Help is here against atheist and Chri...

Help is here against atheist and Christmas

Posted in the Paragould Forum

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finding

Jonesboro, AR

#1 Dec 8, 2012
We don't have to cave into atheist groups, our friends at Alliance Freedom and Liberty counsel stand ready to offer legal representation to communities and schools against anti relegious zealots who wish to destroy all public displays of Christmas. Liberty Counsel Po Box 540774
Orlando,Florida 1-800-671-1776
0r 15100 n.90th street
Scottsdale, Az 85260 1-800-835-5233 Let us band together and fight fo our our relegious right's.
Tommy2Toes

United States

#2 Dec 8, 2012
I don't know what the problem is with anti-religious groups. If you don't believe, well just go your own way and don't worry about everyone else. If someone is trying to convert you, just tell them you are not interested and go on about your business. Don't try to spoil it for those of us who do believe in our savior.
I got 10 toes

Paragould, AR

#3 Dec 8, 2012
Tommy2Toes wrote:
I don't know what the problem is with anti-religious groups. If you don't believe, well just go your own way and don't worry about everyone else. If someone is trying to convert you, just tell them you are not interested and go on about your business. Don't try to spoil it for those of us who do believe in our savior.
No one cares what you believe or what you put in your yard, but the problem is when people want to use the government to unconstitutionally promote a religion.
guest

Ridgedale, MO

#4 Dec 9, 2012
I got 10 toes wrote:
...the problem is when people want to use the government to unconstitutionally promote a religion.
Would that be like Congress opening every session with prayer? Or the government paying the salary of clergy to minister to members of the armed forces? Or the Ten Commandments posted in the Supreme Court building in Washington DC? Or the Bible verse inscribed on the Liberty Bell? Or the mention of a Creator in the Declaration of Independence? Or all those crosses marking the graves of fallen soldiers in the VA National Cemetary?

Hmmm....seems to me like we've gone far, far beyond what the history of our nation has always been when we start claiming that government promotes religion.

In fact, the 1st Amendment merely prohibits Congress from enacting laws that establish religion, or prohibiting its free exercise. It doesn't prohibit public displays of religion.

Where is the tolerance the liberals are always screaming about? They are the most intolerant of all when it comes to religion.
Tommy2Toes

United States

#5 Dec 9, 2012
This great country and our government was founded in relations to Christain values. This being a free country everyone is entitled to freedom of religion or if they so choose ignore Christianity/religion. There are signs of religion in all forms of our government and have been for 237 year. Why is it now in the past 60 year non- Christians are trying to remove any signs that shows our government/ country was founded through Christian values.
Live and let live, if an individual is non-Christian then go on about you daily business and ignore any signs of Christianity, just chuckle about it and think to yourself; what a bunch of fools. Then all will be square with yourself and the world.
If a person can't get over that this country has freedom of religion then they are free to leave any time they wish. Let them move to the Muslim world where Christians are be-headed, then maybe that person can rest easy knowing they will never have to see a nativity scene at a school or government complex ever again. THE END....
dumb

Dallas, TX

#6 Dec 9, 2012
Tommy2Toes wrote:
This great country and our government was founded in relations to Christain values. This being a free country everyone is entitled to freedom of religion or if they so choose ignore Christianity/religion. There are signs of religion in all forms of our government and have been for 237 year. Why is it now in the past 60 year non- Christians are trying to remove any signs that shows our government/ country was founded through Christian values.
Live and let live, if an individual is non-Christian then go on about you daily business and ignore any signs of Christianity, just chuckle about it and think to yourself; what a bunch of fools. Then all will be square with yourself and the world.
If a person can't get over that this country has freedom of religion then they are free to leave any time they wish. Let them move to the Muslim world where Christians are be-headed, then maybe that person can rest easy knowing they will never have to see a nativity scene at a school or government complex ever again. THE END....
False
liverachi

