Senile Old Man vs.Paris News and Clique
From Experience

United States

#147 Sep 16, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>I believe the records show the purchased after 3 a.m. Regardless, I wouldn't have a problem with paying for a snack or a meal. Too much nit picking. The R3bi was a complaint for some. It was perfectly legal and had to have been discussed by the board due to the amount spent. It fell under education, not promotion. Next came complaints about Retail Attractions. This was looked at prior to the contract years ago. It fell under promotions and could also fall under industry. Next came 10% of revenue spending for promotions. Now you can see that this was also allowed spending under a type A EDC. Then came insurance which was bought years ago. No conflict of interest would exist if Frierson is not a voting member of the PEDC. Insurance covered more than Turner was stating. Snacks that can be meals. One problem after another that was brought up in a public forum by the entity that has the final say on whether the spending is allowed or not. Two entities that had to approve the budget. Two entities that had to set the bylaws under which the EDC operates. A board that is appointed by the City. Now you may see why Hashmi had to back away from his initial allegations. Look in the mirror.
Appears as if Toni is all bent out of shape by reveal of the waste and abuse of her buddy, Mr Gilbert.
Sunrise

United States

#148 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>I believe the records show the purchased after 3 a.m. Regardless, I wouldn't have a problem with paying for a snack or a meal. Too much nit picking. The R3bi was a complaint for some. It was perfectly legal and had to have been discussed by the board due to the amount spent. It fell under education, not promotion. Next came complaints about Retail Attractions. This was looked at prior to the contract years ago. It fell under promotions and could also fall under industry. Next came 10% of revenue spending for promotions. Now you can see that this was also allowed spending under a type A EDC. Then came insurance which was bought years ago. No conflict of interest would exist if Frierson is not a voting member of the PEDC. Insurance covered more than Turner was stating. Snacks that can be meals. One problem after another that was brought up in a public forum by the entity that has the final say on whether the spending is allowed or not. Two entities that had to approve the budget. Two entities that had to set the bylaws under which the EDC operates. A board that is appointed by the City. Now you may see why Hashmi had to back away from his initial allegations. Look in the mirror.
Like From Experience, I too believe that you are a PEDC board member. The biggest clue was when you referenced researching the PEDC board minutes and then you correct the time the snacks were bought from 12:00 midnight to 3:00 a.m. This is very troubling that you defend every questionable practice that we know about concerning the PEDC and state that you have no problem with PEDC employees using the credit card to buy personal items and call it nit-picking. You also don't miss an opportunity to slap the Mayor for exposing the corruption. As someone has already pointed out, it is not the cost of those snacks per se, but the pattern of abuse. PEDC board members are in a position to change this pattern but if you are a board member we probably have no hope of that happening. What is the initial allegation that you speak of the Mayor backing away from? I was not at the council meeting when the Mayor spoke on this so I am not aware that he made allegations.
hayseed

Blossom, TX

#149 Sep 17, 2013
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>Like From Experience, I too believe that you are a PEDC board member. The biggest clue was when you referenced researching the PEDC board minutes and then you correct the time the snacks were bought from 12:00 midnight to 3:00 a.m. This is very troubling that you defend every questionable practice that we know about concerning the PEDC and state that you have no problem with PEDC employees using the credit card to buy personal items and call it nit-picking. You also don't miss an opportunity to slap the Mayor for exposing the corruption. As someone has already pointed out, it is not the cost of those snacks per se, but the pattern of abuse. PEDC board members are in a position to change this pattern but if you are a board member we probably have no hope of that happening. What is the initial allegation that you speak of the Mayor backing away from? I was not at the council meeting when the Mayor spoke on this so I am not aware that he made allegations.
Hashmi was diligent in avoiding allegations.
Sunrise

United States

#150 Sep 17, 2013
hayseed wrote:
<quoted text>
Hashmi was diligent in avoiding allegations.
That's what I thought.
Reality

