Rail transit: Elevated train promises...

Rail transit: Elevated train promises Honolulu a better future ...

There are 85 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Dec 1, 2009, titled Rail transit: Elevated train promises Honolulu a better future .... In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

Even Gov. Linda Lingle says she will "take her time" studying the environmental impact statement before signing off.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

fedupalready

Honolulu, HI

#61 Dec 1, 2009
BuildRailNow wrote:
<quoted text>
No fedupalready, you haven't given an alternative to the rail project's primary goal -- to provide a traffic-free way to commute across town.
And don't get started on how "locals" are so different than people the world over as to need their car on a daily basis. Check that; I'll agree that SOME people can't get along without their car on a daily basis. Who would deny that? But this project isn't and never was intended to satisfy every person. It's aimed primarily at locals who need to go from point A to point B and back to point A again at the end of the day. There are tens of thousands of people who fit that description! Today, they can't do that without immense and growing traffic congestion. With rail, they'll avoid it completely!
Do you get that? Did you get all of that? If you're Mr. points A, B, K, R and Z, rail isn't for you -- plain and simple. But for others, it's perfect.
NO RAIL is not for me nor for the others, what your the spokesperson for the thousands who you claim will ride the rail, come on? Did you call them up? You also forget to go from point A they need to ride the bus or walk, hop on the train and get to point B and then walk or ride the bus again. Well I guess they don't mind doing it on a daily basis. They took a poll way back when I think 60% wanted rail, but a very small percentage will use it. Do you get it? Have you got a hint why?
swannie

Ocean View, HI

#62 Dec 1, 2009
The reason rail is starting way out west in the old cane fields is that the developers want to use it as an advertising tool and a lever to pry out their permits from anyone who says " way too much development and way too fast".

We are almost bankrupt as a community, and a capital intensive and few jobs project is exactly what out budget doesn't need. What's the darn rush? Let's see what the final EIS says, and then wait for the governor to sign off and make a Democratic gubernatorial candidate look good. Now that's a flight of imagination that would take a LOT of pixie dust.
Hawaii Kai Resident

Honolulu, HI

#63 Dec 1, 2009
swannie wrote:
The reason rail is starting way out west in the old cane fields is that the developers want to use it as an advertising tool and a lever to pry out their permits from anyone who says " way too much development and way too fast".
We are almost bankrupt as a community, and a capital intensive and few jobs project is exactly what out budget doesn't need. What's the darn rush? Let's see what the final EIS says, and then wait for the governor to sign off and make a Democratic gubernatorial candidate look good. Now that's a flight of imagination that would take a LOT of pixie dust.
That's what you get when you rely on government to do what belongs to the free market. Feuding governors and mayors without a semblance of reason.

http://reason.org/areas/topic/302.html
So much for Aloha

Kahului, HI

#64 Dec 1, 2009
BuildRailNow wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the Mufi-hating political-grudge-holding not-exactly-objective Ben Cayetano? I thought so. I already dismissed everything he wrote, thanks but no thanks.
So if this is a moot point, give it a rest. No need to hear any more from you. The pro-rail majority in this community won't go away, however. We're here to remind readers that a majority of Oahu residents favors this project, thinks it'll be good investment.
Sorry it wasnt even a political statement by Cayetano in anyway shape or form it was just FACTS - Get real and admit defeat!
So much for Aloha

Kahului, HI

#65 Dec 1, 2009
Question wrote:
<quoted text>
You can do your part to slow down development by taking your extended family to the mainland. This way someone else will use your house and there will be no need to develop more houses.
Agree?
Sorry I do not have an extended family but have a very small family of one child and one car and try to live in a sane enviromental sound way. Also I didnt buy my house as a investment vehicle either but to live in and enjoy. Sorry to see you have so much angst.
So much for Aloha

Kahului, HI

#66 Dec 1, 2009
BuildRailNow wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the Mufi-hating political-grudge-holding not-exactly-objective Ben Cayetano? I thought so. I already dismissed everything he wrote, thanks but no thanks.
So if this is a moot point, give it a rest. No need to hear any more from you. The pro-rail majority in this community won't go away, however. We're here to remind readers that a majority of Oahu residents favors this project, thinks it'll be good investment.
I think you would be surprised their's a lot of pent up anger with the way this criminal enterprise has been forced down the taxpayers throats. You are right its a moot point as it will never be built - THATS FACT!(while you are on the subject I do not for one minute believe that their ever was or is a majority - the election was a farce!)
Local fisherman

Waipahu, HI

#67 Dec 1, 2009
Robin Hood wrote:
Look, Hannah Montana, you telling me we need to elevate a train in KAPOLEI through empty fields?
You gotta be kidding me.
You think those fields will remain empty forever? Pearl City was cane fields. Pearlridge was cane fields. Mililani was pineapple fields.

