Jesus was a liar
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Atheo Aphobos

Douglasville, GA

#1 Jun 6, 2013
Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer. Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away. Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If Iím converted today, Iíll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to kissing Godís ass. If Iím not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.

Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:

1) And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,`Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

2) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.(Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

3) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.(Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

4) Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain,'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.(Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

5) And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.(Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

6) And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.(John 14:13-14 NAB)

7) If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.(John 15:7 NAB)

8) It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.(John 15:16 NAB)

9) On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.(John 16:23-24 NAB)

A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible. They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else. If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers. He says God will grant all your prayers. Clearly, God doesnít grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.
Believer

Carrollton, GA

#2 Jun 7, 2013
I an a Christian, have been blessed repeatedly, have not been given all I have prayed for, but have been given what was in god's plan for me.(Jer 29:11). I have lost those I love, had heartache, been faced with challenges I don't know how I conquered, I sin, but often I wonder why me? Ultimately I choose to believe because if I don't, what is the point of living?

God gives what you need. He doesnt give based on ridiculous wants and inpossible selfish things. As Matthew 21:21 clearly states- "if you have faith and doubt not..." This cursing of the barren fig-tree represents the state of hypocrites in general, and so teaches us that Christ looks for the power of religion in those who profess it, and the savour of it from those that have the show of it. His just expectations from flourishing professors are often disappointed; he comes to many, seeking fruit, and finds leaves only. A FALSE profession commonly withers in this world, and it is the effect of Christ's curse.

Quite frankly my dear, one must truly believe. Just saying you do isn't enough. You are not a true believer of you wouldn't have a post on here questioning His power. God might not move the "mountain" you asked him to move.... But look around you and you might be amazed at what he has provided and you are too busy doubting to notice.

Mathew 21: 20-22
And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21Jesus answered and said to them, Truly I say to you, If you have faith, and doubt not, you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if you shall say to this mountain, Be you removed, and be you cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22And all things, whatever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive. Mathew 6: 7-8
when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not you therefore like to them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him.

Matthew 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.

Luke 12:30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them.
Also a believer

Norcross, GA

#3 Jun 7, 2013
Thank you believer!! It's great to see someone take a stand for truth. Clearly this guy is lost and that's forgivable. But he stands for hate and that's just sad.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#4 Jun 9, 2013
OP, you're going about it the wrong way. No one really knows what Jesus (or Yeshu'a bar Yosef) said, because none of the Gospels were written while he was alive.

Then you have 4 different Gospels written at different times by different people, with different goals in mind.

So in my opinion it's a pointless argument to say "Jesus lied". IMO, Jesus mostly just wanted people to get along, take care of the poor and infirm, obey the law, and pay their taxes. He didn't say anything about all the other stuff Christians like to get all warped out of shape over (gays, gay marriage, abortion, etc).
Jesus never said that

Bremen, GA

#5 Jun 10, 2013
wobbler1957 wrote:
OP, you're going about it the wrong way. No one really knows what Jesus (or Yeshu'a bar Yosef) said, because none of the Gospels were written while he was alive.

Then you have 4 different Gospels written at different times by different people, with different goals in mind.

So in my opinion it's a pointless argument to say "Jesus lied". IMO, Jesus mostly just wanted people to get along, take care of the poor and infirm, obey the law, and pay their taxes. He didn't say anything about all the other stuff Christians like to get all warped out of shape over (gays, gay marriage, abortion, etc).
Since I appreciate you approached this subject differently than you have in the past, thanks.

However, Christians don't claim Jesus said these things. Clearly, Jesus' message is one of forgiveness, healing, faith , and love.

God is the one who put down the law, and wrote passages about sexual behavior, murder, stealing. However, having said that, no one is perfect and everyone is failing at all those Thou Shall Nots. Jesus passages are about accepting this and loving one another despite our failures.

