Museum is about religion, not science

Full story: The Indianapolis Star

The questions raised by the new Creation Museum near Cincinnati are not scientific questions.

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David Anderson

Virginia Beach, VA

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#1
Jun 3, 2007
 
Sister Wittberg:

Have you visited the creation museum? How do you explain away the credentials of the PhD's in Astrophysics, Biochemistry, Mechanical Engineering and so on that were responsible for the research behind the creation museum?

You have made a common error in mixing operational science (which can be observed empirically) with origin or historical science. All data derived from non-observed events comes with presuppositions. The same science you use to come to your position regarding the origin of the universe is used to support the museum's position.

If you are unwilling to visit the creation museum at least point your browser to www.discovery.org (the discovery institute is not affiliated in any way with the creation museum) or www.answersingenesis.org and check the bios of these scientists you refuse to acknowledge.

Wolfgang

United States

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#2
Jun 3, 2007
 
"There is no scientific question about the age of the earth or the basic outline of evolution.

No reputable scientists in these disciplines -- none -- question these basic empirical facts."

Actually, there is quite a bit of dispute about both these things, and there are a lot of reputable scientists who question those "empirical facts", though in implying people who believe in creation are closed minded, the writer of the letter appears to be doing the same thing she accuses others of doing.

The research and books are there, as are the credentials of the authors (many of whom come from Ivy-League univerisities or that caliber of background).
Sensei Kurt

New Albany, IN

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#3
Jun 3, 2007
 
And Now Virgina Tech, who is next?
When I first heard of the April 20, 1999 massacre in Littleton,
Colorado, my reaction was shock, horror, and grief -- grief over the
lives lost, grief at the suffering of the families, and grief over
what has happened to our country. Why is this happening?
An Oregon school fell victim to a murderer who with intent, went
into the school to slaughter fellow students. October of 1998, a 16-
year-old in Pearl, Mississippi killed his mother then shot 9
students, killing two of them. December of 1998, a 14-year-old boy
killed 3 students in Paducah, KY, wounding others in a student-led
prayer meeting. The "experts" consoled us that this is a rare event.
Once is an "instance," twice would be a "co-instance," three or more
establishes a "pattern." A 15-year-old girl was hanged and pummeled
by fellow students, because they feared she was going to "snitch" on
them.
In Springfield, OR, a 15-year-old murders his parents in their home,
then turns his weapons on students in his school, killing one,
critically injuring others as "he just mowed 'em down." Strangely, a
scene in Terminator II, may shed some light on "Why is this
happening?"
The Terminator was about to kill a man who was simply trying to help
the young John Conner. The Terminator was stopped by John Conner and
ordered, by Conner, not to "kill" people. The Terminator
replied, "Why?" And Conner insisted, "You just can't go around
killing people!" Again the Terminator asked, "Why?" Conner in
frustration said, "You just can't...!" Conner answered with no
foundational absolutes, which means he was only expressing his
opinion. "Why not murder?" is equally a valid question in a society
with no absolutes.
Our nation's schools have been emancipated from absolute standards
by ignoring our Creator God. Our youth are taught that we, by
chance, evolved from primordial soup. They are simply re-arranged
pond scum, with no real worth to the world, no purpose, no hope, and
no meaning what-so-ever! Is it any wonder that suicide is one of the
leading causes of death among teens? Our youth are acting
consistently with what they have been taught.
According to the Evolution belief system, human life has no more
meaning than a blade of grass. We mow our lawns, so why not mow down
our fellow man -- what's the difference? Hitler applied the same
evolutionary logic to the people of Europe. We rid our homes of
unwanted vermin, why not rid the world of unwanted humans -- what's
the difference? This atheistic/evolutionary philosophy of our day is
the logical foundation and justification for this "cruel" behavior
because there are no moral absolutes.
What is the solution? What can we do? We must expose evolution as
the pseudo-science it is, teaching our children that they are not a
conglomeration of random chance accidents, but rather are created in
the very image of God. Then we must teach our children that there
are moral standards we abide by set by our Creator God.
Jay

San Francisco, CA

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#4
Jun 3, 2007
 
Maybe people worried about the museum shouldn't go instead of freaking out over it.
absolute

United States

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#5
Jun 3, 2007
 
EVOLUTION OF EVOLUTION

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SEE HOW THESE MEN WITHOUT ANY PROOF(ONLY THEORIES) FORMED THE AVERAGE PERSONS' THINKING OF AN OLD EARTH.
Summary of the old-earth proponents for long ages

Who? Age of the earth When was this?
Comte de Buffon 78 thousand years old 1779
Abraham Werner 1 million years 1786
James Hutton Perhaps eternal 1795
Pièrre LaPlace Indefinite, long ages 1796
Jean Lamarck Long ages 1809
Georges Cuvier Untold ages 1812
Charles Lyell GEOLOGIC column 1830–1833
William Smith Untold ages 1835
Charles Darwin
Earnst Haeckel
Lord Kelvin origen of species
forged embryo art
20-100 million years mid 1800's
mid 1800's
1862–1899
Arthur Holmes 1.6 billion years 1913

NOTICE HOW FROM 1779 TO 1786, THEY WENT FROM
78,000 TO 1,000,000 YEARS. AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT!

