Did our founding fathers mean for Ame...

Did our founding fathers mean for America to be based on Christianity?

Posted in the Paris Forum

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Tara

Austin, TX

#1 Jan 6, 2013
Well?
truman

Boise, ID

#2 Jan 6, 2013
No. They took lengths to seperate Church from State with the intention of America being a Nation Free from religous persecution.
Duh mass

United States

#3 Jan 6, 2013
Yes. In that time, and given their cultural backgrounds, Christianity was the only "religion" considered. Atheism was rare, but did exist. There were no buddists, muslims, hindu, etc. observers among the drafters of our constitution. Also, Biblical principles were evident in their writings. "Separation of church and state" is a fairly modern term, and is not a constitutional premise.
Tara, I am not in any way trying to lead you to Christ: that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. I do, however, challenge you ro do 2 things:

1) Explain for each of the "10 Commandments" of the Bible that Christians read how obeying the simple commandments would either lead to a more loving population or a more violent population.

2) List the instances of mass school shootings prior to the beginning of the removal of prayer and observance of God in our schools, say pre-1960.

Please do not judge my Christ by my actions, I am not a good reflection of Him: He was perfect, I am only a recipient of His Grace. Which, by the way, makes me Hos joint heir. Why does that bother you?
hello

Paris, TX

#4 Jan 6, 2013
Duh mass wrote:
Yes. In that time, and given their cultural backgrounds, Christianity was the only "religion" considered. Atheism was rare, but did exist. There were no buddists, muslims, hindu, etc. observers among the drafters of our constitution. Also, Biblical principles were evident in their writings. "Separation of church and state" is a fairly modern term, and is not a constitutional premise.
Tara, I am not in any way trying to lead you to Christ: that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. I do, however, challenge you ro do 2 things:
1) Explain for each of the "10 Commandments" of the Bible that Christians read how obeying the simple commandments would either lead to a more loving population or a more violent population.
2) List the instances of mass school shootings prior to the beginning of the removal of prayer and observance of God in our schools, say pre-1960.
Please do not judge my Christ by my actions, I am not a good reflection of Him: He was perfect, I am only a recipient of His Grace. Which, by the way, makes me Hos joint heir. Why does that bother you?
Good post!

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#5 Jan 6, 2013
No, as evidenced by the Treaty of Tripoli, submitted by 2nd President John Adams and unanimously ratified by the Senate, which states in no unequivocal terms: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Submitted by the founding fathers and unanimously ratified by the Senate. It doesn't get more cut-and-dried than that. The US is not and has never been a Christian nation.
Tara

Austin, TX

#6 Jan 6, 2013
Duh mass wrote:
Yes. In that time, and given their cultural backgrounds, Christianity was the only "religion" considered. Atheism was rare, but did exist. There were no buddists, muslims, hindu, etc. observers among the drafters of our constitution. Also, Biblical principles were evident in their writings. "Separation of church and state" is a fairly modern term, and is not a constitutional premise.
Tara, I am not in any way trying to lead you to Christ: that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. I do, however, challenge you ro do 2 things:
1) Explain for each of the "10 Commandments" of the Bible that Christians read how obeying the simple commandments would either lead to a more loving population or a more violent population.
2) List the instances of mass school shootings prior to the beginning of the removal of prayer and observance of God in our schools, say pre-1960.
Please do not judge my Christ by my actions, I am not a good reflection of Him: He was perfect, I am only a recipient of His Grace. Which, by the way, makes me Hos joint heir. Why does that bother you?
I invite you to read what John Adams, a founding father, wrote in the Treaty of Tripoli.Here I will help:
**As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.**
I am only going to address the second question, because frankly; I am too tired to do otherwise. God was NEVER removed from schools. There are bible study groups at public schools. If anything your god is more a part of schools. Anytime someone says the pledge of the allegiance they invoke your god. This was not how our pledge was written, but somehow Christians got it added.
curious

Blossom, TX

#7 Jan 6, 2013
who were the colonists? christian puritans,nation founded upon christian principles,like it or lump it,its the truth,principles are generalities o.k.? prayer started disappearing in school in 1963

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#8 Jan 6, 2013
curious wrote:
who were the colonists? christian puritans,nation founded upon christian principles,like it or lump it,its the truth,principles are generalities o.k.? prayer started disappearing in school in 1963
You again. So are you implying that only Christian Puritans came over to settle the colonies. If so, my history textbook would like to speak to you. I can't help you with your prayers though. I never was much of one to talk to myself.
Duh mass

United States

#9 Jan 6, 2013
Your denial of God and John Adams's quotes is hardly enough to deny God's recognition be our founding fathers as a group. Collectively, they were Christ believing and serving men. I don't remember who quoted it, but you seem to love quotes by historical figures, so here's one for you: "I would rather believe what the Bible says about God and find out in the end that He does not exist than to deny Him in life to find out He truly does!" Before you go correcting me, I did paraphrase the quote. Think about it: you will not live long relative to eternity. What if God does exist, and what if the Bible is true? Would your life, either way, be wasted loving others and following a structured design plan for life? If you are wrong, and you can not "take back" your denial of God, are you able to fathon an eternity of suffering all because of pride? I submit to you to consider what the Bible says: man is separated from God because of a sinful nature that we inherited from Adam, and God alone was able to bridge that gap of separation by giving His sacrifice which we only are able to accept through faith, not earn by our own merit.