God listens to everyone's prayer. However, everything is done according to God's plan. I may ask to move the mountain behind my house. But the person on the other side of the mountain can be asking to keep the mountain. The point is this, God listens and prayers are not alway answered according to our will, but God's will. His plan is not to appease us for everything but for us to come closer to him. The Earth is not a perfect place and God does not wish it to be. There is a difference in Heaven and Earth.

I will pray for you - not for the mountain to be moved, but for you to come closer to God and to learn that prayer is not a test, but a means for you to strengthen your relationship with God and Jesus.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#6 Jun 10, 2013
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm still an atheist with delusions of Buddhism. I just have issues with people who pick the wrong things to argue about.

And religion is one of them. No one ever changed anyone else's opinion of religion or religious beliefs. Now, I'll cheerfully stand here and explain the origins of various Christian holidays and such, but I'll never try to convince you to become an atheist. I just expect the same courtesy to be extended to me.
voter

Tuskegee, AL

#7 Jun 10, 2013
Prayers are answered, not in our time but in HIS time. I have thanked God for unanswered prayers. The fact remains, HE knows what we need and HE will give us what we need when we need it not when we want it or just because we ask. Could you imagine giving your child every single thing they asked for?
Atheo Aphobos

Douglasville, GA

#8 Jun 14, 2013
Believer wrote:
I an a Christian, have been blessed repeatedly, have not been given all I have prayed for, but have been given what was in god's plan for me.(Jer 29:11). I have lost those I love, had heartache, been faced with challenges I don't know how I conquered, I sin, but often I wonder why me? Ultimately I choose to believe because if I don't, what is the point of living?
God gives what you need. He doesnt give based on ridiculous wants and inpossible selfish things. As Matthew 21:21 clearly states- "if you have faith and doubt not..." This cursing of the barren fig-tree represents the state of hypocrites in general, and so teaches us that Christ looks for the power of religion in those who profess it, and the savour of it from those that have the show of it. His just expectations from flourishing professors are often disappointed; he comes to many, seeking fruit, and finds leaves only. A FALSE profession commonly withers in this world, and it is the effect of Christ's curse.
Quite frankly my dear, one must truly believe. Just saying you do isn't enough. You are not a true believer of you wouldn't have a post on here questioning His power. God might not move the "mountain" you asked him to move.... But look around you and you might be amazed at what he has provided and you are too busy doubting to notice.
Mathew 21: 20-22
And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21Jesus answered and said to them, Truly I say to you, If you have faith, and doubt not, you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if you shall say to this mountain, Be you removed, and be you cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22And all things, whatever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive. Mathew 6: 7-8
when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not you therefore like to them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him.
Matthew 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
Luke 12:30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them.
So you pray for things and god only gives you the things in his plan? So what was the purpose of praying? I'm sure you didn't ask for your loved ones to die or get cancer or be hurt and that's what has happened. What did he give you the you did ask for? I guess he ignored all the prayers that you said while people were dying and said "nope, this one dies".

Listen to your "logic". It's so apologetic that it is almost sad.

Like your buddying another post states: the gospels were not even written at the time of Jesus. No one knows what he did or did not say or what he actually did or did not do.

Have you ever asked for a mountain to be removed and cast into the sea and it be done? When I was a Christian these are the things I would question, the absurdities.

Jesus attacked a fig tree and that's proof of his divinity?
voter

Atlanta, GA

#9 Jun 14, 2013
You can choose to believe any way you want. I have been on deaths door twice in my life and had it not been for prayer and the Grace Of God I would not be here. This isn't even something I would normally debate but I know how good HE has been to me and my family. I will continue to praise and worship HIM. I really hope you see the LIGHT some day. You know it doesn't matter how bad you've been or the things you've done. He loves you and will still forgive. All you have to do is ask.
Atheo Aphobos

Eastaboga, AL

#10 Jun 14, 2013
voter wrote:
I have been on deaths door twice in my life and had it not been for prayer and the Grace Of God I would not be here. This isn't even something I would normally debate but I know how good HE has been to me
He's so good to you that he almost killed you twice?
Atheo Aphobos

Eastaboga, AL

#11 Jun 14, 2013
voter wrote:
Prayers are answered, not in our time but in HIS time. I have thanked God for unanswered prayers. The fact remains, HE knows what we need and HE will give us what we need when we need it not when we want it or just because we ask. Could you imagine giving your child every single thing they asked for?
So, he answers prayers when he wants, if he wants? You've thanked god for doing nothing? You believe he knows what you need, still you ask for things KNOWING he's only going to give you the things he wants you to have when he wants you to have it?

