Understanding the Fiscal Cliff (In 2 ...

Understanding the Fiscal Cliff (In 2 Minutes 30 Seconds)

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#1 Dec 4, 2012

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honey

Paris, TX

#2 Dec 4, 2012
We, the American people, can do nothing about this!!! Our Congress and representatives have caused this big mess, we are just the suckers who will pay the price. Sick of every bit of it!!!!
Not really

United States

#3 Dec 4, 2012
My solution is to storm the congress occupy the halls of congress. An old fashioned sit in protest the lack of actual work accomplished by our representatives and senators. Constantly picket and protest
Confused

Garland, TX

#4 Dec 5, 2012
I keep hearing "fair share"......can someone tell me the definition of "fair share".

Personally, to me the term "fair share" means might mean that everyone pays X% of their income in taxes. If its 15%, if its 35%, everyone pays the same %.

But it doesn't seam that is "fair" because its not what people are saying. It seems we only want the wealthy to pay their "fair share" and other to pay "No share".

What am I missing?

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what

Paris, TX

#5 Dec 5, 2012
Confused wrote:
I keep hearing "fair share"......can someone tell me the definition of "fair share".
Personally, to me the term "fair share" means might mean that everyone pays X% of their income in taxes. If its 15%, if its 35%, everyone pays the same %.
But it doesn't seam that is "fair" because its not what people are saying. It seems we only want the wealthy to pay their "fair share" and other to pay "No share".
What am I missing?
You will keep paying nothing. Your boss might pay 5% more in taxes. It's pretty simple.
Sunrise

Euless, TX

#6 Dec 5, 2012
what wrote:
<quoted text>You will keep paying nothing. Your boss might pay 5% more in taxes. It's pretty simple.
You did not answer the question. The question is "what is a fair share?" If five people are sharing an apple pie in a fair way, wouldn't you cut the pieces the same size? Your explaination of one person paying 5% MORE and another person paying zero does not sound fair to me.
what

Paris, TX

#7 Dec 5, 2012
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>You did not answer the question. The question is "what is a fair share?" If five people are sharing an apple pie in a fair way, wouldn't you cut the pieces the same size? Your explaination of one person paying 5% MORE and another person paying zero does not sound fair to me.
If I take 20% of the Burger King fry cooks money he is probably going to starve to death. Now the fry cook is going to need more government assistance to live. If I take 15% of a billionaires yearly income he might not be able to get a second gold toilet to shit in that goes in his beach house he has never been to. Sunriser, I know its hard for you to understand, because you have never heard anything but fox news. If they let the Bush tax cuts expire then that just puts them at the rate they should have been at all along. They would be paying a lot less then they were 20 years ago still. I don't feel sorry for rich people like you do. They are raping you every time you go to the gas station. When you go to pump gas do you like it when the Brothers Koch take turns on you and your family. They are high fiving each other while you are bent over your car hood. And while they are shipwrecking your b-hole you are telling them how unfair it is that they are going find more loopholes to not pay taxes and to keep taking government handouts. You poor poor thing you.
Inbetween the zones

United States

#8 Dec 5, 2012
what wrote:
<quoted text>If I take 20% of the Burger King fry cooks money he is probably going to starve to death. Now the fry cook is going to need more government assistance to live. If I take 15% of a billionaires yearly income he might not be able to get a second gold toilet to shit in that goes in his beach house he has never been to. Sunriser, I know its hard for you to understand, because you have never heard anything but fox news. If they let the Bush tax cuts expire then that just puts them at the rate they should have been at all along. They would be paying a lot less then they were 20 years ago still. I don't feel sorry for rich people like you do. They are raping you every time you go to the gas station. When you go to pump gas do you like it when the Brothers Koch take turns on you and your family. They are high fiving each other while you are bent over your car hood. And while they are shipwrecking your b-hole you are telling them how unfair it is that they are going find more loopholes to not pay taxes and to keep taking government handouts. You poor poor thing you.
If employers have to pay more then they will cut jobs and it does take wealthy people to make jobs and that is called free enterprise. The background of your post is about raping and sodomy is this what you fear the most in your life. You can make a statement without such vulgarity. You slammed me on another post in the same way. I believe the question of what is a fair price is a good one. "What is Fair" and mostly Why is fairness not the same for everyone? Have a great day.
what

Paris, TX

#9 Dec 5, 2012
Inbetween the zones wrote:
<quoted text> If employers have to pay more then they will cut jobs and it does take wealthy people to make jobs and that is called free enterprise. The background of your post is about raping and sodomy is this what you fear the most in your life. You can make a statement without such vulgarity. You slammed me on another post in the same way. I believe the question of what is a fair price is a good one. "What is Fair" and mostly Why is fairness not the same for everyone? Have a great day.
You ever heard the term "life isn't fair"? What is fair is what everyone can stand to pay. It would be different for every single person alive. Now, since we can't do it that way because every single person would have a different percentage to pay, then its not fair for anyone involved. So I say, let the billionaires pay at least my percentage, but they are not going to, they would really freak out if they paid my rate. So, let them pay the rate they are suppose to pay. Remember the tax rate hasn't changed at all, they have been getting a government assisted break on their taxes, and its time for it to run out. That sounds kind of fair. And if me TALKING about you being raped is worse than being raped by Koch, you have more problems than worrying about tax rates. You should worry about why Koch raping you doesn't bother you. They raped you, I just brought it up, but you are mad at me? Problem?
Sunrise

