GOP Voted for Death Panels in 2003

GOP Voted for Death Panels in 2003

There are 159 comments on the snafu-ed.blogspot.com story from Aug 14, 2009, titled GOP Voted for Death Panels in 2003. In it, snafu-ed.blogspot.com reports that:

This is now a non-issue because the end-of-life counseling provision in the health care reform bill which gave rise to the "death panel" mythology is now out of the bill, but while the GOP tries to protect its health insurance backers by fighting against Universal Health Care , Time Magazine recalls that the GOP voted for a similar provision in 2003. For "death panels" then, and now conveniently against them now when it suits there needs. Hypocritical.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at snafu-ed.blogspot.com.

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Crazy Ox3thong

United States

#1 Aug 14, 2009
Yoria, weeeeeeeeek end note?:) hu should Tao vote fo Editor of de Yr.? U, Bill_mr, Mac-7, ect.... Hello is good alsooooooo

:-0
Responsibility

San Bruno, CA

#2 Aug 14, 2009
Very interesting discussion today on the change of mind (should we say flip flop? or should we say hypocrisy?) when it was ok under Bush bur now it ia the big boogemen of health care).

So interessting too that we have gone from scaring the beejus about:

Granny
Special Needs
Abortion
Veteran

Good gawd, what next:

He republicannotdo yahoos:

How about UFO's next?!
Simon

Clearwater, FL

#3 Aug 14, 2009
they were for death panels before they were against them, eh?- typical flip flopping GOP
pjs

United States

#4 Aug 14, 2009
guess what...it wasn't good in 2003 and it isn't good under Obama.

And were doctors incentivized ($$$$$) to discuss DeathCare under the 2003 bill; as they are under ObamaCare bill?

That's just Cash for Caskets.

Let's keep it simple: get RID of Federal Employee Healthcare then EVERYBODY can go on ObamaCare.

Congressional Healthcare = American Healthcare

Mandated that Federal Employees participate in ObamaCare...they "shall", and no loopholes ever.

Let's see those Federal Employees hunger for ObamaCare.
Glasnos

Apopka, FL

#5 Aug 14, 2009
And my dog ate my homework.
What other lies and misinfomation can the left throw out there?
There are no death panels ... the right is crazy.

Well ... we removed those provisions from the bill (even though they were not in there)

The right put those provisions in there first...

How can anyone trust anything the Obama administration tells us?
All they do is deny and demonize.

“Stress Test”

Since: Mar 09

St. Louis

#6 Aug 14, 2009
Let's have a town hall meeting on this one!

“Stress Test”

Since: Mar 09

St. Louis

#7 Aug 14, 2009
Glasnos wrote:
And my dog ate my homework.
What other lies and misinfomation can the left throw out there?
There are no death panels ... the right is crazy.
Well ... we removed those provisions from the bill (even though they were not in there)
The right put those provisions in there first...
How can anyone trust anything the Obama administration tells us?
All they do is deny and demonize.
That can't be right. The GOP are the one's who are persistent in denying and demonizing.
ladydi

Arlington, VA

#8 Aug 14, 2009
End of life counseling was wrong then AND NOW! An elderly person discussing the "Blue Book Value" of their life should be a personal decision made with friends and/or family...not one made before a "panel." What would be the "panel's" interest in a sick person's life...other than monetary?...Just like being admitted into a nursing home...They want to know what's in the bank account and what kind of dwelling you live in!

“Handle says it all”

Since: Apr 09

Mendon, MA

#9 Aug 14, 2009
ladydi wrote:
End of life counseling was wrong then AND NOW! An elderly person discussing the "Blue Book Value" of their life should be a personal decision made with friends and/or family...not one made before a "panel." What would be the "panel's" interest in a sick person's life...other than monetary?...Just like being admitted into a nursing home...They want to know what's in the bank account and what kind of dwelling you live in!
You are completely clueless about what end of life counseling is all about.

I've been through this process for both my mother and my wife. They are both very much alive, but both have had conditions that required extensive surgery. They both decided to name me their health care proxy after receiving end of life counseling. That means that I will make the final decisions based on what they communicated to me about their wishes should they not be able to make their own decisions.

My mother is fine with DNR, but does not want to have food and hydration removed should she be in in persistent vegetative state. My wife wants resuscitation attempts, but does not want to be kept on life support for more than a month in a persistent vegetative state. There are more details, but the result of end of life counseling is that I have the final say if they can't make the decisions themselves.

If you think families should be making these decisions, you should support having health plans (including medicare and a public option) paying for end of life counseling so that families can make these decisions in an informed manner.
MIke

Succasunna, NJ

#11 Aug 14, 2009
we DON'T call them "Death Panels"...but what do you think a Denial of Care Claim is? DUH!! Just as Obama said...their will be a committee to determine "effective treatment"... what do you think the term "effective treatment" means in insurance language?

