Duty To Retreat Law In Texas

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Curious

Dallas, TX

#1 Jan 8, 2013
With all the talk now about gun control and violence, I am curious about something. The information I have read on the internet is conflicting so just wondering what others think.

We all know we have the right to use deadly force if necessary to defend ourselves from an attacker.

Scenario: Someone breaks into your home after you go to bed. You hear them and grab your gun and go looking. The theif sees you and runs out the front door carrying your computer ( or whatever ). You tell him to stop but he keeps on going and flees from you. If you shoot him/her in the back and he dies, will you most likely be prosecuted for manslaughter or murder?

Does the fact that he is fleeing from you ( even though he is carrying your property ) have any bearing on your legal rights?

I , personally, could never shoot someone if he was running away but there are those who would, I think.

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Since: Jan 12

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#2 Jan 8, 2013
Curious wrote:
With all the talk now about gun control and violence, I am curious about something. The information I have read on the internet is conflicting so just wondering what others think.
We all know we have the right to use deadly force if necessary to defend ourselves from an attacker.
Scenario: Someone breaks into your home after you go to bed. You hear them and grab your gun and go looking. The theif sees you and runs out the front door carrying your computer ( or whatever ). You tell him to stop but he keeps on going and flees from you. If you shoot him/her in the back and he dies, will you most likely be prosecuted for manslaughter or murder?
Does the fact that he is fleeing from you ( even though he is carrying your property ) have any bearing on your legal rights?
I , personally, could never shoot someone if he was running away but there are those who would, I think.
Murder. If he is fleeing, i.e. there is no immediate danger to your life, and you still shoot him, you'll be charged with murder. Because shooting someone who's running away from you is murder.
castle doctrine

Paris, TX

#3 Jan 8, 2013
Twenty-seven of those deaths in 2010 were in Houston, including that of 24-year-old Benito Pantoja, who was shot and killed with a .357 Colt for $20.29 stolen from a tip jar of a Houston taco truck. Texas law always has allowed deadly force against intruders and thieves to protect lives and property, but where it once required a duty to try to retreat if possible when facing imminent danger, it no longer does, the newspaper reports.
"Traditionally, if you felt your life was threatened, you could use deadly force to protect yourself, except if you could get away safely where nobody got hurt, then you were required to do that," Sandra Thompson, a professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told the newspaper. "Even if somebody is just stealing from your front yard, and they are not threatening anybody,(and) there's no threat of being hurt at all, you can kill them, if it's reasonably necessary protecting your property.

Best advice? Go to a gun range, take gun classes,
be a good enuf shot to wound but not kill. Step down your caliber, a couple of .22's to the knee of a football player will slow him considerably.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#4 Jan 8, 2013
Curious wrote:
With all the talk now about gun control and violence, I am curious about something. The information I have read on the internet is conflicting so just wondering what others think.
We all know we have the right to use deadly force if necessary to defend ourselves from an attacker.
Scenario: Someone breaks into your home after you go to bed. You hear them and grab your gun and go looking. The theif sees you and runs out the front door carrying your computer ( or whatever ). You tell him to stop but he keeps on going and flees from you. If you shoot him/her in the back and he dies, will you most likely be prosecuted for manslaughter or murder?
Does the fact that he is fleeing from you ( even though he is carrying your property ) have any bearing on your legal rights?
I , personally, could never shoot someone if he was running away but there are those who would, I think.
Your life has to be in imminent danger. There is actually a REALLY good movie that looks into this. The movie is called Felon. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1117385/

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#5 Jan 8, 2013
castle doctrine wrote:
Twenty-seven of those deaths in 2010 were in Houston, including that of 24-year-old Benito Pantoja, who was shot and killed with a .357 Colt for $20.29 stolen from a tip jar of a Houston taco truck. Texas law always has allowed deadly force against intruders and thieves to protect lives and property, but where it once required a duty to try to retreat if possible when facing imminent danger, it no longer does, the newspaper reports.
"Traditionally, if you felt your life was threatened, you could use deadly force to protect yourself, except if you could get away safely where nobody got hurt, then you were required to do that," Sandra Thompson, a professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told the newspaper. "Even if somebody is just stealing from your front yard, and they are not threatening anybody,(and) there's no threat of being hurt at all, you can kill them, if it's reasonably necessary protecting your property.
Best advice? Go to a gun range, take gun classes,
be a good enuf shot to wound but not kill. Step down your caliber, a couple of .22's to the knee of a football player will slow him considerably.
My understanding was castle doctrine did not apply if they were fleeing.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#7 Jan 9, 2013
I stand corrected. In Texas it is legal. Not in other states.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
**(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

It is actually good to know this. Not that I ever expect to get robbed but you never know

“Ok, maybe I know a little bit.”