Of course I wouldn't give my kids everything material they wanted, that's just silly. But, if my children were to ask me to end their suffering, to help them through a troublesome time, anything... I would do whatever it took to help them. That alone makes me more moral than your god.
Atheo Aphobos

Eastaboga, AL

#12 Jun 14, 2013
Jesus never said that wrote:
<quoted text>
Since I appreciate you approached this subject differently than you have in the past, thanks.
However, Christians don't claim Jesus said these things. Clearly, Jesus' message is one of forgiveness, healing, faith , and love.
God is the one who put down the law, and wrote passages about sexual behavior, murder, stealing. However, having said that, no one is perfect and everyone is failing at all those Thou Shall Nots. Jesus passages are about accepting this and loving one another despite our failures.
God listens to everyone's prayer. However, everything is done according to God's plan. I may ask to move the mountain behind my house. But the person on the other side of the mountain can be asking to keep the mountain. The point is this, God listens and prayers are not alway answered according to our will, but God's will. His plan is not to appease us for everything but for us to come closer to him. The Earth is not a perfect place and God does not wish it to be. There is a difference in Heaven and Earth.
I will pray for you - not for the mountain to be moved, but for you to come closer to God and to learn that prayer is not a test, but a means for you to strengthen your relationship with God and Jesus.
As a Christian you do claim Jesus said these things. Why? Because they are in the bible, your only source for thing related to Jesus.

If you disregard what is said in the bible, then how can you believe that he ever existed and ever tought tolerance, love, peace...etc. You see, by denying that he said these specific things you deny anything said in the bible and unless you use special pleading you cannot use anything therein and hence have no reason to beieve in him.

So god listens and ignores? Why would you pray?

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#13 Jun 14, 2013
Can someone explain to me what the point is of arguing about religions? Those who are atheists or agnostic or something other than Christian are not going to change the minds of the Christians, and the Christians aren't going to change the minds of the others.

It's all just stirring up sh!t and inviting bad feelings. Why not just agree to disagree and not worry about what anyone else believes?
voter

Opelika, AL

#14 Jun 14, 2013
wobbler1957 wrote:
Can someone explain to me what the point is of arguing about religions? Those who are atheists or agnostic or something other than Christian are not going to change the minds of the Christians, and the Christians aren't going to change the minds of the others.

It's all just stirring up sh!t and inviting bad feelings. Why not just agree to disagree and not worry about what anyone else believes?
Thank you! That was my point on my last post when I said "you can choose to believe what you want". Everyone has their own right to believe what they want. I am guilty however of letting people such as this person post things and then it makes me want to tell them how I feel about God or how good he has been to me. I have never tried to force religion on anyone. I also don't think it's right for someone who isn't religious to try and push something on me.

Quite possibly this topic should die.
Atheo Aphobos

Douglasville, GA

#15 Jun 14, 2013
Actually, debate does change minds. That's why I'm an ex-Christian and now an atheist.