If you are 75 years old with cancer...should we give you chemo or radiation? What if their is only a 70% chance that you will survive...is this treatment "effective"? What if the odds are 50%? Where is the "cut off" that the treatment is NOT effective? What if you are in a coma...how long will the govt. public option care for you?? one year? two? When is it NOT effective to care for you? If you are 89 years old...should the govt. pay for a new knee for you?

Do you really think that the govt. public option (which we WILL be forced into...according to the CBO and ALL NONPARTISAN Research groups!) is going to spend an UNLIMITED amount of money on a person? Keep dreaming.

So we don't call them "death panels"...we just call them "Effective Treatment Committees"!
GDP

United States

#12 Aug 14, 2009
Skeptical Thinker wrote:
<quoted text>You are completely clueless about what end of life counseling is all about.
I've been through this process for both my mother and my wife. They are both very much alive, but both have had conditions that required extensive surgery. They both decided to name me their health care proxy after receiving end of life counseling. That means that I will make the final decisions based on what they communicated to me about their wishes should they not be able to make their own decisions.
My mother is fine with DNR, but does not want to have food and hydration removed should she be in in persistent vegetative state. My wife wants resuscitation attempts, but does not want to be kept on life support for more than a month in a persistent vegetative state. There are more details, but the result of end of life counseling is that I have the final say if they can't make the decisions themselves.
If you think families should be making these decisions, you should support having health plans (including medicare and a public option) paying for end of life counseling so that families can make these decisions in an informed manner.
The costs for this is about $150 but now we'll have to pay out of pocket
Fear clouds judgement that costs us more in the end
progressive

Lamoni, IA

#13 Aug 14, 2009
Responsibility wrote:
Very interesting discussion today on the change of mind (should we say flip flop? or should we say hypocrisy?) when it was ok under Bush bur now it ia the big boogemen of health care).
So interessting too that we have gone from scaring the beejus about:
Granny
Special Needs
Abortion
Veteran
Good gawd, what next:
He republicannotdo yahoos:
How about UFO's next?!
Careful - much better chance that they would be correct if they spotted UFO's - after all the U stands for unidentified - they can't identify the truth about anything else, so why not that, too?
progressive

Lamoni, IA

#14 Aug 14, 2009
GDP wrote:
<quoted text>
The costs for this is about $150 but now we'll have to pay out of pocket
Fear clouds judgement that costs us more in the end
I know - I get it about fear, too - I don't wanna die and I don't wanna live in great pain - and I don't wanna age greatly, or not age - and I am relatively rational. People do not like to face end-of-life care decisions - me too. It should be made much more routine, and should happen when people are very young, and don't take it to heart, but can deal iwith it intellectually, and then be re-visited from time to time, especially as there are new advances in pain control, etc.
progressive

Lamoni, IA

#15 Aug 14, 2009
But it can be done with helpers other than doctors, if experts are trained by AARP, for example, or other non-profit type groups, which have the welfare of people at heart. and magazines can cover the issues in more depth, with facsimile documents, and discussions. TV medical reporters can report on it, rationally. When Republicans have a chance to lie about something, for partisan reasons, is not a good time for a sensible discussion. Even grassley, in iowa. I did not think he would pander quite so disgracefully, or lie quite so baldly.
Lance Winslow

Alameda, CA

#16 Aug 14, 2009
GDP wrote:
<quoted text>
The costs for this is about $150 but now we'll have to pay out of pocket
Fear clouds judgement that costs us more in the end
Most people simply don't realize how close they are to having end-of-life decisions made for them. And, it's not just about the elderly. There are already programs in place to deny treatment to severly ill people, sometimes young adults, at triage facilities in the "worst case" scenarios of pandemic influenza, for example.
progressive

Lamoni, IA

#17 Aug 14, 2009
Skeptical Thinker wrote:
<quoted text>You are completely clueless about what end of life counseling is all about.
I've been through this process for both my mother and my wife. They are both very much alive, but both have had conditions that required extensive surgery. They both decided to name me their health care proxy after receiving end of life counseling. That means that I will make the final decisions based on what they communicated to me about their wishes should they not be able to make their own decisions.
My mother is fine with DNR, but does not want to have food and hydration removed should she be in in persistent vegetative state. My wife wants resuscitation attempts, but does not want to be kept on life support for more than a month in a persistent vegetative state. There are more details, but the result of end of life counseling is that I have the final say if they can't make the decisions themselves.
If you think families should be making these decisions, you should support having health plans (including medicare and a public option) paying for end of life counseling so that families can make these decisions in an informed manner.
yes, it scares me to think about it on my own. and I think the individual should make the decision for himself or herself, and not lean on the family to make the decision - except if some especially loving person wants to know what would hurt her spouse and children least, to have her maybe go too soon, or linger too long maybe in pain and misery. I have trouble enough deciding what to do with old, sick animals when they are dying and I don't know how much pain they are in, and whether they want to be put out of their misery.
progressive