THEN HUTTON, A WORLD RENOWNED THINKER (WHO HATED THE BIBLE) SAYS WITH NO BASIS THAT
THE WORLD WAS...QUOTE "PERHAPS ETERNAL"

THEN CHARLES LYELL(WHOSE WRITINGS DRIP WITH HATE OF THE BIBLE OFF THE PAGES) CREATED THE GEOLOGIC
COLUMN...THAT ISN'T EVEN REAL(DOESNT EXIST!!!!)BUT THE AVERAGE PERSON ACCEPTED HIS WRITINGS AS FACT CAUSE 95% OF THE POPULATION WAS NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH TO KNOW ANY BETTER.

THEN CHARLES DARWIN MADE MOST BIBLE BELIEVING CHURCH GO-ERS DOUBT THE BIBLE TIMELINE. AND MOST OF HIS WRITINGS TODAY HAVE ALL BEEN PROVEN FALSE.

TODAYS' METHODS OF DATING THE AGES OF THINGS HAVE MANY FLAWS AND ARE BASED ON THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN WHICH IS NOT EVEN REAL!!!!!

YOU CAN BELIEVE IT OR NOT.....BUT THINGS ARE NOT AS OLD AS THEY SAY THEY ARE. THERE IS NO PROOF FOR THESE AGES. ALL TEACHERS/SCIENTISTS/COLLEGE PROFESSORS/RESEARCHERS THAT ARE PAID BY OUR TAX DOLLARS(NOT PRIVATE DOLLARS) WOULD BE FIRED IF THEY SAID THE EARTH WAS 1000'S NOT MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD.

Mr. Ray

LASTLY EARNST HAECKEL FAKED EMBRYO DRAWINGS(SEE BELOW) AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT.... LEADING TO THE THOUGHT WE ALL CAME FROM ONE ORIGINAL ORGANISM. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS CONVICTED...HIS DRAWINGS ARE STILL IN TEXT BOOKS TODAY!


Top row: Haeckel’s drawings of several different embryos, showing incredible similarity in their early ‘tailbud’ stage.
Bottom Row: Richardson’s photographs of how the embryos really look at the same stage.(From left: Salmo salar, Cryptobranchus allegheniensis, Emys orbicularis, Gallus gallus, Oryctolagus cuniculus, Homo sapiens.) Many modern evolutionists no longer claim that the human embryo repeats the adult stages of its alleged evolutionary ancestors, but point to Haeckel’s drawings (top row) to claim that it repeats the embryonic stages. However, even this alleged support for evolution is now revealed as being based on faked drawings.
Markus

Irvine, CA

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#6
Jun 3, 2007
 
Looks like the Creationists are out in force.

Absolute:
Stop the copying and pasting. You obviously have no idea what you are posting. There are other drawing besides Haeckel’s that show similarities in embryonic development. Just because you see an drawing of an embryo doesn't mean it is one by Haeckel.
critical thinking

