going elsewhere.
Ford

Richmond, KY

#226 Oct 26, 2013
Blame Game wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet the whaler's were not OK with John D. Rockefeller started making kerosene for pennies on the gallon, created a demand for it and distribution system and drove whale oil out of the market "the main source of lighting for the country back then.
It didn't make a dime's worth of difference what the whalers thought about ole John D. their whole existence went away within a 10 year period. You will see the same thing with coal. You will even see supposedly wise men investing in coal as it dies and investing primarily on emotion.
Go up to Millard and look at that brand new multimillion dollar coal facility that has not loaded out a coal train for months, millions of dollar facility, just built and sitting there idle. I bet the jerk that probably got fired over that brilliant idea said, well it's not my fault, Obama caused it!
Its called tax invasion,from brokers.
Fox News Is A Joke

Pikeville, KY

#227 Oct 26, 2013
dr phill wrote:
<quoted text>No, I agree, Obama didnt kill coal. But why was the EPA leaning so hard on Appalachian based companies more so than anywhere else in the country??
Could it be because they had decided we would be better off here to allow fracking so that gas companies could make the big bucks???
or was it because they solely wanted to do away with surface mining??
a concept I am not totally against myself.
You never heard of these ridiculous claims and fines and regulations, etc when it was just underground mining.
I dont have the answers.
I just know that I have several relatives who are having to leave their wives and children here to go to Indiana and one to middle Ky to get jobs.
I dont understand why a company that once had around 6 mines right here in Pike county alone, now has one and is putting in 3 mines in other areas outside of Appalachia.
That company isnt going under, just going elsewhere.
Fracking has been done since the 1920 's Doofus.
Coal Fired

Clay City, KY

#230 Oct 26, 2013
dr phill wrote:
<quoted text>No, I agree, Obama didnt kill coal. But why was the EPA leaning so hard on Appalachian based companies more so than anywhere else in the country??
Could it be because they had decided we would be better off here to allow fracking so that gas companies could make the big bucks???
or was it because they solely wanted to do away with surface mining??
a concept I am not totally against myself.
You never heard of these ridiculous claims and fines and regulations, etc when it was just underground mining.
I dont have the answers.
I just know that I have several relatives who are having to leave their wives and children here to go to Indiana and one to middle Ky to get jobs.
I dont understand why a company that once had around 6 mines right here in Pike county alone, now has one and is putting in 3 mines in other areas outside of Appalachia.
That company isnt going under, just going elsewhere.
OK, one more time! Surface Reclamation is not singling out East Kentucky, or the clean water act because of who we are but where we are. The deciduous forest of Eastern Kentucky is harder and more expensive to reclaim than flat land. Wyoming, flat grass land, you put the overburden back, strike it back off flat and sow some grass seed on it. You get it close to original condition when you reclaim out there, they have the same regs it is just they are reclaiming flat grassland.
When you blow the tops off of mountains and push them over into a hollow you effect the stream in that hollow. Even in strip and long wall mining you are blasting away half the mountain and still have the problem with what are you doing with the overburden.
It is geography, flat dry land as opposed to the deciduous mountain forest of Eastern Ky. Luck of the draw, they got 80 to 100 feet thick seams of low sulfur coal laying just a few feet under flat grass land. Most of it don't even has to be run through a washer. It is a lot harder to reclaim deciduous soft and hardwood forest even if you don't have to put it back on the original contour anymore.

they are not going to let you blast and dozer off the overburden and not reclaim it, that has been over since the 50's. They are still spending millions cleaning up and reclaiming abandoned strip mine sites. That kind of stuff is what got the stricter regulations on the coal industry in the first place.
If you are one of the types that think that you can mine unregulated and just leave the mess the above won't mean much to you but the truth is, We are not being picked on or singled out. the flat landers with coal just have the easy to reclaim land.
Coal Fired

Clay City, KY

#231 Oct 26, 2013
Fox News Is A Joke wrote:
<quoted text>Fracking has been done since the 1920 's Doofus.
You make intelligent and valid post but really! Is the stupid or doofus remarks necessary. You troll every thread and soon your antagonist will be on here following you ruining this one. If you are going to post here try to stop the insulting stuff.

You know how this ends up on every thread you go to, lighten up and try to behave on this one. People are trying to work on a serious problem that effects us all, even you. You got anything constructive to add, feel free. Just watch the insulting one liners on this one. That's all we ask!

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#233 Oct 26, 2013
Coal Fired wrote:
<quoted text>
You make intelligent and valid post but really! Is the stupid or doofus remarks necessary. You troll every thread and soon your antagonist will be on here following you ruining this one. If you are going to post here try to stop the insulting stuff.
You know how this ends up on every thread you go to, lighten up and try to behave on this one. People are trying to work on a serious problem that effects us all, even you. You got anything constructive to add, feel free. Just watch the insulting one liners on this one. That's all we ask!
THANK YOU COAL FIRED!! You took the words right outta my mouth! WELL SAID :-)
Trouble in the West

Clay City, KY

#234 Oct 26, 2013
http://www.thenation.com/article/176807/recko... #

Western Coal is in trouble, the last Bureau of Land Management auction for prime coal leases failed to bring any bids. The west is just a few short years behind us in going under. We need to quit wasting time on a dead or dying industry and just stick to trying to develop the economy around non coal jobs.