Euless, TX

#10 Dec 5, 2012
what wrote:
<quoted text>If I take 20% of the Burger King fry cooks money he is probably going to starve to death. Now the fry cook is going to need more government assistance to live. If I take 15% of a billionaires yearly income he might not be able to get a second gold toilet to shit in that goes in his beach house he has never been to. Sunriser, I know its hard for you to understand, because you have never heard anything but fox news. If they let the Bush tax cuts expire then that just puts them at the rate they should have been at all along. They would be paying a lot less then they were 20 years ago still. I don't feel sorry for rich people like you do. They are raping you every time you go to the gas station. When you go to pump gas do you like it when the Brothers Koch take turns on you and your family. They are high fiving each other while you are bent over your car hood. And while they are shipwrecking your b-hole you are telling them how unfair it is that they are going find more loopholes to not pay taxes and to keep taking government handouts. You poor poor thing you.
I agree with the percents and the fry cooks but you are aiming your anger at the wrong person. It is your man, obama, that keeps saying over and over that the "rich" needs to pay their fair share. Fair share means dividing equally. Place your anger on your president, not me. Listen to what he says and watch what he does.
Sunrise

Euless, TX

#11 Dec 5, 2012
what wrote:
<quoted text>You ever heard the term "life isn't fair"? What is fair is what everyone can stand to pay. It would be different for every single person alive. Now, since we can't do it that way because every single person would have a different percentage to pay, then its not fair for anyone involved.
That is not what obama is saying. Are we supposed to believe what he is saying or do we just make up a definition like you have just done? Obama chooses his words carefully so as to create the most class warfare and racial divide. That is the name of his game.
what wrote:
So I say, let the billionaires pay at least my percentage, but they are not going to, they would really freak out if they paid my rate. So, let them pay the rate they are suppose to pay. Remember the tax rate hasn't changed at all, they have been getting a government assisted break on their taxes, and its time for it to run out. That sounds kind of fair.
This is a classic example of the class warfare that has been created. Go to the IRS site and do some research instead of listening to liberal media. You will find that billionaires pay what is listed on the schedules (35% currently) on earned income. I suspect that you pay a lower percent. They also pay 14% on unearned income - the same amount that you pay. Look at the real numbers from the official site and you will see that what you have said makes no sense.
Concerned

United States

#12 Dec 5, 2012
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>That is not what obama is saying. Are we supposed to believe what he is saying or do we just make up a definition like you have just done? Obama chooses his words carefully so as to create the most class warfare and racial divide. That is the name of his game. <quoted text>This is a classic example of the class warfare that has been created. Go to the IRS site and do some research instead of listening to liberal media. You will find that billionaires pay what is listed on the schedules (35% currently) on earned income. I suspect that you pay a lower percent. They also pay 14% on unearned income - the same amount that you pay. Look at the real numbers from the official site and you will see that what you have said makes no sense.
Very interesting Sunrise and I do agree with you completely. Lots of wealthy also have the choice of giving to a tax shelter, donations to hundreds of thousands of non profit organizations which make everyone's lives better. Look at what Bill Gates did. Most really wealthy people know they have more money than they themselves could ever possible spend and they do give back and try to create jobs and do donate. Obama has in fact tried to define the wealthy as evil wicked and bad for the USA when their just not. History itself will tell you that. Perhaps their are a few examples contradictory to that but not a lot.

I have read that a second recession is looming over the grid lock in middle class tax cuts. I know we were helped threw the first recession by just borrowing and printing and bailing out, now I wonder what we will do in this next one when we are losing credibility as a Nation in the world economic scene. I voted against Obama even though I did like some of his social views but wonder if he actually only used those to bring in more votes himself. He is quite the speaker and does selectively choose each word he says as you mentioned and tells the mass's what they want to hear. Unfortunately the majority of the population can not see his flaws that his father instilled in him. He quoted his father as saying you should tax the wealthy 100% if it need be so all will be equal. That would be extremely foolish. There has been talk of cutting Social Security from the Very Wealthy but that is only 4% of the population and most probably give more back to society than they would draw. This is an interesting topic even though I have not done the research you have Sunshine. Have a great day.
Confused

Sumner, TX

#13 Dec 5, 2012
So "fair" is relative? Fair doesn't mean everyone paying the same %, fair means everyone paying what someone else thinks is fair.

I think one of the things missing from this conversation is the concept of taxable income vs. earned income. Sunrise hits the nail on the head.

