Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

Aug 4, 2010 Full story: www.cnn.com 201,187

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

Full Story
Gooles

La Puente, CA

#184128 Mar 22, 2013
The Gooles have it.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#184129 Mar 22, 2013
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
what a great story of your family! that's pretty awesome indeed.
i have a couple nephews that are in their 30s that are pretty staunchly anti-homosexual rights, based entirely upon what their church has taught them. yet, they cannot deny what they see in my partner and i - 23 yrs together, faithful to one another, loyal to one another, raising 3 kids that are pretty terrific (sorry, just a little proud of them) and serving our church and community in a similar fashion as they do in their churches and towns. i think in knowing us, in being exposed to us, they're getting a better understanding of the whole issues. we even went to church with one of them a few times in support of them a few yrs back when they had lost a son in a tragic accident...and their pastor even had a light turn on in their head and heart in dealing with us. my nephew said that he learned a good bit from us though that tragedy - we supported them in ways that their siblings and church family couldn't and didn't. i think that forged at least a softer approach in his heart with regards to gay rights.
that's the only way to get through to some people - let them see how we live. a baptist preacher friend told me a few months ago that all things were possible when reasonable people sat down and talked as humans, not as adversaries. we have to learn to reach for the commonalities between us instead of what divides us.
and that's something the politcal parties and the politicians in this country fail to see, fail to act upon. and it's killing us as a nation.
The hard part is the "reasonable people" part ( chuckle )

Big D

Modesto, CA

#184130 Mar 22, 2013
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
and that's something the politcal parties and the politicians in this country fail to see, fail to act upon. and it's killing us as a nation.
This is so true, you know when I was young, someone from the opposing political party was looked at as a fellow patriot, someone that loves this country that just disagreed on a few issues.

Today, the other party is the enemy

( I am at fault for that too )

The truth is, we agree on 95% and could compromise on the other 5% if we could sit down without all the pressure of the current politics we live with.

My kids tell me I am too hard core on some political issues, that there is a middle ground we could all agree on Ö they are probably right.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#184131 Mar 22, 2013
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
You might want to update your copy/paste posts.
Several states have voted for gay marriage.
California would be one of them if the vote were held again today

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184132 Mar 22, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
You may miss the days when divorce was more difficult, battered women ( or men ) stuck where they could not get out, molested children where they wife would actively turn her had the other way as she had no where else she could go other than to cover it up.
I donít
Huh? How about not throwing the baby out with the bath water? There's a difference between abuse and criminal activity and simply divorcing for trivial matters. So its okay that a wife or husband can no fault divorce, but can be charged criminally in some states for adultery? How about states that allow the offended spouse to sue the "other woman", or "other man"? Do you disagree with that?
Our marriages are stronger today because of how easy divorce is.
there is a saying you may have heard of. "He that doeth evil hateth the light", that applies directly here.
Are they really? Look at the divorce rate, much higher than my parents and grandparents generation, as with the cohabitiation rate, and out of wedlock birthrates.
Today marriages are more active, couples do things together to keep their marriages alive and strong and rely less on a piece of paper to keep it so.
If its only a "piece of paper" why get married, legally, at all then?
I prefer my wife to be my wife because she wants to be my wife, not because some piece of paper makes her so.
So why did you seek out that piece of paper?
What is it that you are so afraid of? What is it that you want to do so desperately that you know it is too easy for your wife to divorce you for?
It's a fear that my children are growing up in a culture that takes it commitments lightly, that marriage has become just another "life style choice". I have been married for 20 plus years, my parents were married until the day my father passed away. Both sets of grandparents, immigrants from southern Italy, were also married until my grandfathers passed away. All save one, of my siblings are married, two, like me, 20 plus years. There's an old expression, that I think Leo Buscaliga once said, or may have borrowed from his Sicilian grand mother, in regards to marriage: "Divorce never....murder...maybe".
You may not be old enough to remember, but I can tell you, the good old days werenít all that good, and tomorrow is not as bad as it seems.( I should call Billy Joel and get permission to use that )
I never said the good old days were always good, nor tommorrow is as bad as it seems. I say Billy Joel at Yankee Stadium in the mid '80's by the way. But there was a time when a marriage vow meant far more than it does today. We both know that.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#184133 Mar 22, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? How about not throwing the baby out with the bath water? There's a difference between abuse and criminal activity and simply divorcing for trivial matters. So its okay that a wife or husband can no fault divorce, but can be charged criminally in some states for adultery? How about states that allow the offended spouse to sue the "other woman", or "other man"? Do you disagree with that?
<quoted text>
Are they really? Look at the divorce rate, much higher than my parents and grandparents generation, as with the cohabitiation rate, and out of wedlock birthrates.
<quoted text>
If its only a "piece of paper" why get married, legally, at all then?
<quoted text>
So why did you seek out that piece of paper?
<quoted text>
It's a fear that my children are growing up in a culture that takes it commitments lightly, that marriage has become just another "life style choice". I have been married for 20 plus years, my parents were married until the day my father passed away. Both sets of grandparents, immigrants from southern Italy, were also married until my grandfathers passed away. All save one, of my siblings are married, two, like me, 20 plus years. There's an old expression, that I think Leo Buscaliga once said, or may have borrowed from his Sicilian grand mother, in regards to marriage: "Divorce never....murder...maybe".
<quoted text>
I never said the good old days were always good, nor tommorrow is as bad as it seems. I say Billy Joel at Yankee Stadium in the mid '80's by the way. But there was a time when a marriage vow meant far more than it does today. We both know that.
congratulations on the 20+ years of married life. you obviously learned from your parents' marriage that was a life-long committment. i learned the same from my parents. my partner & i have been together over 23 yrs and are raising 3 kisd together. if we could legally marry, then we could protect all the assets we've built together as a couple, just the same as you and your wife (or husband?)(sorry, not sure of your gender, not that it matters in this electronic world).