United States

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#7
Jun 3, 2007
 
absolute wrote:
EVOLUTION OF EVOLUTION
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SEE HOW THESE MEN WITHOUT ANY PROOF(ONLY THEORIES) FORMED THE AVERAGE PERSONS' THINKING OF AN OLD EARTH.
Summary of the old-earth proponents for long ages
Who? Age of the earth When was this?
Comte de Buffon 78 thousand years old 1779
Abraham Werner 1 million years 1786
James Hutton Perhaps eternal 1795
Pièrre LaPlace Indefinite, long ages 1796
Jean Lamarck Long ages 1809
Georges Cuvier Untold ages 1812
Charles Lyell GEOLOGIC column 1830–1833
William Smith Untold ages 1835
Charles Darwin
Earnst Haeckel
Lord Kelvin origen of species
forged embryo art
20-100 million years mid 1800's
mid 1800's
1862–1899
Arthur Holmes 1.6 billion years 1913
NOTICE HOW FROM 1779 TO 1786, THEY WENT FROM
78,000 TO 1,000,000 YEARS. AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT!
THEN HUTTON, A WORLD RENOWNED THINKER (WHO HATED THE BIBLE) SAYS WITH NO BASIS THAT
THE WORLD WAS...QUOTE "PERHAPS ETERNAL"
THEN CHARLES LYELL(WHOSE WRITINGS DRIP WITH HATE OF THE BIBLE OFF THE PAGES) CREATED THE GEOLOGIC
COLUMN...THAT ISN'T EVEN REAL(DOESNT EXIST!!!!)BUT THE AVERAGE PERSON ACCEPTED HIS WRITINGS AS FACT CAUSE 95% OF THE POPULATION WAS NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH TO KNOW ANY BETTER.
THEN CHARLES DARWIN MADE MOST BIBLE BELIEVING CHURCH GO-ERS DOUBT THE BIBLE TIMELINE. AND MOST OF HIS WRITINGS TODAY HAVE ALL BEEN PROVEN FALSE.
TODAYS' METHODS OF DATING THE AGES OF THINGS HAVE MANY FLAWS AND ARE BASED ON THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN WHICH IS NOT EVEN REAL!!!!!
YOU CAN BELIEVE IT OR NOT.....BUT THINGS ARE NOT AS OLD AS THEY SAY THEY ARE. THERE IS NO PROOF FOR THESE AGES. ALL TEACHERS/SCIENTISTS/COLLEGE PROFESSORS/RESEARCHERS THAT ARE PAID BY OUR TAX DOLLARS(NOT PRIVATE DOLLARS) WOULD BE FIRED IF THEY SAID THE EARTH WAS 1000'S NOT MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD.
Mr. Ray
LASTLY EARNST HAECKEL FAKED EMBRYO DRAWINGS(SEE BELOW) AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT.... LEADING TO THE THOUGHT WE ALL CAME FROM ONE ORIGINAL ORGANISM. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS CONVICTED...HIS DRAWINGS ARE STILL IN TEXT BOOKS TODAY!
Top row: Haeckel’s drawings of several different embryos, showing incredible similarity in their early ‘tailbud’ stage.
Bottom Row: Richardson’s photographs of how the embryos really look at the same stage.(From left: Salmo salar, Cryptobranchus allegheniensis, Emys orbicularis, Gallus gallus, Oryctolagus cuniculus, Homo sapiens.) Many modern evolutionists no longer claim that the human embryo repeats the adult stages of its alleged evolutionary ancestors, but point to Haeckel’s drawings (top row) to claim that it repeats the embryonic stages. However, even this alleged support for evolution is now revealed as being based on faked drawings.
The teaching of creationism in schools will undoubtedly involve examination of paradigms of both religion and science and it will not be to the benefit of religion.

Can "Prayer move mountains"? Each student should be asked to pray and then try to move a large boulder. Why do disasters strike specific individuals or communities, and are not always averted despite prayers, and why don't patients always recover despite prayers? Are the answers to these questions verifiable?

Truth in science is not absolute because scientific explanations are constantly challenged by new observational evidence. Truth in religion, although regarded as absolute by believers, is based on faith and the faith gets shaken when scientists come up with an answer (such as evolution) not anticipated by some believers.

Important lessons for our students.
Markus

Irvine, CA

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#8
Jun 3, 2007
 
David Anderson wrote:
All data derived from non-observed events comes with presuppositions. The same science you use to come to your position regarding the origin of the universe is used to support the museum's position.
AiG does NOT use the same science to support their position. They vehemently disagree that earth has even the appearance of being billions of years old. Scientific, meaning peer-reviewed and verified, evidence says otherwise.
absolute

United States

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#9
Jun 3, 2007
 
Critical thinker

This is why bad things happen according to my belief.

God has a plan that is best for the overall outcome for his kingdom
At Columbine bad things happened
But if you look at what happened from Gods perspective...many gave their lives to the Lord.
Josh Mcdowell has written hundreds of books to bring people to the lord

Natural selection was on killers t-shirt
there was a letter that said "he does not deserve the jaw evolution gave him.

God know the outcome and the greater good.

I cannot speak for God but can know with certainty that all things work for the greater good.

My dad died years ago...but I believe God had a plan for me in taking my dad. wont go into it unless you ask.