I argued with an atheist for hours about how wrong he was. I was sure god existed. This atheist asked questions that made me think. I started to research these topics and found how blind I really was. I found that I was poisoned with lies. I was indoctrinated, as all of you are.
jan

Villa Rica, GA

#16 Jun 15, 2013
You don't pray just to ask for things. You pray to praise God and thank Him for everything that He has blessed you with. I can't pray that God will save you, because you have to pray that yourself. I will however pray that God will speak to your heart and that hopefully you will listen. Almost everyday I look around and wonder how peopke don't believe in God. Where do they think all the beauty of this Earth comes from. Jesus is returning and it is soon. I pray that you realize how great God's love is for you and you won't be left behind. And as far as let peopke believe what they want to believe...I totally disagree with that. It is our job as a christian to spread the Word of God. We are suppose to try to save as many lives as possible before He returns. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!
Atheo Aphobos

Douglasville, GA

#17 Jun 15, 2013
jan wrote:
You don't pray just to ask for things. You pray to praise God and thank Him for everything that He has blessed you with. I can't pray that God will save you, because you have to pray that yourself. I will however pray that God will speak to your heart and that hopefully you will listen. Almost everyday I look around and wonder how peopke don't believe in God. Where do they think all the beauty of this Earth comes from. Jesus is returning and it is soon. I pray that you realize how great God's love is for you and you won't be left behind. And as far as let peopke believe what they want to believe...I totally disagree with that. It is our job as a christian to spread the Word of God. We are suppose to try to save as many lives as possible before He returns. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!
No? You don't pray to ask for things? Weird, that's all every church I went to, every Christian I know does. Don't you pray for Mrs. Scabtrees cancer or Mr. Jones to make it through his double bypass?

You pray to praise god? That's it? Must sound something like this:

God I want to thank you for everything you've done just for me today. You let that little old lasy across the street get cancer but spared me. You let that poor man over there get aids through a blood transfusion. I'm so glad that you, the creator of everything loves me specifically out of all the 7 billion people in the world. I can't wait to be by your side. Ahhhhhmeeennnnn.

I look around at the world and think, "how can anyone think that this world needed a creator". Read a science journal, learn something.

Jesus is not coming because he probably never existed and was definitely not a god/son of a god (Hercules?). Show me one extra biblical account, from the time of Jesus, that mentions him. I'll wait.......... Yeah, nothing.

Left behind? Where?

And there in your last sentences you show the level of you indoctrination. You feel that it's so important to spread this mental illness, this corruption of the mind, this injustice of knowledge because you do not want to be alone.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#18 Jun 15, 2013
I'm not a brainwashed Christian, thanks awfully. I'm an atheist. Got there after nearly dying after surgery.

But I've learned that you can't argue someone into changing their mind. All you can really do is answer when someone else asks why are you an atheist. That's your chance to plant the seed of thought, not running into a church and hollering YOU'RE ALL BRAINWASHED FOOLS!!!

Doubters will shed their delusions when they're ready, not when you shout at them. Foaming at the mouth atheists are no more attractive and convincing than foaming at the mouth religious people of any flavor.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#19 Jun 15, 2013
Just a side note, though, that I thought of the other day:

Christians claim that all the "good Christians" will be bodily lifted up into Heaven at the Apocalypse, "leaving behind" those who didn't believe or otherwise weren't worthy.

Then Jesus is supposed to come down and fight Satan for 10,000 years or so. Apparently his army will be composed of the people "left behind".

So it sounds to me like the really good, strong people will be left on earth to help fight this apocalyptic battle between good and evil -- all the weaklings will have been purged out by the "Rapture" or whatever.

Now *there's* a thought!
Fritz Miller

Atlanta, GA

#20 Jun 17, 2013
I guess you've never heard of a literal device called "hyperbole".
Atheo Aphobos wrote:
Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer. Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away. Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If Iím converted today, Iíll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to kissing Godís ass. If Iím not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.
Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:
1) And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,`Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
2) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.(Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
3) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.(Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)
4) Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain,'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.(Mark 11:24-25 NAB)
5) And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.(Luke 11:9-13 NAB)
6) And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.(John 14:13-14 NAB)
7) If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.(John 15:7 NAB)
8) It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.(John 15:16 NAB)
9) On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.(John 16:23-24 NAB)
A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible. They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else. If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers. He says God will grant all your prayers. Clearly, God doesnít grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.

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