Paris, TX

#151 Sep 17, 2013
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>Like From Experience, I too believe that you are a PEDC board member. The biggest clue was when you referenced researching the PEDC board minutes and then you correct the time the snacks were bought from 12:00 midnight to 3:00 a.m. This is very troubling that you defend every questionable practice that we know about concerning the PEDC and state that you have no problem with PEDC employees using the credit card to buy personal items and call it nit-picking. You also don't miss an opportunity to slap the Mayor for exposing the corruption. As someone has already pointed out, it is not the cost of those snacks per se, but the pattern of abuse. PEDC board members are in a position to change this pattern but if you are a board member we probably have no hope of that happening. What is the initial allegation that you speak of the Mayor backing away from? I was not at the council meeting when the Mayor spoke on this so I am not aware that he made allegations.
Sorry you are are wrong. The biggest clue I had that you were ignorant on the subject was when you did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations. The minutes you mention were in reference to needing to check the minutes. This is available to anyone via open records. The nit picking is whining about someone buying chips, coke, and gum instead of buying a meal. The 3:30 am was mentioned in a post as being the correct time the item was purchased. Someone said they knew this from the credit card bill or receipt. It is actually irrelevant on time. There is no time set for meal reimbursements in business. My problem with the whole situation is from the misinformation and lies being spread. I attempted to set the record straight. Gilbert might be guilty of poor judgment. So is the PEDC Board and the City Council. There might be some things not right on spending. I can't tell from looking at a credit card bill. Neither can anyone posting that funds were stolen or not properly spent. You complained about the R3bi. This is one of the allowed spending for education training for a Type A EDC. Vote in Paris was for creating a Type A EDC. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. For the record, I have met Gilbert, Hashmi, Clifford, Frierson, and Strathern. I am not associated or connected to any of them. Bill is somewhat cantankerous, but I like him. I have been a supporter of the Mayor on other issues, but not how he handled this one.

There is a pattern from our Mayor concerning the PEDC. I believe this is from his ideas clashing with those of Gilbert. The Mayor wanted money spent on infrastructure. Gilbert wanted money spent on business development. This is just an attempt to discredit Gilbert. It may or may not have merit. I predict it won't matter in the long run. Gilbert will seek employment elsewhere. It is obvious he doesn't have support of the Mayor and some on his board.
JoeBobTula

Dallas, TX

#152 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry you are are wrong. The biggest clue I had that you were ignorant on the subject was when you did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations. The minutes you mention were in reference to needing to check the minutes. This is available to anyone via open records...
FOIA requests are usually not immediately fulfilled. You apparently have access to the minutes. I posit you are not a board member, rather an employee or in close relation (friend/family) to an employee/board member of the PEDC.
Old Man

United States

#153 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry you are are wrong. The biggest clue I had that you were ignorant on the subject was when you did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations. The minutes you mention were in reference to needing to check the minutes. This is available to anyone via open records. The nit picking is whining about someone buying chips, coke, and gum instead of buying a meal. The 3:30 am was mentioned in a post as being the correct time the item was purchased. Someone said they knew this from the credit card bill or receipt. It is actually irrelevant on time. There is no time set for meal reimbursements in business. My problem with the whole situation is from the misinformation and lies being spread. I attempted to set the record straight. Gilbert might be guilty of poor judgment. So is the PEDC Board and the City Council. There might be some things not right on spending. I can't tell from looking at a credit card bill. Neither can anyone posting that funds were stolen or not properly spent. You complained about the R3bi. This is one of the allowed spending for education training for a Type A EDC. Vote in Paris was for creating a Type A EDC. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. For the record, I have met Gilbert, Hashmi, Clifford, Frierson, and Strathern. I am not associated or connected to any of them. Bill is somewhat cantankerous, but I like him. I have been a supporter of the Mayor on other issues, but not how he handled this one.
There is a pattern from our Mayor concerning the PEDC. I believe this is from his ideas clashing with those of Gilbert. The Mayor wanted money spent on infrastructure. Gilbert wanted money spent on business development. This is just an attempt to discredit Gilbert. It may or may not have merit. I predict it won't matter in the long run. Gilbert will seek employment elsewhere. It is obvious he doesn't have support of the Mayor and some on his board.
I understand that Gilbert, Barrentine, and Clem are planning another big trip on the PEDC credit card for next month. Wonder if they will have any 900 meals and valet parking? More waste.
Sunrise

