Ethanol boom a mixed bag

Len Corzine zipped up the hooded sweat shirt a John Deere dealer gave him hours earlier, before heading out to survey a plot of land he farms.

[Joe F]

And the worse part of all is that when they make E85, you only get 2/3 the mileage you get with all gasoline so I don't see any savings. All it does, is rip people off. The corn growers are making a killing now. Down the road when they are suppose to make cars that get 35 miles per gallon, they will be so high that a lot of middle class can't afford them and non of the poor will be able and the gas goes to maybe $6 a gallon, whose going to help us then.

[Jamie]

Joshua -
Where were you and the Chicago Tribune when corn was at $2 a bushel and farmers were struggling to break even?
And I can't believe that higher fuel costs have nothing to do with higher food prices. I know that in local towns, small grocers have cut down on their shipments because of increased fuel surcharges on every shipment. Where's the story on that? Or do the petroleum and grocery industry PR folks have too much influence?

[Dean]

I am having a hard time believing that ethanol is a valid source of fuel. First off, if your vehicle burns E-85 like mine does you can literally watch the needle on your gas guage go down as you drive because it is about 20-25% less efficient. The savings at the pump does not translate into real savings in your pocket. It turns out to be a wash. Secondly, the federal government really is sticking it to the taxpayers with their subsidies to the ethanol producers, so we are taking it in the pocket again. But the thing I dislike about ethanol the most is the fact that our food prices are beginging to go up as much as our kids college expenses and our health care. There is something ethically wrong with this as we watch more families slide into poverty that can't afford to buy a decent loaf of bread.

[Dick]

If the farmers are doing that well maybe they can start paying their fair share of taxes. They have been given hugh taxbreaks the past dozen or so years and pass the burden on to regular folks and seniors.

[joe]

Someone needs to blame Bush

[jrg]

It also takes more fuel to grow and process ethanol into fuel than it does to prcess crude into fuel.

[Dean]

Someone needs to blame midwestern congressmen and congress in general. They have been crying to Bush to come up with an energy plan that does not rely on foreign oil. Under pressure, this is all they could come up with. Corn based ethanol is not the answer because you can't get enough alcohol out of it. They should be looking at sugar cane or other plants that give them a bigger bang for their buck. I'm all for farmers making money, I just don't want to pay more for my bread than my gas.

[Jol]

Yeah, exactly. Numerous, reliable sources have pointed out that ethanol fuel is not cost effective to produce. Plus so many cars--new cars even--are not supposed to be run on E85 in the first place. Does ethanol from corn make any sense at all? And what about the pollution it produces?

However, as far as the people whining about high food prices, here's one solution--stop eating meat and save money like so many of us are starting to do.

Numerous medical experts have pointed out--and especially over the past 2 years--the increased cancer risks associated with eating meat and pork products. Also, check out the FDA approval-- August 2006--that allows manufacturers to spray deli meat with viruses, in an effort to combat the lysteria bacteria. ICK!

Look into how this stuff is being produced today--large CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operations) where thousands of animals are caged without access to
the outdoors and sunlight, in buildings where millions of gallons of waste and water are stored just below ground in a huge concrete pit so lethal that if you step down into it without protection for even a minute or two, you could easily die.

Just recently, I heard on TV that they're saying the pollution that comes from these CAFOs contributes more to global warming than our cars.

FARMERS produce grain, vegetable and fruit. CAFO factory owners are not farmers. I'm glad they have to pay more for their corn to feed their caged livestock. What a miserable life those poor creatures must live, just to put food on some overweight slob's table.

[Boom2Bustdotcom]

Not so sure corn-based ethanol is the way to go. From USA Today, July 31, 2006:

"Corn ethanol is 'energy efficient' as indicated by an energy input to output ratio of 0.75, says the USDA in an in-house report that is not peer-reviewed.

However, David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell University, disagrees. He has contended for the past twenty-five years (since his 1980 study for the U.S. Secretary of Energy, reviewed by 26 top scientists and unanimously approved):'There is no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel.' In his latest study (researched with Tad W. Patzek), Pimentel reports an energy input to output ratio of 1.29.

'In terms of renewable fuels, ethanol is the worst solution,' agrees Tad Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of California, Berkeley.'It has the highest energy cost with the least benefit.'"

[Truth]

Ethanol based fuel exauhst is even more hazardous to human health than traditional oil base auto fuel, it agravates asthma and other breathing problems much more than traditional exaust.

Also, due to the conversion of agricultoral products from food to fuel and the cost going up we'll see food becoming even more unobtainable for poor nations...way to go liberals, starving the 3rd world countries.

[Tom]

Sorry, I am going to keep eating meat.

[Payback is a Beach]

For almost a century, American taxpayers and consumers have supported American farmers with price supports in various guises. Isn't it time for some payback? How about some limits on prices of milk and grain used in consumer goods?

[WTF]

It takes 425 bushels of corn and 500 gallons of water to fill one cars gas tank with ethanol.
This is all a scam that was created to keep ADM alive after they lost a huge lawsuit.
Everyone in Illinois is paying due to this rip off.
Ethanol will drink our state dry as companies profit from our natural resources leaving us high and dry when the water runs out.
This was Ryans last FY to the people.

[Craig]

Jol wrote:

Also, check out the FDA approval-- August 2006--that allows manufacturers to spray deli meat with viruses, in an effort to combat the lysteria bacteria. ICK!

