A royal blessing

Dressed in their Sunday best, Santa Fe area residents gathered on a cold and cloudy Tuesday morning at the courtyard of the Palace of the Governors, waiting to catch a glimpse of Spain's Crown Prince Felipe de BorbA3n y Grecia and his wife, the Princess of Asturias Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano. Full Story
Honestly

Newark, CA

#23 Oct 7, 2009
danny wrote:
<quoted text>
The Spanish started enslaving the Indians way before any killing started. Preservation of one's way of life is essential. All the killing and the hanging of Pueblo religious leaders was the tipping point. Basically said, you kill our religious leaders, we kill yours. All the mission churches that are at the pueblos were built by slave labor. And I disagree, we have far more differences than commonalities, I suppose we are all human right?
The Aztecs are a perfect example that you don't even have to be European to wage murderous, enslaving campaigns against indigenous tribes or peoples. Let's get a few things straight about the methods of conquering. Watch the movie Apocalypto if you need to clear your head.
Both sides

Albuquerque, NM

#24 Oct 7, 2009
danny wrote:
<quoted text>
The Spanish started enslaving the Indians way before any killing started. Preservation of one's way of life is essential. All the killing and the hanging of Pueblo religious leaders was the tipping point. Basically said, you kill our religious leaders, we kill yours. All the mission churches that are at the pueblos were built by slave labor. And I disagree, we have far more differences than commonalities, I suppose we are all human right?
I'm not saying the Spanish weren't worse, mostly they were, but some Indians did some killing in the early days. Expand your study of 1598-1610. Sorry, but nobody deserved to be killed, and focusing on past justifications only keeps tensions high.

Sorry you feel we are mostly different. I guess I'll go home and tell my 3 year old to prepare himself to be hated because so many people can't let go of a past that they themselves never lived through.
Moquino give it up

Santa Fe, NM

#25 Oct 7, 2009
So what is an Idiot wrote:
You are an idiot. Did you even read the article? It addresses this issue:
"It's bittersweet," Moquino (of Santa Clara Pueblo) said of the 400th anniversary and the royal visit. "We're celebrating 400 years of when the Spanish came and conquered our people and our land. When (Secretary of Cultural Affairs Stuart Ashman) was in there speaking, he said,'Bienvenidos a su tierra,' welcome to your land; and I said,'Bienvenidos a mi tierra,' welcome to my land. "
Furthermore it talks about how, "the violence between Native Americans and Spanish settlers has led to residual tensions today".
What else do you want? I agree what they did was horrible on many levels, but if you expect an apology from the Spanish you had better keep dreaming cause they're not big on apologies. Great Balanced article
Moquino isn't that the guy who was part of the Fiestas a few years ago. He's still trying to relive his days on DeVargas's staff.
Moquino get over yourself. The Four hundred Anniversay has done a great job. In fact the Governor of Tesuque spoke so elequently at the opening ceremonies.

You should take a lesson from him and learn how to speak when asked a question.

If you were so against the prince and princess visit why did you attend.

Just so you could be seen?
Ha ha

Santa Fe, NM

#26 Oct 7, 2009
One cannot choose what family or legacy one is born into...

Since: Jul 09

Kihei, HI

#29 Oct 7, 2009
In case you are wondering here is the last visit with Dave:

http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:mvideo...
Elizabeth Renant

Santa Fe, NM

#30 Oct 7, 2009
I'm glad Prince Felipe did not pretend the clash between the Pueblo peoples and the Spanish did not happen - however, I have to say that Dona Letizia, the entire time I was present, did not display the shadow of a smile, looked bored, cool, and distant (although her shoes were all one could wish from the fashionista princess). As the recipient of extraordinary privileges, including wealth, social status, lifelong security, an enviable wardrobe, and a luxurious lifestyle through marriage into what is an anachronistic remnant of the past, the least she could do is smile.

Since: Oct 08

Dent, MN

#31 Oct 7, 2009
Tribes have invaded tribes all over the world since the beginning of tribal formation several hundred thousand years ago. This resentment caused by tribal warfare seems to be a perpetual thing that causes bigotry on all sides. Can humankind transcend this? I hope so but it starts with me!

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#32 Oct 7, 2009
George Pomonis wrote:
Tribes have invaded tribes all over the world since the beginning of tribal formation several hundred thousand years ago. This resentment caused by tribal warfare seems to be a perpetual thing that causes bigotry on all sides. Can humankind transcend this? I hope so but it starts with me!
Just keep your shield up, George. Just in case.
After a while

Albuquerque, NM

#33 Oct 7, 2009
Moquino give it up wrote:
<quoted text>
Moquino isn't that the guy who was part of the Fiestas a few years ago. He's still trying to relive his days on DeVargas's staff.
Moquino get over yourself. The Four hundred Anniversay has done a great job. In fact the Governor of Tesuque spoke so elequently at the opening ceremonies.
You should take a lesson from him and learn how to speak when asked a question.
If you were so against the prince and princess visit why did you attend.
Just so you could be seen?
I get sic of hearing people like you attacking good people. For what I know about this Moquino kid, he has alot of heart and soul. I have seen him work very closely with the Pueblo Elders in Northern NM and this kid has excellent speaking skills, including an excellent historical background about the Pueblo and Hispanic people origins. So, if anyone should be getting off the high horse is you! Stop playing games by insulting a good person like Moquino who is doing alot of good work on Pueblo and Hispanic lands in our community. And if you like to continue insulting good people on the blogging system, do your history homework first before you shoot yourself in the foot, stupid one!
chatterbox87501

Rio Rancho, NM

#34 Oct 7, 2009
George Pomonis wrote:
Tribes have invaded tribes all over the world since the beginning of tribal formation several hundred thousand years ago. This resentment caused by tribal warfare seems to be a perpetual thing that causes bigotry on all sides. Can humankind transcend this? I hope so but it starts with me!
Are you sure that wassn't closer to 6000 years ago?