United States

#154 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry you are are wrong. The biggest clue I had that you were ignorant on the subject was when you did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations.
I also believe that people need correct information. That is one reason I have made corrections on this forum. I will now ask you where you got the information that I was ignorant because I did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations. I certainly never stated that they were.
Reality wrote:
The minutes you mention were in reference to needing to check the minutes. This is available to anyone via open records.
Most of us will not take the time to make an open records request for minutes but you indicated that you had the minutes available to do research. That led me to believe that you had records available to you that most of us did not have access to without an open records request.
Reality wrote:
The nit picking is whining about someone buying chips, coke, and gum instead of buying a meal. The 3:30 am was mentioned in a post as being the correct time the item was purchased. Someone said they knew this from the credit card bill or receipt. It is actually irrelevant on time. There is no time set for meal reimbursements in business.
I will agree that chips, coke and gum could be substituted for or called a meal and that the time is not important. How many meals per day should a PEDC employee be allowed to charge to taxpayers? In this case, since it was 3:30 a.m. it must have been breakfast. Do you know whether or not SG also put another breakfast on the credit card after he got to Austin? If he did, that would change the picture. It is not nit picking. It is a pattern of abuse.
Reality wrote:
My problem with the whole situation is from the misinformation and lies being spread. I attempted to set the record straight. Gilbert might be guilty of poor judgment. So is the PEDC Board and the City Council. There might be some things not right on spending. I can't tell from looking at a credit card bill. Neither can anyone posting that funds were stolen or not properly spent.
I agree that the board holds the final responsibility. At this point how can you be sure about "misinformation." Each questionable expenditure needs to be analyzed and a determination made. You have indicated that you do not know the answers when you said you could not bell from looking at the credit card bill so how are you able to say that misinformation and lies are being spread?
Reality wrote:
You complained about the R3bi. This is one of the allowed spending for education training for a Type A EDC. Vote in Paris was for creating a Type A EDC. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. For the record, I have met Gilbert, Hashmi, Clifford, Frierson, and Strathern. I am not associated or connected to any of them. Bill is somewhat cantankerous, but I like him. I have been a supporter of the Mayor on other issues, but not how he handled this one.
There is a pattern from our Mayor concerning the PEDC. I believe this is from his ideas clashing with those of Gilbert. The Mayor wanted money spent on infrastructure. Gilbert wanted money spent on business development. This is just an attempt to discredit Gilbert. It may or may not have merit. I predict it won't matter in the long run. Gilbert will seek employment elsewhere. It is obvious he doesn't have support of the Mayor and some on his board.
Citizens want good decisions made concerning taxpayer funds. We want responsible employees that do the job they were hired to do in a conscientious way. We want no wasteful spending. That is not too much to expect. You are making accusation toward the Mayor that borders on mind reading and then you say it may or may not have merit.
taxpayer

Paris, TX

#155 Sep 17, 2013
Old Man wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand that Gilbert, Barrentine, and Clem are planning another big trip on the PEDC credit card for next month. Wonder if they will have any 900 meals and valet parking? More waste.
Hopefully he will be gone by then.
Sunrise

United States

#156 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>Gilbert might be guilty of poor judgment. So is the PEDC Board and the City Council. There might be some things not right on spending.
I have noted that time and again you have attempted to shift any blame or responsibility from Gilbert to the PEDC Board and/or the City. The thought keeps coming to mind why would a board and/or a city want to keep an employee that could not make reasonable, responsible and conscientious decisions on spending and job responsibilities.
Reality

Paris, TX

#157 Sep 17, 2013
JoeBobTula wrote:
<quoted text>
FOIA requests are usually not immediately fulfilled. You apparently have access to the minutes. I posit you are not a board member, rather an employee or in close relation (friend/family) to an employee/board member of the PEDC.
Really, then you too are wrong. I don't know where you or the poster above gets that I have read minutes. I said minutes could be used to prove whether the board did approve of some of the spending. Someone then ask if they could get the minutes online or bylaws not sure which. I state through open records. Not related to any board member current or past. I do know some. I also know many on the council. Not close and no cigar. This is the same kind of guessing and speculation that leads to the wrong information being spread.
Reality