Dallas, TX

#7 Dec 9, 2012
Tommy2Toes wrote:
This great country and our government was founded in relations to Christain values. This being a free country everyone is entitled to freedom of religion or if they so choose ignore Christianity/religion. There are signs of religion in all forms of our government and have been for 237 year. Why is it now in the past 60 year non- Christians are trying to remove any signs that shows our government/ country was founded through Christian values.
Live and let live, if an individual is non-Christian then go on about you daily business and ignore any signs of Christianity, just chuckle about it and think to yourself; what a bunch of fools. Then all will be square with yourself and the world.
If a person can't get over that this country has freedom of religion then they are free to leave any time they wish. Let them move to the Muslim world where Christians are be-headed, then maybe that person can rest easy knowing they will never have to see a nativity scene at a school or government complex ever again. THE END....
You should study history. Our forefathers believed not in the god you do. Most were atheists. Also nearly all the stories in your bible existed in other cultures hundreds of years prior to the writing of your bible. So your bible writers weren't very good story tellers, they had to steal their work. Kind of makes you think it might all be made up right?
Tommy2Toes

United States

#8 Dec 9, 2012
You make up your stories the way you want people to believe and I'll tell it the way it was and we'll both be happy.
this issue is NOT new

Paragould, AR

#9 Dec 9, 2012
Tommy2Toes wrote:
This great country and our government was founded in relations to Christain values. This being a free country everyone is entitled to freedom of religion or if they so choose ignore Christianity/religion. There are signs of religion in all forms of our government and have been for 237 year. Why is it now in the past 60 year non- Christians are trying to remove any signs that shows our government/ country was founded through Christian values...
You should Google deism. Many of our most influential founding fathers were deists, not Christians. For example...

In one of his many letters to John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (in comparing the supernatural beleifs of Christianity to an Ancient Greek Mythological story where someone grew inside of someone's brain and emerged from their head fully clothed and grown) said:

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."

Thomas Jefferson was attacked as an "infidel" by many Christians when he ran for President because of his deist beliefs and the separation of church and state issue. For example, in 1800 the New England Palladium (a major newspaper) wrote:

"Should the infidel Jefferson be elected to the Presidency, the seal of death is that moment set on our holy religion, our churches will be prostrated, and some infamous prostitute, under the title of goddess of reason, will preside in the sanctuaries now devoted to the worship of the most High."

In response to those attacks:

"They [the Christian clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816

"Priests dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820

...and it goes on and on, with this founding father, who is the author of the Declaration of Independence, and many others.
nope its NOT a new issue

Paragould, AR

#10 Dec 9, 2012
Here is a quote from Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason, a book which was a bestseller in colonial America.

In "The Age of Reason" (a treatise supporting deism) Thomas Paine says:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
guest

Paragould, AR

#11 Dec 9, 2012
finding wrote:
We don't have to cave into atheist groups, our friends at Alliance Freedom and Liberty counsel stand ready to offer legal representation to communities and schools against anti relegious zealots who wish to destroy all public displays of Christmas. Liberty Counsel Po Box 540774
Orlando,Florida 1-800-671-1776
0r 15100 n.90th street
Scottsdale, Az 85260 1-800-835-5233 Let us band together and fight fo our our relegious right's.
Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. It doesn't make sense to have the free exercise clause without the establishment clause. And it is you who can exercise your religion freely, not the government, nor you through the government. That is prohibited by the establishment clause.

Who is wanting to violate your religious rights?

The irony is that it is you who is wanting to violate the religious rights of others.
finding

Jonesboro, AR

#12 Dec 9, 2012
I got 10 toes wrote:
<quoted text>
No one cares what you believe or what you put in your yard, but the problem is when people want to use the government to unconstitutionally promote a religion.
But we don't have to cave into the atheist on this, we can display wherever we want to, we now have help.
guest

Paragould, AR

#13 Dec 9, 2012
finding wrote:
<quoted text>But we don't have to cave into the atheist on this, we can display wherever we want to, we now have help.
No, you can't display wherever you want. You can't display in my yard. That alone proves you wrong. But more to the point, you can't have the government display for you. As for your property, you can display wherever you want. On your property.
Question