Talk about fair:

"Rich" guy has earned taxable income of $250,000 a year pays $67,000 (using 2011 rates) for an average rate of 27%.

This same rich guy has $100,000 investment income, call it capital gains on the sale of something he owns, pays at a rate of 20% for a tax of $20,000.

This blended tax rate is 25% ON THE SURFACE. But don't forget, "rich" dude has already paid earned income tax on that $100,000 he invested. Assuming he was taxed at the same blended 27%, he paid $27,000 on that $100,000 of earnings, so he effectively paid 33%.

The Burger king worker most likely will be paying tax at a somewhere under 15% average tax rate.

So in conclusion, <15% vs 33% is not fair with the rich guy getting an unfair shake?

What you good with this version of fair?
cash

Clarksville, TX

#14 Dec 5, 2012
give me a beer
Confused

Sumner, TX

#15 Dec 5, 2012
cash wrote:
give me a beer
Ok, but you know you have to pay tax on that beer as well!!!!!
We are screwed

Germany

#16 Dec 5, 2012
What I'm seeing makes me concerned. It appears to me that Boener and the Repub leadership is in bed with Obama pretty much. What I see is parties and politicians on both sides more interested in their own power than actually doing what is BEST for ALL Americans! Boener and his cronies scuddled just about any and all Republicans who have been "guilty" of trying to duly represent the BEST interests of our country.....something that is the base core of the Tea Party for the most part. I don't believe they ( politicians ) really want to do what is needed. I believe they are afraid of the "moochers,leeches, and entitlement" crowd and fear they will "riot" if they get taken off some of the government t i t that we the taxpayers support with OUR money. I say, take them off the t i t and give them the choice of working or going to a camp with other rats. Time is short for saving this nation.....and WE will have to do it instead of relying on spineless, gonadless politicians.
jeff

Paris, TX

#17 Dec 6, 2012
What needs to be mentioned is that the rich guys, for the most part, got rich because they are smart. They are smart enough to figure out how to get YOUR money. The bankers, wall street, the doctors, the insurance people, the CEO's hell even Bill Gates. They screwed us! They are the rule makers and they played the rules to make more than their fair share. Time to screw em back I say!
Sunrise

Euless, TX

#18 Dec 6, 2012
jeff wrote:
What needs to be mentioned is that the rich guys, for the most part, got rich because they are smart. They are smart enough to figure out how to get YOUR money. The bankers, wall street, the doctors, the insurance people, the CEO's hell even Bill Gates. They screwed us! They are the rule makers and they played the rules to make more than their fair share. Time to screw em back I say!
Think real hard for a few minutes. What would the US be like if we eliminate all bankers, wall street, the doctors, the insurance people and the CEOs? Would you be impacted by not having any bankers, no wall street, no doctors, no insurance people and no CEOs?
Confused

Sumner, TX

#19 Dec 6, 2012
jeff wrote:
What needs to be mentioned is that the rich guys, for the most part, got rich because they are smart. They are smart enough to figure out how to get YOUR money. The bankers, wall street, the doctors, the insurance people, the CEO's hell even Bill Gates. They screwed us! They are the rule makers and they played the rules to make more than their fair share. Time to screw em back I say!
I am confused on how they screwed us. Bill Gates was smart enough to develop Microsoft. He sold products that people wanted. How exactly did that screw us? I am interested, because I am typing this on a computer running a Microsoft product and if I am being screwed I would like to know it. I certainly don't feel screwed.

How do the Doctors screw us? We get sick they make us better and they get paid very well to do it. You know why they get paid well to do it, because there are so few people in the world who can do that job.

CEO's, want to know why they make so much money, because not everyone can do that job. I know people think they just sit in the corner office and do nothing, but I promise you, there is alot more work being done there then the average "burger king worker" as what referenced earlier appreciates.

Are there people in these position who are screwing the system, dishonest, scum, YES THERE ARE. But you know what, there are regular joe workers who are screwing the system, and scum as well.

It would seem to me, and again, forgive me for being reasonable on Topix, that a better way to solve the problems of our country would be to stop trying to divide the country into the haves and the have nots, and actually work together to try and put a plan in place that incentives people to strive to make as good a life as possible for themselves.

jeff

Paris, TX

#20 Dec 6, 2012
Did you ever wonder why we have all of these doctors from other countries? They make more money than they would if they stayed home. In fact, as an average American Doctors are paid twice as much as any other country. That would be o.k. if our health care was twice as good, it's not. we are between 7th and 9th for longevity and infant mortality. Then for some more excersize google CEO salary's world wide. Wow! now that is off the charts..our guys demand about 10 times what the Japanese pay. Or anybody else. Why is that? Are our guys better...that much better. Well, they are good enough to send all the jobs to countries that don't overpay CEO's. Long story short, they made the rules, they set their own salaries and we are paying it. I saw at the top of the Topix banner before I logged in that 65% of the folks in the U.S. are for taxing rich people more. The Patriot Millionaires are campaigning for it. It's gonna happen. And I don't believe it will hurt a dang thing.

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