Paris, TX

#158 Sep 17, 2013
Old Man wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand that Gilbert, Barrentine, and Clem are planning another big trip on the PEDC credit card for next month. Wonder if they will have any 900 meals and valet parking? More waste.
You know more than I do. Not a clue. I'm for no waste of taxpayer funds. So far all anyone has shown are credit card bills. Now the one who brought up the problem won't talk about it any more. Does that mean there was no abuse or waste? I don't have a clue. Neither does anyone else posting. Just allegations, guesses, and wild speculation. No facts.
Miss Tree

Paris, TX

#160 Sep 17, 2013
I don't think a $700 dinner bill for 4 people takes any further explanation. As it turns out, if I read Mr. Gilbert's comments correctly, all of the 4 were local PEDC employees. Maybe it was legal, but it certainly wasn't judicious.
Reality

Paris, TX

#161 Sep 17, 2013
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>I I will now ask you where you got the information that I was ignorant because I did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations. I certainly never stated that they were. BELOW
<quoted text>Most of us will not take the time to make an open records request for minutes but you indicated that you had the minutes available to do research. That led me to believe that you had records available to you that most of us did not have access to without an open records request. BELOW
<quoted text>I will agree that chips, coke and gum could be substituted for or called a meal and that the time is not important. How many meals per day should a PEDC employee be allowed to charge to taxpayers? In this case, since it was 3:30 a.m. it must have been breakfast. Do you know whether or not SG also put another breakfast on the credit card after he got to Austin? If he did, that would change the picture. It is not nit picking. It is a pattern of abuse.
<quoted text>I You have indicated that you do not know the answers when you said you could not bell from looking at the credit card bill so how are you able to say that misinformation and lies are being spread?
.
Sunrise ASKED :I will now ask you where you got the information that I was ignorant because I did not know the Chamber and the EDC were in different locations. I certainly never stated that they were.

MY REPLY: You need to go back to thread 108 where you said the following: "I think you are confused by PEDC and C of C being in the same building. That does not make them one and the same."

SUNRISE SAID: Most of us will not take the time to make an open records request for minutes but you indicated that you had the minutes available to do research. That led me to believe that you had records available to you that most of us did not have access to without an open records request.

MY REPLY: I never said I had access to the minutes. I said in thread 93 "I haven't researched the minutes of their meetings." You asked me in thread # 108 "So you have ready access to the PEDC minutes? Where could I see some of those minutes?" I answered in thread #113 "Minutes are public record." From this you say I lead you to believe I have minutes and records. I read the news accounts that talked about EDC and bylaw changes several years ago as well as current paper and eparis accounts and pics showing expenses on credit card statements. I listen and read. I also have some knowledge.

SUNRISE ASKED: "You have indicated that you do not know the answers when you said you could not bell from looking at the credit card bill so how are you able to say that misinformation and lies are being spread?"

MY REPLY: Simple. People were saying there is abuse just from the credit card statement. Some were claiming theft. Some called it embezzlement. You even mention abuse, then backed off the coke, chips and a drink. You agree about per diem. There is no abuse if an employee is given a credit card and allowed to spend up to $7500 without any approval of expenses. I base this fact on published reports from the EDC chair and news accounts. Now I do disagree with the board giving such leeway to any employee. I don't blame the employee, I blame the boss. Boss should have been explicit on what could be spent and certainly not giving $7500 discretionary spending. Would you give your employee a credit card with up to a $7500 limit PER ITEM. You might trust the employee, but that is plumb crazy. The City Manger doesn't even have close to that discretion.
Reality