The concept of man being completely dependent on God's grace in order to be reconciled to Him is the fundamental difference that sets Christianity apart from all other religions. I understand your denial, really I do, and hope you open your heart and mind to the very real possibility that the God of Christianity made you, He loves you, and He wants a relationship with you.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#10 Jan 6, 2013
Duh mass wrote:
Your denial of God and John Adams's quotes is hardly enough to deny God's recognition be our founding fathers as a group. Collectively, they were Christ believing and serving men. I don't remember who quoted it, but you seem to love quotes by historical figures, so here's one for you: "I would rather believe what the Bible says about God and find out in the end that He does not exist than to deny Him in life to find out He truly does!" Before you go correcting me, I did paraphrase the quote. Think about it: you will not live long relative to eternity. What if God does exist, and what if the Bible is true? Would your life, either way, be wasted loving others and following a structured design plan for life? If you are wrong, and you can not "take back" your denial of God, are you able to fathon an eternity of suffering all because of pride? I submit to you to consider what the Bible says: man is separated from God because of a sinful nature that we inherited from Adam, and God alone was able to bridge that gap of separation by giving His sacrifice which we only are able to accept through faith, not earn by our own merit.
The concept of man being completely dependent on God's grace in order to be reconciled to Him is the fundamental difference that sets Christianity apart from all other religions. I understand your denial, really I do, and hope you open your heart and mind to the very real possibility that the God of Christianity made you, He loves you, and He wants a relationship with you.
The "what if god exists" scenario you proposed is called Pascal's Wager and is easily refuted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal 's_Wager#Criticism

Be a christian if you want, I don't care, just keep it out of government.
curious

Blossom, TX

#11 Jan 6, 2013
to be such deniers of Christ the people y'all seem most intent on proving it to is yourselves you must be terribly conflicted,you wont change the viewpoint of any Christian,i do wish you would study American history deeper you have missed so much and are so unaware, your blindness is astonishing...me shaking the dust from my proverbial sandals

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#12 Jan 6, 2013
curious wrote:
to be such deniers of Christ the people y'all seem most intent on proving it to is yourselves you must be terribly conflicted,you wont change the viewpoint of any Christian,i do wish you would study American history deeper you have missed so much and are so unaware, your blindness is astonishing...me shaking the dust from my proverbial sandals
The Founding Fathers also intended that black people were property and that only white land-owning males can vote. Obviously we don't go solely on what the Founding Fathers wanted for this country, because some of what they wanted was wrong.

I am not agreeing that they wanted America to be a Christian nation (anyone who understands the history of the Constitution should know that's not the case), but rather that just because the Founding Fathers wanted something doesn't mean it was the right thing for America.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#13 Jan 6, 2013
curious wrote:
to be such deniers of Christ the people y'all seem most intent on proving it to is yourselves you must be terribly conflicted,you wont change the viewpoint of any Christian,i do wish you would study American history deeper you have missed so much and are so unaware, your blindness is astonishing...me shaking the dust from my proverbial sandals
The reason we won't convince you is your not willing to learn. Or even look at the evidence presented to you. It was implied earlier that only protestant people settled America and that is flat out wrong. While your shaking out your sandals try and get some of the cobwebs out of the noggin too.
Duh mass

United States

#14 Jan 7, 2013
Jesus. Just hearing or reading His name offends many. There is a reason for this.
Duh mass

United States

#15 Jan 7, 2013
Nobody Gets It wrote:
<quoted text>
The "what if god exists" scenario you proposed is called Pascal's Wager and is easily refuted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal 's_Wager#Criticism
Be a christian if you want, I don't care, just keep it out of government.
It's funny that you feel like it is important to tell me to keep my Christ out of government: I will not obey you. You have no dominion over me.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#16 Jan 7, 2013
Duh mass wrote:
<quoted text>
It's funny that you feel like it is important to tell me to keep my Christ out of government: I will not obey you. You have no dominion over me.
Your religion has no business in my government.
tracking

Paris, TX

#17 Jan 7, 2013
They founded this country and set it up the way they did for $$$$$ in their pockets. These were very influencial, wealthy men with a vision.
Duh mass

United States

#18 Jan 7, 2013
tarabeth wrote:
<quoted text>
Your religion has no business in my government.
Oh yes, it does.
tracking

Paris, TX

#19 Jan 7, 2013
Ever hear of the Masonic Conspiracy? Interesting, to say the least.
tracking

Paris, TX

#20 Jan 7, 2013
My father and grandfather were both in the Masonic Lodge. Both were humanists, and never identified with nor joined any of the Christian churches. They considered themselves to be enlightened and progressive Masons. Check out our Masonic Founding Fathers.....history books paint many of them to be something they were not.

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