Federal forest fees waived this weekend

Federal forest fees waived this weekend

There are 32 comments on the KRQE Albuquerque, New Mexico story from Aug 11, 2010, titled Federal forest fees waived this weekend. In it, KRQE Albuquerque, New Mexico reports that:

Three of New Mexico's national forests are waiving many recreation fees this weekend to encourage people to get out and enjoy the outdoors.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KRQE Albuquerque, New Mexico.

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1 Aug 11, 2010
Federal lands already belong to the people of the United States.

There should never be any fees for U.S. citizens.
Another

Santa Fe, NM

#2 Aug 11, 2010
Cary L Nickel wrote:
Federal lands already belong to the people of the United States.
There should never be any fees for U.S. citizens.
one wanting something for nothing.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#3 Aug 11, 2010
Another wrote:
<quoted text>
one wanting something for nothing.
Another knee-jerk response from the resident jerk who has no answers, but who has plenty of issues.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#4 Aug 11, 2010
Our taxes should pay for public lands. Our taxes are our "user fees". There should never be any others.

We don't need the Federal Government to continue to build monuments to themselves on our Federal lands. Tear them down and there will be no excuse for fees.

An outdoor experience does not need to include a visitor's center, interpretive displays, paved roads, bike paths, or footpaths. An outdoor experience does not need the amenities offered by what amounts to a group of "city folk" who claim to want to make the wilderness "accessible".

Wilderness is a rough place. Leave it that way.
LibsYourRedIsSho wing

Silver City, NM

#5 Aug 11, 2010
Fees are taxes. These are public lands and they belong to us...Let the FEDs pay to be in them
ED V

United States

#6 Aug 11, 2010
But yet u guys don't pack out what u pack in, complain when u can't find the rest room and can't read no camp fire sighn so u build one any way or better yet build it outside of the camp fire pit!

But yet we want some one to maintain the grounds and complete projects to maintain the forest from forest fires and build roads and maintain the roads 5.00 dont cover those public works.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#7 Aug 11, 2010
ED V wrote:
But yet u guys don't pack out what u pack in, complain when u can't find the rest room and can't read no camp fire sighn so u build one any way or better yet build it outside of the camp fire pit!
But yet we want some one to maintain the grounds and complete projects to maintain the forest from forest fires and build roads and maintain the roads 5.00 dont cover those public works.
When our tax monies were spent wisely, the toilets were stocked with TP, there were garbage cans everywhere, so we didn't have to pack it out, rangers were all over the backcountry, and the roads were built and maintained by the logging companies and miners at their own expense, freeing up funding for other things.

Our government has been kicking out loggers and miners, quit collecting trash in the backcountry years ago, puts nonsensical rules and restrictions on campfires, and has been building and staffing visitor centers, building parking lots, "approved attractions", and such, while leaving basic services lacking. They CHOSE to take on unnecessary projects, road maintenance, and other things that cost millions, leaving less money for other things. When was the last time you found a ranger in the backcountry?
Pryor

Denver, CO

#8 Aug 12, 2010
Couldn't put it any better Cary.
davy

Albuquerque, NM

#9 Aug 13, 2010
Those logging and mining roads are built with taxpayer money. It's called corporate welfare. When was the New Mexico backcountry filled with garbage cans and rangers? I have hiked through New Mexico for over 30 years. That is crap.
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
When our tax monies were spent wisely, the toilets were stocked with TP, there were garbage cans everywhere, so we didn't have to pack it out, rangers were all over the backcountry, and the roads were built and maintained by the logging companies and miners at their own expense, freeing up funding for other things.
Our government has been kicking out loggers and miners, quit collecting trash in the backcountry years ago, puts nonsensical rules and restrictions on campfires, and has been building and staffing visitor centers, building parking lots, "approved attractions", and such, while leaving basic services lacking. They CHOSE to take on unnecessary projects, road maintenance, and other things that cost millions, leaving less money for other things. When was the last time you found a ranger in the backcountry?

“US Navy”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#10 Aug 13, 2010
Looks like their user numbers are so poor they have to resort to giving away free days, well, not really free since we are already paying for it in our taxes. Just the user fee which is really a tax part.