Gas isn't going to be available indefinitely. We've already passed the point of peak production and it will start to dwindle soon enough. To remain dependent on oil is to keep us dependent upon countries in the Middle East.

When gas climbs to $5 a gallon and keeps going higher what options would people have to get to work?

35 years ago it was already understood that Honolulu had the perfect transit corridor, being long and narrow. It still makes sense today. And it'll make even more sense tomorrow.
swannie

Ocean View, HI

#68 Dec 1, 2009
The "transit corridor" looks real good from 500 miles up. Consider a rainy day, trudging to the bus stop, wait. Get to the train station, wait some more. Get to your stop and find your bus, waiting some more. And finally, you get to walk some more. And don't think you can automatically find a parking spot for your car at the "Park and Ride" by the train station (look over a BART P&R lot any day, much less a rainy one). Cars will get smaller and more efficient and every person that can afford one is going to skip mass transit if they possibly can afford to.
fedupinhawaii

Honolulu, HI

#69 Dec 1, 2009
Tsarbomba wrote:
<quoted text>
The amount of time sitting in traffic has increased a lot over the years. Are you telling us this is not so? What makes you think that just because growth has slowed that traffic conditions will only get worse marginally? Back then, families usually had one car, now two or more is the expectation. It's not a 1:1 correlation between pop growth and number of cars on the road.
How much worse can you think it will be since you don't live here anymore? do people change habits, decide to move, work closer to where they live? You think they plan to develop all the lands that are empty? You are nuts and ignorant and lost touch of reality.
Pake ALice

Honolulu, HI

#70 Dec 2, 2009
Dont forget the terminals will also provide excellent shelters for the homeless.
waimea jim

United States

#71 Dec 2, 2009
Mike wrote:
Riding the actual rail cab is easy. The big problem is how to get to the rail station and what to do after you get off in order to get to your final destination.
You'll need to find one of just 4,200 parking spaces at Pearl Highlands or Aloha Stadium, wait for the train, catch it, get off at stop, walk to bus stop, wait for bus and then catch your bus to your final destination. Repeat at end of work day to get home. Most car drivers will not want to go through all these steps.
Some ideas include:
- Extend the H-1 viaduct to go over Nimitz Highway and go to downtown.
- Build the UH West Oahu campus to get cars going West-bound.
- Make Kapolei truly the second city by moving at least half of government services there so that state and city employees drive West-bound.
- Furlough state employees on days other than just Friday. Surely furlough Mondays, Tuesdays or Wednesdays can also work.
These and other ideas should be tried first before spending billions that most car drivers will not want to use.
<quoted text>
Since the Census is going to be done next year, the City should use the information on what kinds of jobs the people in West Oahu have, and make plans to move those jobs to west Oahu so these people do not have to commute.

But don't worry, half of the people that live in west Oahu will be retired by the time this proposed project is completed, and their children will have moved to the mainland.
waimea jim

United States

#72 Dec 2, 2009
Pake ALice wrote:
Dont forget the terminals will also provide excellent shelters for the homeless.
Not only that, but a feeding ground for the car thieves and crack addicts. They know that once you park your car, you will be gone for a minimum of 3 hours.
The conditions of the restrooms will deteriorate so that it will be like using a park restroom, no doors in the stalls, potential assaults while you are using the restrooms, no toilet paper, and graffiti all over the place.
Question

Honolulu, HI

#73 Dec 2, 2009
So much for Aloha wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry I do not have an extended family but have a very small family of one child and one car and try to live in a sane enviromental sound way. Also I didnt buy my house as a investment vehicle either but to live in and enjoy. Sorry to see you have so much angst.
You said no more development and I tried to personalize it for you, by explaining that new Oahu families need the housing that development provides. I am glad you got yours, but this is no reason to deny others what you are so lucky to have. Who has angst? Me who is thinking about providing shelter to the people, or you who wants them in the parks?
Interloper