Lamoni, IA

#18 Aug 14, 2009
Glasnos wrote:
And my dog ate my homework.
What other lies and misinfomation can the left throw out there?
There are no death panels ... the right is crazy.
Well ... we removed those provisions from the bill (even though they were not in there)
The right put those provisions in there first...
How can anyone trust anything the Obama administration tells us?
All they do is deny and demonize.
You might try informing yourself, instead of trying to lie to us. The ultra-right wingers are crazy, not everyone right of center. HJohnny Isakson, as a Congrssman, now a Seantor, was apparently connected with some of teh language for the consultations. If you are smart enough to lie, are you also smart enough to learn the truth? Don't you think there are sensible questions to ask about the bill, instead of just having to lie about it. If it was "taken out" as Grssley says, then it was taken out of the Finance Committee working copy of the bill that he and the 5 others are still negotiating about, at his insistence, because he is i a position to black mail the democrats, by lying to the people of Iowa about the provision, and then having to get it out to save face, and not have to admit that he ws lying. He isn't a lawyer. Specter ans Isdaklson and Murkowski in alaska - also running for re-eelection, know that grassley is mistaken. But grassley is out on a limb, and has to look like an expert to continue to imrpess all the fools in iowa who think he is a folksy, but well-informed, nice honest guy. He can't admit to pandering lying, or being ill-informed, or stupid! So it came out to save face - for grassley, in large part. If he had bothered to find outthe truth, who knows what side he would have ben on . most likely he would have still pandered to the right-wing nuts in the Ioa GOP - though they are not even as mean and nutty as elsewhere - just to be sure of not having a primary opponent who would attrat many votes. He has to appear invulnerale - smart, powerful, aw shucks, and jsut a farmer and one of us. It's a big con job, and has worked for years. Even I like him at times, and on some issues, where he is occasionally correct, though I balance it out against how often he is wrong - much more often. I was surprized that he was either so stupid, ill-informed, mis-informed, dishonest, pandering, or dishonorable, when I saw him giving some of his lying innuendo answers and comments on the news reports of his town hall meetings in Western Iopwa. That is the land of the nut-case right-winger Steve King, and he has accustomed his folks to lies, pandering, stupidity, misinformation, and dishonor, so maybe grassley just took the easy path that had been laid out with those voters. Makes Terry branstad look like an angel - especially as long as he keeps his mouth shut!

Since: Mar 08

Lexington, KY

#19 Aug 14, 2009
When will you RWL's learn that normal people do not view stupidity as a virtue. However, it helps to be an unthinking sheep to swallow the right wing garbage. Even some of our credible elected officials have fell into the trap of using the term "death panels" to refer to advance directives, or living wills. Just the use of the term "death panels" is unsettling to our seniors. A sad thought; are our elected officials becoming unthinking sheep? Advance directives are nothing more than an expression of a persons own preferences, in consultation with their family and doctor, when they become terminally ill with no hope of recovery and unable to speak for themselves. To my knowledge, the current health care reform bills under consideration will pay for counseling, with your doctor, if you so choose. Advance directives are a good thing and everyone should consider them.
ladydi wrote:
End of life counseling was wrong then AND NOW! An elderly person discussing the "Blue Book Value" of their life should be a personal decision made with friends and/or family...not one made before a "panel." What would be the "panel's" interest in a sick person's life...other than monetary?...Just like being admitted into a nursing home...They want to know what's in the bank account and what kind of dwelling you live in!

“"I'm A Great American!"”

Since: Sep 08

Obama Nation! USA! USA!

#20 Aug 14, 2009
The right wing is spreading fear and smear at a furious pace. It's worked for them in the past, and they return to their playbook once more.

President Obama has won all of his political fights for almost the last ten years. I've second guessed his tactics since the Presidential primaries, but each time he emerged victorious.

Health care reform would be a tough one to lose, but it's comforting to know the undefeated heavyweight champion is working to reform health care. All the best, Mr President.
progressive

Lamoni, IA

#21 Aug 14, 2009
Lance Winslow wrote:
<quoted text>Most people simply don't realize how close they are to having end-of-life decisions made for them. And, it's not just about the elderly. There are already programs in place to deny treatment to severly ill people, sometimes young adults, at triage facilities in the "worst case" scenarios of pandemic influenza, for example.
I think this is a very important point, and a comprehensive approach should be found, beginning with parents of younger children, and parents and teens together when the teen gets his/her first driver's ed permit. They won't believe it could happen to them, anyhow, an dso won't be freaked out by the horrible reality of itk the way a more sensible person would. Being dumb and oblivious would be an advantage, in making it easier tfor them to hear the information, without wanting to deliberately turn iit out out of fear and a need to run away from the issues. Certainly when people marry it should again be discussed, and I would suggest leaving power of attorney with a loving and understanding parent for a while, and having a living will. I suspect a spouse would not want to face it at that point, and each person might be led to see that it is kind and caring thing to spare the spouse the responsibility that would be thrust on him or her, if either of them wimped out, and did not face the decisions, the possibilities, and make the decisions.

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