They're worried because this like so many other government entities have become havens for jobs instead of useful services to the public! Poor turnout will lead to decreased funding, which will lead to losing jobs for some of the freeloaders!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#11 Aug 14, 2010
davy wrote:
Those logging and mining roads are built with taxpayer money. It's called corporate welfare. When was the New Mexico backcountry filled with garbage cans and rangers? I have hiked through New Mexico for over 30 years. That is crap.<quoted text>
I've not been limited to merely the New Mexico backcountry, but to the backcountry all over the west. I can take you to well over a dozen abandoned formerly manned backcountry Ranger Stations in New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and California, and those are merely the sites I've personally visited. I was at one such site here in New Mexico over the Independence Day weekend.
I've only lived in New Mexico since 2002, and I've found one abandoned campground in between Grants and Ramah where the trash cans havn't been emptied since they used steel pop top cans...as the steel pop top cans are still inside the trash cans and the trash cans are still chained to the trees. The picnic tables are rotting away, and the outhouse is nearly fallen over. The campsites are pretty overgrown, but were still clearly visible two years ago.
I can also take you to several sites in the Cibola National Forest where trash cans used to be, but aren't anymore.
In July, 2009, I visited the sites of no less than six former campgrounds in Nevada, in an area roughly between Mesquite, Rachel, Pioche, and the Utah border. All of the sites formerly had garbage cans. In fact, we found it humorous that at one long abandoned site where the picnic tables were rotting away, apparently some state contractor must have still had the site on his list of improvements, because they had recently installed plastic animal barriers around the places where the trash cans USED to be. When I inquired about the place with the folks that own the only restaurant along 100 miles of remote east central Nevada highway, they didn't remember the place being maintained for over 20 years. It's not on any modern paper maps..but interestingly enough it IS in the database of my Garmin car GPS...but not in the database of either my Garmin or DeLorme backcountry GPS units.
I spend about two weeks a year in the Death Valley National Park area. There is a site in the remote "Nevada Triangle" of DVNP where a buddy of mine and myself pondered the usage of some strange, alien-looking steel and cast iron structures for about 5-10 minutes while drinking a beer and sitting at a picnic table. Finally, at almost the same moment, it suddenly hit us that the devices once held trash cans up about 6 inches off the ground and at an angle. There are at least two abandoned campgrounds in Death Valley National Park that used to have trash cans. And one still open campground between the Charcoal Kilns and Telescope Peak that used to have trash cans.
And as for your assertion that "those logging and mining roads are built with taxpayer money" as some sort of "corporate welfare", you are quite incorrect.
Do some research and you will see that most of the roads that exist on our public lands pre-date the existence of any government authority over the roads in the area. Indeed, many current roads follow the routes of pre-existing wagon trails or railroad routes.
In fact, getting back to the Cibola National Forest, I can take you along several routes through the Zuni Mtns. that are right on top of old railroad routes that were NOT built with any taxpayer money whatsoever. And in the aforementioned Death Valley area, most of the routes that currently exist pre-date it's days as a National Monument, and were built by private individuals in order to access their mines. Most of the miners were kicked off of their legally held mining claims in DVNP in the 1970's due to the "Mining in the Parks Act", and that ended their involvement in road maintenance. The Park Service has since closed many of the miner's old roads due to "lack of funds".
I could provide dozens more examples, but I'm out of space.
Do your research, lest you look foolish.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#12 Aug 14, 2010
CornDogz wrote:
Looks like their user numbers are so poor they have to resort to giving away free days, well, not really free since we are already paying for it in our taxes. Just the user fee which is really a tax part.
They're worried because this like so many other government entities have become havens for jobs instead of useful services to the public! Poor turnout will lead to decreased funding, which will lead to losing jobs for some of the freeloaders!
I believe you are exactly correct.

Visitation of our public lands has been dwindling for years, after reaching a record number in around 1987. In 2009, National Park visitation reached to within a couple million of 1987 levels, but per-capita, numbers are still way down.

This coincides almost exactly with the period of time that has seen the most development, and a marked increase in user fees. In short, our government is spending more and more money building stuff to attract fewer and fewer visitors.

Entrance fees to our National Parks have increased in some cases 400 percent or more. Death Valley, as a monument in the early 1990's, had a $5 entrance fee. Today, as a National Park, the fee is $20. Grand Canyon and Zion have $25 entrance fees. Add to this the cost of campground fees, which can run from $10 to $20 a night, overpriced gasoline, groceries, gift shops, and other expenses, user fees charged to hike trails, etc. and for an average family, a weekend spent in the "wilderness" is no longer cheap.(I paid around $5.35 a gallon for regular unleaded in Death Valley National Park a few years ago.$100 to fill the tank in my Jeep Wrangler, which is still a personal record.)

When we go out there, we camp in the backcountry, which is still "free" once you pay the entrance fee, but a lot of "modern" folks aren't prepared for that kind of isolation.