Keller, TX

#14 Dec 9, 2012
Tommy2Toes wrote:
This great country and our government was founded in relations to Christain values. This being a free country everyone is entitled to freedom of religion or if they so choose ignore Christianity/religion. There are signs of religion in all forms of our government and have been for 237 year. Why is it now in the past 60 year non- Christians are trying to remove any signs that shows our government/ country was founded through Christian values.
Live and let live, if an individual is non-Christian then go on about you daily business and ignore any signs of Christianity, just chuckle about it and think to yourself; what a bunch of fools. Then all will be square with yourself and the world.
If a person can't get over that this country has freedom of religion then they are free to leave any time they wish. Let them move to the Muslim world where Christians are be-headed, then maybe that person can rest easy knowing they will never have to see a nativity scene at a school or government complex ever again. THE END....
We did not decide we were a Christain country till the 1950's. The first two hundred years or so we spent killing Indians and stealing their land. Not the way you go about establishing a Christain country; if one can really even exist.
finding

Jonesboro, AR

#15 Dec 9, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you can't display wherever you want. You can't display in my yard. That alone proves you wrong. But more to the point, you can't have the government display for you. As for your property, you can display wherever you want. On your property.
Always a smart ass has to post something, why would I want to put a display in your yard?
guest

Ridgedale, MO

#16 Dec 10, 2012
liverachi wrote:
Our forefathers believed not in the god you do. Most were atheists.
That's absolutely false. The vast majority of the people who founded our country were Christians who came here seeking religious freedom.
guest

Ridgedale, MO

#17 Dec 10, 2012
this issue is NOT new wrote:
Many of our most influential founding fathers were deists, not Christians.
Some were deists, but the vast majority were Christians, and Christianity was far and away the most popular religion.

The pilgrims, as you will recall, were, Christians fleeing Europe in order to escape religious persecution, and they literally began their stay in their new land with the words,“In the name of God, Amen.”

The pilgrims were followed to New England by the Puritans, who created bible-based commonwealths. Those commonwealths practiced the same sort of representative government as their church covenants. Those governmental covenants and compacts numbered more than 100, and were the foundation for our Constitution.

New Haven (Connecticut) and Massachusetts were founded by Puritans who wanted to reform the Church of England, who later became known as Congregationalists. Roger Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based on the principle of freedom of conscience. Pennsylvania was established by William Penn as a Quaker colony. Maryland was a haven for Catholics from Protestant England.

America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity.

All but two of the first 108 universities founded in America were Christian. This includes the first, Harvard, where the student handbook listed this as Rule #1:“Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

In 1777. Continental Congress voted to spend $300,000 to purchase bibles which were to be distributed throughout the 13 colonies! And in 1782, the United States Congress declared,“The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.
guest

Ridgedale, MO

#18 Dec 10, 2012
On March 6, 1789, President John Adams called for a national day of fasting and prayer for the country could "call to mind our numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore his pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgression, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience..."

A few other quotes which demonstrate Adams’ thoughts about Jesus are below.

On April 18, 1775, a British soldier ordered him, John Hancock, and others to “disperse in the name of George the Sovereign King of England. Adams responded to him:
“We recognize no sovereign but God, and no king but Jesus!”

In an October 13, 1789 address to the military, he said:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

In a letter to Thomas Jefferson dated June 28, 1813, he said
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity"
guest

Ridgedale, MO

#19 Dec 10, 2012
George Washington served as vestryman in his Episcopal parish from 1763 to 1782.

In his first general order to his own troops, General Washington said he called on:
‘Every officer and man...to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.’

In a letter to all state governors in June, 1783, he wrote:

"I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government--to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their Brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love Mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, Humility, and Pacific temper of mind which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a Happy Nation."

In 1787, he warned the Constitutional Convention delegates:

“If to please the people, we offer what we ourselves disapprove, how can we afterward defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair; the event is in the Hand of God!”
guest

Ridgedale, MO

#20 Dec 10, 2012
Written in the front of his Thomas Jefferson’s Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."

On April 21, 1803, Jefferson wrote this to Dr. Benjamin Rush (also a signer of the Declaration of Independence):

“My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.”

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