Anyway, an interesting point, the Spanish unwittenly made use of biological warfare with the smallpox virus.

The ones that were wronged during any invasion are dead, what they need are more Hail Mary's and less I'm sorrys.
Bill

Rio Rancho, NM

#35 Oct 7, 2009
Very Concerned Citizen wrote:
So where's bill? I thought he'd be in the photo on his hands and knees salivating all over spain's princess' feet. You know just s ucking up like bill likes to do.
...was out eatin' cheeseburgers and smokin' a cigar.
danny

Albuquerque, NM

#36 Oct 8, 2009
Honestly wrote:
<quoted text>The Aztecs are a perfect example that you don't even have to be European to wage murderous, enslaving campaigns against indigenous tribes or peoples. Let's get a few things straight about the methods of conquering. Watch the movie Apocalypto if you need to clear your head.
Have seen Apocalypto and as I recall at the end of the movie their were Spanish ships on the Horizon. Don't think you're the only intellectual around. And were not talking about Aztecs who were war like but peaceful Pueobloans who were forced to fight and kill in order to defend themselves because of the greed of the Spanish. Sounds like you need to clear your head and perhaps take a course in Pueblo Indian History

Since: Oct 08

Dent, MN

#37 Oct 8, 2009
chatterbox87501 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you sure that wassn't closer to 6000 years ago?
Anyway, an interesting point, the Spanish unwittenly made use of biological warfare with the smallpox virus.
The ones that were wronged during any invasion are dead, what they need are more Hail Mary's and less I'm sorrys.
"Are you sure that wassn't closer to 6000 years ago?" Don't start with that one again.{;-))
chatterbox87501

Los Alamos, NM

#38 Oct 8, 2009
It was 6000 years ago at the time of Christ, now it more like 8000 years ago.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#39 Oct 8, 2009
danny wrote:
<quoted text>
Have seen Apocalypto and as I recall at the end of the movie their were Spanish ships on the Horizon. Don't think you're the only intellectual around. And were not talking about Aztecs who were war like but peaceful Pueobloans who were forced to fight and kill in order to defend themselves because of the greed of the Spanish. Sounds like you need to clear your head and perhaps take a course in Pueblo Indian History
"There is evidence that perhaps an exodus occurred beginning around 1275 until the culture had shifted to the Northern portion of Jemez. However, there is evidence that perhaps the Gallina did not move voluntarily. Almost every Gallina skeleton ever found has been that of someone brutally murdered. Broken necks are the most common and the skeletons rarely appear to have been buried. Also commonly found has been remains of Gallina who were murdered, thrown into their homes, and then had the homes burned. Some of the skeletons of the murder victims have been found in the towers. The debate is ongoing for the cause of these murders. Genocide has been considered, and so has internecine. The drought could offer evidence for either. Although there is no hard evidence for either, research is ongoing and the possibilities for discoveries remain endless."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallina

Since: Oct 08

Dent, MN

#40 Oct 8, 2009
chatterbox87501 wrote:
It was 6000 years ago at the time of Christ, now it more like 8000 years ago.
How about going back to 6X10^6 million years.{:-0

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#41 Oct 8, 2009
George Pomonis wrote:
<quoted text>
How about going back to 6X10^6 million years.{:-0
We need a God. Look what 6X10^6 million years has produced. Not much in the way of intelligent life.

Since: Jul 09

Kihei, HI

#42 Oct 8, 2009
George Pomonis wrote:
<quoted text>
How about going back to 6X10^6 million years.{:-0
Are you all talking about moon years?
chatterbox87501

Los Alamos, NM

#43 Oct 8, 2009
George, I know that the Earth is 4-5 billion years old.

The motherships that brought humans to Earth didn't arrive until 8000 years ago.
danny

Albuquerque, NM

#44 Oct 8, 2009
Both sides wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not saying the Spanish weren't worse, mostly they were, but some Indians did some killing in the early days. Expand your study of 1598-1610. Sorry, but nobody deserved to be killed, and focusing on past justifications only keeps tensions high.
Sorry you feel we are mostly different. I guess I'll go home and tell my 3 year old to prepare himself to be hated because so many people can't let go of a past that they themselves never lived through.
For example, in 1675, Governor Juan Francisco Treviño ordered the arrest of forty-seven Pueblo medicine men and accused them of practicing witchcraft. Four medicine men were sentenced to death by hanging; three of those sentences were carried out, while the fourth prisoner committed suicide. The remaining men were publicly whipped and sentenced to prison. When this news reached the Pueblo leaders, they moved in force to Santa Fe, where the prisoners were held. Because a large number of Spanish soldiers were away fighting the Apache, Governor Treviño released the prisoners. Among those released was a San Juan Indian named "Popé" (also spelled Po'Pay).

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