And big ick! Doctors are also injecting innocent babies with VIRUSES! I mean, it's not enough that they force us to eat them. They regularly inject us, also.

[Craig]

So long as the first caucus is in Iowa, you can expect pandering to farmers on corn.

[Craig - the other one]

Craig wrote:

So long as the first caucus is in Iowa, you can expect pandering to farmers on corn.

Yup. I say move the first primaries to the West Coast and let the politicians trip over themselves granting wine subsidies.

[FAUST100F]

The ethanol debate is a ruse, the only way we can get control of our destiny in the U.S. is to get rid of the strangle hold the Arabs who want to kill all Americans fist from around our necks. It takes almost twice as much water to refine a gallon of gas as it does a gallon of ethanol, plus the water from ethanol is returned to the ecosystem clean.
As to farmers, which I am one, and which picked up a JD degree and a CPA during my farming career, you see you cannot trust lawyers, or accountants in growing your business. I did not see anyone crying in the 80's when I lost 18 years of work after purchasing 2600 acres of farmland, and had to start over with nothing, and it took me 20 years to dig myself out of that hole, everyone else went on with their lives as farmers in the midwest were wiped out because of cheap prices and collapsing land values.
I am glad I have lived long enough to see the wheel turn, the cheap food policy should have come to an end along time ago. Those of you who receive weekly or monthly paychecks were the lucky ones, we only got paid once a year if at all.
Currently most of us are now viewed as multi millionaires here in Iowa, but land is of no real value to a real farmer, because it is necessary for him to do what he does for a living. The only beneficiaries are his children when they sell out the assets when he dies.
Perhaps, since there are so few of us remaining we should redistribute the land to those of you who chose the government dole, or weekly paychecks and a guaranteed income, just like they did in Africa where the population is now starving, when white farmers were driven out. I am still combining corn and will be at it into February, but it is selling for $4.50 a bushel, and beans are at $11.00, we are making great money even if we only get a half a crop.
Am I bitter, you bet, I personally do not care if all the corn and beans are used for ethanol and exported, let the Americans eat one cup of rice a day like the other half of the world does. Have a great day, a rich Iowa Farmer.

[PaulW]

Facts:

Food prices are increasing mostly due to higher fuel and energy prices, and increasing world demand for food, particularly higher quality food.

The media is stretching to find a good story by "assuming" that biofuels are to blame.

E85 fuel decreases real-world (not hypothetically derived calculations) fuel economy 10 to 20%, not 30%.

Ethanol is selling for near $2.00, before a blender credit that should make it around $1.50 per gallon. If the blenders (Big Oil) are keeping this credit and not passing it on to consumers, then shame on them.

The economics of using E85 to fuel an FFV is often either side of a wash. However, that is for the individual consumer. There are many other synergetic savings. By using ethanol, the fuel supply is increased, which decreases the price of gasoline (simple supply and demand economics). By decreasing our dependence on foreign oil, it decreases our need to spend $billions as a nation on defending foreign oil fields. This also decreases the loss of our own soldiers' lives and the loss of foreign civilians' lives. There are many more savings to be explored.

Farmers already pay a huge tax burden. Whether or not they pay taxes on particular drought or disaster years, they often pay taxes in the good years, and high taxes at that. The way they can avoid the taxes is to spend more on capital purchases, but that is not expendible money to them, just a reinvestment. The sad truth is that through inheritance/death taxes, family farm operations have been pillaged by taxes for many generations. This may change depending on political decisions. Additionally, the products they produce are taxed at several levels before and after the farm field, which drastically decreases the potential income they could make.

Very plain and simple, it takes more energy to produce gasoline than what is delivered in the end. Whereas, corn ethanol provides an extra 30% or more energy, and sugar cane and cellulosic ethanol provide many times that.

Dr. Pimentel and Patzek of Berkley are either sadly mistaken about their energy calculations at best, or worse they are personally or monetarily motivated to spin their results. Almost all top scientists in the field denounce their findings.

Somebody mentioned 425 bushels of corn to fill their fuel tank. The average conversion is 1 bushel of corn to produce 2.8 gallons of ethanol. Therefore, that person's fuel tank holds 1,190 gallons of fuel. Not possible.

They also mentioned 500 gallons to fill the tank. Again, this number is a miscalculation, or ill-intentioned. Yes, corn fields use a lot of rain water in Illinois to produce their plants and corn. No, that's not the same as waste water (it is naturally recycled into the air). Remember, this is a natural, renewable fuel.

The comments of FAUST100F (not the author of these facts) are very true. If you know someone who grew up on a family farm the last few decades, they will witness to you the same experiences. American farmers are heavilly depended on by those in the city, but often are most venemously belittled and disdained by these same people. Next time you put the fork or cup to
your mouth, thank the farmers who, until the last couple of years, poured their blood, sweat, and tears into producing the food you eat for little or no income return. What goes up also comes down, and soon enough they may see the same days of low or no income.

Final fact: The author of this Chicago Tribune article is severely ignorant on this subject, and has now displayed that ignorance to the rest of the world that is not so ignorant as to follow this ignorant bandwagon. Mr. Boak, please use some journalistic integrity, contact the sources on the other side of this debate (Renewable Fuels Assocation, National Ethanol
Vehicle Coalition, American Lung Assocation, to name a few), and write an article with the real facts.