Garden Grove, CA

#74 Dec 2, 2009
As a graduate of the University of Minnesota, Hannah must know what a failure the Hiawatha light rail was in Minneapolis -- about $18 per ride once the POS was built at-grade.
Chop Chop

Honolulu, HI

#75 Dec 4, 2009
waimea jim wrote:
<quoted text>Not only that, but a feeding ground for the car thieves and crack addicts. They know that once you park your car, you will be gone for a minimum of 3 hours.
The conditions of the restrooms will deteriorate so that it will be like using a park restroom, no doors in the stalls, potential assaults while you are using the restrooms, no toilet paper, and graffiti all over the place.
Ahh reminds me of the true essence of BART, oh how i do miss the urban living in
San Francisco.
Hannah in Manoa

Honolulu, HI

#76 Dec 4, 2009
Kalli wrote:
Now Hannan, how can you be a Ph.d candidate and not understand basic transportation issues. Rail will not solve traffic congestion which is what you are promoting. It will be the most expensive rail system per capita ever built in the United States or the world. It will be 30 feet up in the air including 100 yard long transit stations, can you imagine what that will look like? Please don't patronize that you are helping the residents of Ewa when in Ewa Beach the city council didn't even bother giving us a transit station so I guess they don't feel any sympathy for us.
You need to go back to school for a change of major, transportation isn't something you are capable of.
First: The data is in the Draft EIS, as I indicated. In particular, compare chapter 3 and 6. Frankly, as a loyal TheBus rider, I was shocked to learn the on-time reliability of the system is as poor as it is (because of traffic), and that this will get much worse if nothing is done, as I explained.

Second: As the Draft EIS indicates, Ewa Beach is best served by buses running from neighborhood stops over roads other than Ft. Weaver Rd. Remember what I said about every two train riders generating almost one more bus rider. The rail system is a backbone that bypasses congestion and allows TheBus to get people to their destinations on time more often

Second: The
Hannah in Manoa

Honolulu, HI

#77 Dec 4, 2009
Interloper wrote:
As a graduate of the University of Minnesota, Hannah must know what a failure the Hiawatha light rail was in Minneapolis -- about $18 per ride once the POS was built at-grade.
Funny you mention the Hiawatha LRT. Before I moved to Honolulu for my Ph.D., I used it as much as I could. For example, I would drive 90 miles from the town where I was earning my Master's, park at the airport area park-and-ride, just to use the quick and reliable train to Downtown, or even transfer to a virtual express bus to U of M. People in Minnesota love the Hiawatha line--they use it to bypass the most congested freeway in the state, and they bring their little kids on it, "just to give them the experience" of riding a train.
This fall, a commuter rail line has been opened up to the northwestern suburbs, and next is the revived Minneapolis-St. Paul Interurban,or "Central Corridor LRT." Of course, the Twin Cities was built with extra-wide streets; the streetcars were nine-feet wide, probably the widest ever built, to take advantage of the fact that Minneapolis hardly existed in 1870. It also has the advantage of being a great rail-hub; the commuter rail line is running on the busy Chicago-Seattle tracks, which BNSF keeps polished with about three freight trains an hour.
Ducksoup

Honolulu, HI

#78 Dec 4, 2009
Hannah in Manoa wrote:
<quoted text>
First: The data is in the Draft EIS, as I indicated. In particular, compare chapter 3 and 6. Frankly, as a loyal TheBus rider, I was shocked to learn the on-time reliability of the system is as poor as it is (because of traffic), and that this will get much worse if nothing is done, as I explained.
Second: As the Draft EIS indicates, Ewa Beach is best served by buses running from neighborhood stops over roads other than Ft. Weaver Rd. Remember what I said about every two train riders generating almost one more bus rider. The rail system is a backbone that bypasses congestion and allows TheBus to get people to their destinations on time more often
Second: The
Now, Hannah can you please answer how much is the per person/per capita cost for taxpayers on the full rail route offered by Mufi?
What % of Oahu uses the bus now and in year 2030 projections?
What is the % of residents who choose the freedom of driving a car on roads today?
Can Oahu afford rail in a recession?
Really