At the same time, our government likes to herd remaining visitors into smaller and smaller areas. Great portions of our backcountry have been closed to visitation by government edict, as legal "wilderness areas". Thus, roads and backcountry "jeep" trails that once allowed folks to "spread out" are now gated or otherwise blocked. Thus, in many of the "U.S. Fee Areas", you pay more to see less.

Competition with television, video games, and organized sports have also lent to the decrease in backcountry visitation. Participation in hunting and fishing has been declining as well.

Look at the millions being spent to build a new BLM building here in Farmington. When I've gone to the old BLM digs to pick up a firewood permit or Christmas treee "tag", there are always plenty of people in the office...but they still only have one field law enforcement ranger for the whole district.

I'm a proponent of getting the people who manage our public lands out from behind their desks and into the seat of a 4x4 truck, so they can actually experience the lands they are responsible for. With modern "mobile office" technology, it is entirely feasible.
DOOD

Ruidoso, NM

#13 Aug 14, 2010
Cary L Nickel wrote:
Federal lands already belong to the people of the United States.
There should never be any fees for U.S. citizens.
You can camp at any non improved site anywhere in the Lincoln National Forest (and many other National Forests) for free. If you want a flat spot with a picinic table next to others in an improved camp ground you will have to pay $3.00. It seems with all you know and all of your travels, this would have been obvious. If you don't believe me, just call the local Forest office!
Watchdog1

Santa Fe, NM

#14 Aug 14, 2010
ED V wrote:
But yet u guys don't pack out what u pack in, complain when u can't find the rest room and can't read no camp fire sighn so u build one any way or better yet build it outside of the camp fire pit!
But yet we want some one to maintain the grounds and complete projects to maintain the forest from forest fires and build roads and maintain the roads 5.00 dont cover those public works.
You & I & everyone else pay taxes.Right? For What?.
When the Parks first were made there were no fees etc. What the Helle are the tax moneys used for.
You pay property tax,most places that used to covered water,sewage,trash pick-up. Now you pay extra for all those things. Some comunities even want to charge for fire dept services. And your taxes keep rising & your service keep being surcharged. Think about it.Does the term we are being screwed come to mind.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#15 Aug 14, 2010
DOOD wrote:
<quoted text>
You can camp at any non improved site anywhere in the Lincoln National Forest (and many other National Forests) for free. If you want a flat spot with a picinic table next to others in an improved camp ground you will have to pay $3.00. It seems with all you know and all of your travels, this would have been obvious. If you don't believe me, just call the local Forest office!
Seems you havn't been to the Lincoln National Forest in a while. No need to call, they post their campground fees online:

http://www.forestcamping.com/dow/southwst/lin...

They do list one campground that is free. The lowest fee is $6, but most run $10-$17 per night.

Remote, undeveloped camping is free on most public lands, where camping is allowed. I generally prefer camping in places where the rest of the world is not, so when I do camp, it's generally in remote areas.
DOOD

Ruidoso, NM

#16 Aug 14, 2010
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems you havn't been to the Lincoln National Forest in a while. No need to call, they post their campground fees online:
http://www.forestcamping.com/dow/southwst/lin...
They do list one campground that is free. The lowest fee is $6, but most run $10-$17 per night.
Remote, undeveloped camping is free on most public lands, where camping is allowed. I generally prefer camping in places where the rest of the world is not, so when I do camp, it's generally in remote areas.
I live in the Lincoln National Forest! I was making fun of you because you are crying about paying to camp. So, if you camp in remote areas why are you complaining about paying?
fscott

Rio Rancho, NM

#17 Aug 14, 2010
DOOD wrote:
<quoted text>
I live in the Lincoln National Forest! I was making fun of you because you are crying about paying to camp. So, if you camp in remote areas why are you complaining about paying?
Because she is a hypocrite and a whiner, that is why!!!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#18 Aug 14, 2010
DOOD wrote:
<quoted text>
I live in the Lincoln National Forest! I was making fun of you because you are crying about paying to camp. So, if you camp in remote areas why are you complaining about paying?
No citizen of the United States should have to pay fees to utilize our public lands.

If campgrounds are free, I still prefer camping in remote backcountry. Some of the worst camping experiences I've had were in developed campgrounds.
DOOD

Ruidoso, NM

#19 Aug 14, 2010
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
No citizen of the United States should have to pay fees to utilize our public lands.
If campgrounds are free, I still prefer camping in remote backcountry. Some of the worst camping experiences I've had were in developed campgrounds.
Good! When Obama puts you are in charge you can make that your first priority!
theresa biddle

Rio Rancho, NM

#20 Aug 14, 2010
lol

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