I MAY PASTE BUT IT IS MY OWN STORED UP WRITING.
David R

Cincinnati, OH

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#10
Jun 3, 2007
 
The "Creation Museum" does a big disservice to everyone by putting out so much blatantly false information. It makes their religion seem stupid, and the believers in this garbage even more stupid. A huge waste of money and time. I can't help but think that the operators of this institution are laughing all the way to the bank about what a great fraud they have committed and continue to get away with.
critical thinking

United States

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#11
Jun 3, 2007
 
absolute wrote:
Critical thinker
This is why bad things happen according to my belief.
God has a plan that is best for the overall outcome for his kingdom
At Columbine bad things happened
But if you look at what happened from Gods perspective...many gave their lives to the Lord.
Josh Mcdowell has written hundreds of books to bring people to the lord
Natural selection was on killers t-shirt
there was a letter that said "he does not deserve the jaw evolution gave him.
God know the outcome and the greater good.
I cannot speak for God but can know with certainty that all things work for the greater good.
My dad died years ago...but I believe God had a plan for me in taking my dad. wont go into it unless you ask.
I MAY PASTE BUT IT IS MY OWN STORED UP WRITING.
I mean no disrespect to you. I am also a believer, but I seperate science from my beliefs and see no conflict between the two.

Have you read any books other than the Bible? For example, have you studied biology, chemistry, physics, geology etc? Again, with due respect.
absolute

United States

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#12
Jun 3, 2007
 
I JUST LOVE THIS QUOTE FROM EINSTEIN

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
absolute

United States

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#13
Jun 3, 2007
 
3 degrees...Nursing, business, psychology
3 minors....math,english,philoso phy
absolute

United States

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#14
Jun 3, 2007
 
The moment the evolutionist goes from micro to macro-evolution...he has left science and gone to faith, for no one has ever seen one kind change to another.
What disturbs me is how they over the years have gone about proving it. I think much worse was done in the past by them than what the creation museum is doing.
See 1st post...which is by the way my stuff with some research as to the men who actually did what they did.
From Peppered moths...a lie
to huey experiment
to hinckels drawings
to too much to mention
is really a equally worse service to science that the creation museum could ever pose
you said it Sister

Indianapolis, IN

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#15
Jun 3, 2007
 
no pun intended..
Beautfiul!
Very well said and profound.
LButts

United States

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#16
Jun 3, 2007
 
In Indianapolis, there is a Museum of Superheroes. I'm not opposed to this - unless someone tries to sell it as an alternative worldview - that is, that Superheroes are REAL and explain why good things happen to us sinners. Have all the museums you want, just quit trying to say something that is as real as evolution doesn't exist because your myth is the explanation.
Markus

Irvine, CA

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#17
Jun 3, 2007
 
absolute wrote:
The moment the evolutionist goes from micro to macro-evolution...he has left science and gone to faith, for no one has ever seen one kind change to another.
What disturbs me is how they over the years have gone about proving it. I think much worse was done in the past by them than what the creation museum is doing.
See 1st post...which is by the way my stuff with some research as to the men who actually did what they did.
From Peppered moths...a lie
to huey experiment
to hinckels drawings
to too much to mention
is really a equally worse service to science that the creation museum could ever pose
Can't name anything from the last 50 years, can't you?

Besides, what is wrong with say, the moth experiment?
you said it Sister

Indianapolis, IN

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#18
Jun 3, 2007
 
absolute wrote:
Critical thinker
This is why bad things happen according to my belief.
God has a plan that is best for the overall outcome for his kingdom
At Columbine bad things happened
But if you look at what happened from Gods perspective...many gave their lives to the Lord.
Josh Mcdowell has written hundreds of books to bring people to the lord
Natural selection was on killers t-shirt
there was a letter that said "he does not deserve the jaw evolution gave him.
God know the outcome and the greater good.
I cannot speak for God but can know with certainty that all things work for the greater good.
My dad died years ago...but I believe God had a plan for me in taking my dad. wont go into it unless you ask.
I MAY PASTE BUT IT IS MY OWN STORED UP WRITING.
So becuase you think it, we should belive it?
take your word at face value becuause you say so..Sorry, My faith tells me otherwise, but that is the beauty, of Faith...
and I don't want in kool aid from you either..
you said it Sister

Indianapolis, IN

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#19
Jun 3, 2007
 
absolute wrote:
3 degrees...Nursing, business, psychology
3 minors....math,english,philoso phy
With all those degrees and minors... one would think you would be too busy to sit and post on the internet

Since: Apr 07

San Francisco, CA

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#20
Jun 3, 2007
 
David Anderson wrote:
If you are unwilling to visit the creation museum at least point your browser to www.discovery.org (the discovery institute is not affiliated in any way with the creation museum) or www.answersingenesis.org and check the bios of these scientists you refuse to acknowledge.
The Discovery Institute is committed to the teaching of intelligent design and it's campaign to get anti-evolution beliefs taught in schools. Part of their strategy is to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions." If you wanted non-biased support for the ridiculous "scientific" conclusions made by the Creation Museum this isn't the organization to turn to.

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