Waipahu, HI

#79 Dec 5, 2009
Hannah in Manoa wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny you mention the Hiawatha LRT. Before I moved to Honolulu for my Ph.D., I used it as much as I could. For example, I would drive 90 miles from the town where I was earning my Master's, park at the airport area park-and-ride, just to use the quick and reliable train to Downtown, or even transfer to a virtual express bus to U of M. People in Minnesota love the Hiawatha line--they use it to bypass the most congested freeway in the state, and they bring their little kids on it, "just to give them the experience" of riding a train.
This fall, a commuter rail line has been opened up to the northwestern suburbs, and next is the revived Minneapolis-St. Paul Interurban,or "Central Corridor LRT." Of course, the Twin Cities was built with extra-wide streets; the streetcars were nine-feet wide, probably the widest ever built, to take advantage of the fact that Minneapolis hardly existed in 1870. It also has the advantage of being a great rail-hub; the commuter rail line is running on the busy Chicago-Seattle tracks, which BNSF keeps polished with about three freight trains an hour.
Honolulu is unlike any cicity in the ainland, extremely small, sparsely populated and with a population of less than 1 million and lots of sprawl.
Trains are superb for transporting thousands upon thousands of people which the Leeward side of Oahu does not have. For Honolulu to get trains is like a family of four getting a 25-passenger truck for transportation which is absurd and ridiculous. The size of the population at Leeward does not warrant the use of a mass transit suitable for 10 times the population at Leeward.
In 2006, the FTA recommended Bus Rapid Transit for Honolulu in its BRT Project Evaluation Final Report.( http://www.nbrti.org/media/evaluations/Honolu... ) Among its recommendation were contra-flow dedicated BRT lanes. In its report, the FTA said" Greater benefits in terms of improving ridership, customer satisfaction, capital and
operating cost effectiveness, transit supportive land use, and environmental quality may be
possible with more significant investments in dedicated running ways, advanced vehicles,
stations, ITS elements, and fare collection."
That the city chose to ignore this recommendation and embark on a project that the people of Oahu can not afford is ludicrous.
Rail Pandemic

Wailuku, HI

#80 Dec 5, 2009
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
In 2006, the FTA recommended Bus Rapid Transit for Honolulu in its BRT Project Evaluation Final Report.( http://www.nbrti.org/media/evaluations/Honolu... )

Among its recommendation were contra-flow dedicated BRT lanes. In its report, the FTA said" Greater benefits in terms of improving ridership, customer satisfaction, capital and
operating cost effectiveness, transit supportive land use, and environmental quality may be
possible with more significant investments in dedicated running ways, advanced vehicles,
stations, ITS elements, and fare collection."

That the city chose to ignore this recommendation and embark on a project that the people of Oahu can not afford is ludicrous.
Hannah doesn't seem to want to talk about the 2006 report intended to support FTA recommendations a for Honolulu Bus Rapid Transit improvement plan.
Why not?
What was the 2006 Honolulu Bus Rapid Transit improvement cost Vs. the 2009 20-mile $5.5 billion dollar rail cost?

Why would Hannah not review the comprehensive assessment and completely ignore the capital and operating cost effectiveness for the 2006 report intended to support FTA improvement recommendations for Honolulu Bus Rapid Transit?

Why would Hannah support a heavy rail system we can't afford? Why support the 20-mile $5.5 billion dollar rail plan, building the first three miles in empty farm lands in Kapolei?

What Oahu residents will heavy rail serve in the empty farm lands of Kapolei?

January 2006:
http://www.nbrti.org/media/evaluations/Honolu...

"This evaluation of the Honolulu bus rapid transit project is intended to support FTA’s ongoing
research on bus rapid transit (BRT) project planning, development and implementation. This report presents a comprehensive assessment of the applications of BRT elements in Honolulu, per the evaluation framework outlined in the Characteristics of Bus Rapid Transit (CBRT) report. Information is presented on a broad range of applications of key elements of BRT – running ways,
stations, vehicles, fare collection, intelligent transportation systems (ITS), and service and operating plans. This evaluation also investigates system performance in several key areas, including reducing travel time, improving reliability, providing identity and a quality image, improving safety and security, and increasing capacity. The evaluation concludes with an assessment of important
system benefits, including transportation system benefits, increasing ridership, and improving capital cost effectiveness and operating efficiency and community benefits, transit-supportive development and environmental quality."

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