Since: Sep 12

But I don't know that.

#8 Jan 9, 2013
Store and homeowners shooting armed robbers are a regular news story in Houston, Even if you go a few weeks without one there may be three in a short period of time. I dont recall any of them being indicted recently. There are a couple of interesting cases from Houston, though, that are good for discussion. If you dont already know about them, look up the cases of Joe Horn and Raul Rodriguez. Joe Horn shot two men who were burglarizing his neighbor's home, and Raul Rodriguez left his home armed and went to a neighbor's house to complain about loud music and ended up killing his neighbor and shooting 2 other people. Both were on the phone with 911. I happen to agree with both decisions, but they were both very controversial and interesting.

Not gun related but also interesting, are the cases of Chad Holley (police beating case) and Abraham Joseph (police officer accused of rape.) Even with video footage one Houston police officer has already been found not guilty. Abraham Joseph was accused of raping an immigrant in the back of his police car even though the victim admitted she lied on her immigration papers. She also testified that her hands were cuffed behind her back the entire time, yet her fingerprints were found on the door handle in his back seat.
hayseed

Clarksville, TX

#9 Jan 9, 2013
Me I Know Notheeng wrote:
Store and homeowners shooting armed robbers are a regular news story in Houston, Even if you go a few weeks without one there may be three in a short period of time. I dont recall any of them being indicted recently. There are a couple of interesting cases from Houston, though, that are good for discussion. If you dont already know about them, look up the cases of Joe Horn and Raul Rodriguez. Joe Horn shot two men who were burglarizing his neighbor's home, and Raul Rodriguez left his home armed and went to a neighbor's house to complain about loud music and ended up killing his neighbor and shooting 2 other people. Both were on the phone with 911. I happen to agree with both decisions, but they were both very controversial and interesting.
Not gun related but also interesting, are the cases of Chad Holley (police beating case) and Abraham Joseph (police officer accused of rape.) Even with video footage one Houston police officer has already been found not guilty. Abraham Joseph was accused of raping an immigrant in the back of his police car even though the victim admitted she lied on her immigration papers. She also testified that her hands were cuffed behind her back the entire time, yet her fingerprints were found on the door handle in his back seat.
What about the hippies driving by real slow with their boomboxes going full-blast? OK to shoot them?
Not really

United States

#10 Jan 9, 2013
castle doctrine wrote:
Twenty-seven of those deaths in 2010 were in Houston, including that of 24-year-old Benito Pantoja, who was shot and killed with a .357 Colt for $20.29 stolen from a tip jar of a Houston taco truck. Texas law always has allowed deadly force against intruders and thieves to protect lives and property, but where it once required a duty to try to retreat if possible when facing imminent danger, it no longer does, the newspaper reports.
"Traditionally, if you felt your life was threatened, you could use deadly force to protect yourself, except if you could get away safely where nobody got hurt, then you were required to do that," Sandra Thompson, a professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told the newspaper. "Even if somebody is just stealing from your front yard, and they are not threatening anybody,(and) there's no threat of being hurt at all, you can kill them, if it's reasonably necessary protecting your property.
Best advice? Go to a gun range, take gun classes,
be a good enuf shot to wound but not kill. Step down your caliber, a couple of .22's to the knee of a football player will slow him considerably.
thats a bad idea. I personally think if you shoot someone who is fleeing you are a heartless murderer. No piece of property is worth someone's life. But don't dial down your caliber of weapon if you actually have to shoot someone you want to immediately stop any aggressive behavior. Wounded criminals sue innocent homeowners and business owners all the time It takes less than 3 seconds for an aggressor to travel 21 ft if in the attack mode so big caliber and center of mass shoot to stop
Hoodwink

United States

#11 Jan 9, 2013
Gun control is a very complicated issue. If guns were never invented, then maybe there would be less murders. But this is 2013, and we strive to progress with new inventions and ideas everyday. We cannot go back in time to change anything, but we can change what we do today.
If the government passes strict gun control laws, it will only disarm the people who obey the law and the people who only use guns to protect their life, family, and property.
The violent criminals will still keep their guns, and use them for criminal activities.