Paris, TX

#162 Sep 17, 2013
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>I have noted that time and again you have attempted to shift any blame or responsibility from Gilbert to the PEDC Board and/or the City. The thought keeps coming to mind why would a board and/or a city want to keep an employee that could not make reasonable, responsible and conscientious decisions on spending and job responsibilities.
If the spending is proven to be unreasonable, irresponsible, and not conscientious then you address it and deal with it in an appropriate manner. You just hit on my key point. Does the Mayor have the authority to do an investigation of the EDC? The code of ordinances (ART III sec 34) gives that power to the City Council for municipal affairs. Is the Mayor responsible for addressing personnel problems at either the City or the PEDC? This includes any allegations of impropriety or job performance? That power is reserved to the City Manger (Art III sec 40) for the City. Can you address personnel issues in a public forum, i.e. City Council meeting? I don't know.You would need a city employee handbook or PEDC bylaws. Should you follow the city guidelines, the investigation into muncipal afairs (assuming PEDC is under this), should have been done by the City Council. I believe the PEDC director is an officer of the PEDC. As such, enforcement is done
by the City Council for ethics or conduct violations. This is in Article IX. Criminal violations are another matter.

Reality

Paris, TX

#163 Sep 17, 2013
Miss Tree wrote:
I don't think a $700 dinner bill for 4 people takes any further explanation. As it turns out, if I read Mr. Gilbert's comments correctly, all of the 4 were local PEDC employees. Maybe it was legal, but it certainly wasn't judicious.
I would agree. Can you point out exactly where Mr. Gilbert stated the $700 dinner bill was 4 PEDC employees? I haven't read it. Thanks.
remembering

Paris, TX

#164 Sep 17, 2013
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>I have noted that time and again you have attempted to shift any blame or responsibility from Gilbert to the PEDC Board and/or the City. The thought keeps coming to mind why would a board and/or a city want to keep an employee that could not make reasonable, responsible and conscientious decisions on spending and job responsibilities.
Many have this same view. We don't need to keep him, terminate for cause and have him repay any expenss not justified!
hayseed

Blossom, TX

#165 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>You know more than I do. Not a clue. I'm for no waste of taxpayer funds. So far all anyone has shown are credit card bills. Now the one who brought up the problem won't talk about it any more. Does that mean there was no abuse or waste? I don't have a clue. Neither does anyone else posting. Just allegations, guesses, and wild speculation. No facts.
I guess I'm just not as smart as you.....
Is the fact that PEDC paid $400 to an employee's kin for a hat an "allegation, guess, or wild speculation"?
What about the bar receipt? Let me guess--Probably a wild guess?
How about the valet parking? Ummm--- SPECULATIVE ALLEGATION! By golly I got it.
In truth, I believe you have a very good clue. That's why you're spinning like a top, or is it closer to a smokescreen?
Really

Paris, TX

#166 Sep 17, 2013
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>I would agree. Can you point out exactly where Mr. Gilbert stated the $700 dinner bill was 4 PEDC employees? I haven't read it. Thanks.
3 employees and a board member. Really, come on now. A WASTE OF MONEY
Valet

Paris, TX

#167 Sep 17, 2013
hayseed wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I'm just not as smart as you.....
Is the fact that PEDC paid $400 to an employee's kin for a hat an "allegation, guess, or wild speculation"?
What about the bar receipt? Let me guess--Probably a wild guess?
How about the valet parking? Ummm--- SPECULATIVE ALLEGATION! By golly I got it.
In truth, I believe you have a very good clue. That's why you're spinning like a top, or is it closer to a smokescreen?
Valet parking can be cheaper than public parking in many instances. This is the kind of ignorance that Reality is rightfully pointing out.

And you don't buy a $25 gift card to Chili's when you're giving a gift to a visiting executive in an attempt to have them relocate their factory here. Does it really matter if they chose to buy the hat from a family member of one of the employees? Is it more impressive to buy a Stetson off of the shelf at Crazy House or Cavenders or to give a (I'm assuming) unique hand-tooled leather hat made right here in Lamar County. How many people actually make those here? I'm guessing not many, and just because it's an employees' son who happens to make it doesn't make it improper.

A little thinking before typing would go a long way here, but I guess that would go against the agenda of getting rid of Steve.

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