When nobody shows up for a coal lease auction on the most prime piece of coal property in the country, that says it all.
We will have some coal mines for a few years, the smaller one unit mines and contractors that are more efficient that the large coal corporations but make no mistake, COAL IS OVER!
dr phill

Elkhorn City, KY

#235 Oct 26, 2013
Fox News Is A Joke wrote:
<quoted text>Fracking has been done since the 1920 's Doofus.
http://economistsview.typepad. com/economistsview/2011/10/che neys-fracking-halliburton-loop hole.html

http://www.salon.com/2011/06/27/hydrofracking...

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary...

I understand you have an issue with learning how to communicate your ideas, issues or stance on all subjects.
I understand you spend hours and hours a day reading up on every issue in case it comes up on topix, so you can interject your opinion.
I also understand that you do not know how to convey your message without name calling and childish 5th grade playground bullying and showing your lack of true intelligence.
Thank you for always being consistent.
Frick and Frack

Clay City, KY

#238 Oct 26, 2013
They have been Fracking here for years, that is natural gas industry problem not so much coal. We could explore fracking and all the negative side of it but it does not pertain to getting non-coal jobs.

It is in the crosshairs of several environmentalist groups and it does have it's detractors. It is a side issue for the gas industry and not relevant to what we are trying to do. Get non coal jobs and non coal economy in here.
Freedom of speech

Pikeville, KY

#239 Oct 26, 2013
This post is entirely my opinion.

It's a shame that we the people have no voice to be heard. The ANE seems to ignore the voice if the public and our only forum is Topix.

But in my opinion if I voice my opinion about public officials and some attorneys they choose to file law suits and litigate beyond my monetary means.

The recent lawsuit filed by William Hickman in my opinion is an attempt to squash any voice that exposes possible wrong doings of those involved.

We the people should consider why can't speak about some of the doings of the power brokers I'm our community.
Common Sense

Clay City, KY

#240 Oct 26, 2013
Freedom of speech wrote:
This post is entirely my opinion.
It's a shame that we the people have no voice to be heard. The ANE seems to ignore the voice if the public and our only forum is Topix.
But in my opinion if I voice my opinion about public officials and some attorneys they choose to file law suits and litigate beyond my monetary means.
The recent lawsuit filed by William Hickman in my opinion is an attempt to squash any voice that exposes possible wrong doings of those involved.
We the people should consider why can't speak about some of the doings of the power brokers I'm our community.
Most people know not to use full names on topix and keep it vague enough to where people may assume to know who you are talking about without naming names. We had a warning on this thread early on about powerful forces coming after individuals on this thread but if you don't leave your self wide open topix will not give out the posters names. It you are accusing politicians of graft and malfeasance and naming them on the social media you leave yourself wide open.
This is not what this thread is about, I can say the fiscal court is incompetent and without naming names it is just a generic opinion. If you start accusing officials of malfeasance and naming names you may open yourself up to litigation.
In all fairness if I were an elected official and certain parties were libelous and impugned my integrity he/she had better have the evidence or the facts to back it up.
This is not what this thread is about, non coal job creation. I don't feel a lot of the Pike County Officials will change their spots and work for non coal jobs but if they do, there job may be secure. Our main jest is not to vote for politicians that will not come out for non coal jobs and passing realistic budgets to fit the times. Not tax us to death as the coal economy goes away!

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#241 Oct 26, 2013
dr phill wrote:
<quoted text> http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsv...
http://www.salon.com/2011/06/27/hydrofracking...
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary...
I understand you have an issue with learning how to communicate your ideas, issues or stance on all subjects.
I understand you spend hours and hours a day reading up on every issue in case it comes up on topix, so you can interject your opinion.
I also understand that you do not know how to convey your message without name calling and childish 5th grade playground bullying and showing your lack of true intelligence.essage
Thank you for always being consistent.
Good message...

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#242 Oct 26, 2013
Freedom of speech wrote:
This post is entirely my opinion.
It's a shame that we the people have no voice to be heard. The ANE seems to ignore the voice if the public and our only forum is Topix.
But in my opinion if I voice my opinion about public officials and some attorneys they choose to file law suits and litigate beyond my monetary means.
The recent lawsuit filed by William Hickman in my opinion is an attempt to squash any voice that exposes possible wrong doings of those involved.
We the people should consider why can't speak about some of the doings of the power brokers I'm our community.
Well said Freedom of Speech....That's why we need to attend EVERY council meeting from here til election time to SHOW them when we go vote we WILL be voting for someone who WILL make a difference and hear our VOICES!! All they know to do is utilize their threats and scare tactics! Well its time we use our method....teaming up and demanding our voices be heard! Sorry to inform them but there's more to media than ANE!!!

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#243 Oct 26, 2013
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people know not to use full names on topix and keep it vague enough to where people may assume to know who you are talking about without naming names. We had a warning on this thread early on about powerful forces coming after individuals on this thread but if you don't leave your self wide open topix will not give out the posters names. It you are accusing politicians of graft and malfeasance and naming them on the social media you leave yourself wide open.
This is not what this thread is about, I can say the fiscal court is incompetent and without naming names it is just a generic opinion. If you start accusing officials of malfeasance and naming names you may open yourself up to litigation.
In all fairness if I were an elected official and certain parties were libelous and impugned my integrity he/she had better have the evidence or the facts to back it up.
This is not what this thread is about, non coal job creation. I don't feel a lot of the Pike County Officials will change their spots and work for non coal jobs but if they do, there job may be secure. Our main jest is not to vote for politicians that will not come out for non coal jobs and passing realistic budgets to fit the times. Not tax us to death as the coal economy goes away!
Good Message & info Common Sense

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