Change yourself, don't steal or burglarize, or cause bodily harm, and in return, I will not shoot you.

Respect one another.
Curious

Dallas, TX

#12 Jan 9, 2013
Nobody Gets It wrote:
<quoted text>
Murder. If he is fleeing, i.e. there is no immediate danger to your life, and you still shoot him, you'll be charged with murder. Because shooting someone who's running away from you is murder.
I agree.
BBHC

Ripe, UK

#13 Jan 9, 2013
hayseed wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the hippies driving by real slow with their boomboxes going full-blast? OK to shoot them?
Hippies? Really?
Curious

Dallas, TX

#14 Jan 9, 2013
I just don't see how shooting someone in the back ( for stealing and then running ) could be considered anything but murder.

If someone was in danger of being killed or violently attacked , raped, or otherwise in a situation that would cause death , then I say shoot to kill. But if someone is fleeing, then they are no longer a threat so shooting in the back would be murder.

Self defense is the only thing to consider in a situation where someone is trying to kill you.

JMO

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#15 Jan 9, 2013
Curious wrote:
I just don't see how shooting someone in the back ( for stealing and then running ) could be considered anything but murder.
If someone was in danger of being killed or violently attacked , raped, or otherwise in a situation that would cause death , then I say shoot to kill. But if someone is fleeing, then they are no longer a threat so shooting in the back would be murder.
Self defense is the only thing to consider in a situation where someone is trying to kill you.
JMO
Not that I disagree with you but it seems the way the law is written that the person who was just robbed may interpret it as the robber running towards a weapon.

“Ok, maybe I know a little bit.”

Since: Sep 12

But I don't know that.

#16 Jan 9, 2013
hayseed wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the hippies driving by real slow with their boomboxes going full-blast? OK to shoot them?
Hmmm. I would say in Harris county if you had a really good lawyer you might could get by with shooting some thugs or illegal but maybe not hippies :) I really dont know how that would play. So many things are up to chance. What assistant da takes the call on whether or not to accept charges, grand jury, and then no one can ever be certain what a jury will do.
Haha

Dallas, TX

#17 Jan 9, 2013
Most hippies would now be in their 70's or even 80's. Somehow, I just don't feel threatened by a hippie. lol
nofear

Paris, TX

#18 Jan 9, 2013
Curious wrote:
I just don't see how shooting someone in the back ( for stealing and then running ) could be considered anything but murder.
If someone was in danger of being killed or violently attacked , raped, or otherwise in a situation that would cause death , then I say shoot to kill. But if someone is fleeing, then they are no longer a threat so shooting in the back would be murder.
Self defense is the only thing to consider in a situation where someone is trying to kill you.
JMO
To me if you steal my stuff and I see you even if you are running away tou should be able to kill them. That might deter theft if they think they may acr=tually die. A thief deserve death even if shot in the back.
nofear

Paris, TX

#19 Jan 9, 2013
Truly one of our main problems of our time is everytime a crook runs and tries to get away -they place others lives in danger. People continually run from the police in cars sometime for hours over hundreds of miles all the while placing innocent peoples life in danger. Omly to finally pull over and give up - thinking it was OK and don't deserve to be beating with a billy club. I think the police should be able to use deadly force when pursuing someone for more than a minute or two. I think it would end eveyone running except for those wanting to die by assisted suicide nuts.
crzzzd

Rochester, PA

#21 Jan 9, 2013
youtube.com/watch...
Win Some.Lose Some
Make my Day Law in Penna,,,we shot to kill here people

“Ok, maybe I know a little bit.”

Since: Sep 12

But I don't know that.

#23 Jan 9, 2013
Nobody Gets It wrote:
<quoted text>
I think a much bigger problem in society is assholes like you that think that killing people or beating them senseless with a billy club is the answer to society's problems. I hope no one ever shows the casual indifference to your life that you seem to show for others'.
Did you happen to eat watch the Chad Holley video? First police officer tried acquitted.

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