but consider that also, back in our grandparent's days, and most likely even in our parent's days - a divorce was a black mark on a person - they were looked down upon. society was vastly different then, even if a woman left her husband for valid reasons of affairs, abuse, alcholism or drug abuse or any number of good reasons a woman should leave a man. it just wasn't acceptable for a grown adult woman to be single or divorced. that attributed to the lower divorce rate back then.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#184134 Mar 22, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? How about not throwing the baby out with the bath water? There's a difference between abuse and criminal activity and simply divorcing for trivial matters. So its okay that a wife or husband can no fault divorce, but can be charged criminally in some states for adultery? How about states that allow the offended spouse to sue the "other woman", or "other man"? Do you disagree with that?
.
All marriage will ever be, from a legal perspective, is a contract.
Our government isnít in the God business, not in the religion business, not in the culture business.

Our government is in the law business, and their view ( and recognition of ) marriage is only from a legal perspective.
it will always be officially - a piece of paper - form a legal perspective

Now you have a club that wants to make it harder to divorce, go for it, make rules for you club, but donít expect others not of your club to be bound to your clubs rules.

In all your ranting you have yet to explain why divorce is worse than murder. Remember I donít care from a religious perspective, I donít care from a historical perspective, but from the legal perspective of government.

For myself, my wife and I wanted to marry, and we have wanted to stay married as a symbol to one another of our continued commitment to one another. I know it is just a piece of paper to the government, but it means more to us, and I could care less what it means to some church down the street.

I would like to share that with all Americans, regardless of orientation, that they too can make it what they want it to be, and to the garbage can with any that donít want them to.

I personally donít take my commitments lightly, however if I became an abuser, if I changed to be someone other than who I was when she married me, if I made her life miserable because of those changes, I would expect her to divorce me, in fact, I would be proud of her for doing so.

All of my children are married ( save one... one daughter left to go, please send donations for the wedding ) and they too actively work to keep their marriage alive and fresh, and a living thing.
Marriage today, is stronger because of the ease of divorce, making divorce more difficult will only make marriage weaker

I think it helps people that divorce is not all that difficult, that they need to actively engage in their marriages, to keep them healthy, and not the "ah ha... now you married me and are stuck with me so I can be abusive"

what is it that you are so afraid of? What is it that you want to do that your wife is likely to divorce you for?

I did like your question though, it is a lot like the "why donít you become a murderer if you donít think there is a hell?" And the answer is, because this is my life, and I respect my life. I have me to wake up to every morning, and that is going to be someone I am proud to be.

I worry when people ask questions like that, makes me think maybe I should be happy there is religion, because some people would be horrible human beings if they didnít have that threat.

Me... I am past the threat, I am a decent person because I want to be. I donít need punishment or reward to be a decent human being.
I can tell you though. my marriage vow is more than the guy that marries someone and then becomes abusive because he knows he can rely on that piece of paper to keep him married.

My vows are stronger, because they are a living choice, that I hold dear, not an excuse to become a jerk. I disagree, Marriage today, is stronger because of the ease of divorce, making divorce more difficult will only make marriage weaker
Big D

Modesto, CA

#184135 Mar 22, 2013
I will grant you one thing, jerks who have no respect for their marriage, have a weaker marriage because of the ease of divorce

but that is a good thing
Gregory Dale

Burlington, WI

#184136 Mar 22, 2013
Kimare is soooooo completely out of touch with mainstream Christianity. It's no wonder he didn't have a successful career in the United Church of Christ (UCC) as a pastor in Hawaii. The UCC, of course, has always been at the forefront of social activism. Kimare's beliefs, however, would set social issues back at least one century.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184137 Mar 22, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove that the primary purpose of marriage is, and has always been, to restrain people's mating behaviors.
Prove that it is and always has been successful in doing that.
Then prove that gay folks marrying will cause straight people to mate with even less restraint.
1. Didn't say 'restraint'. Social scientists say it is a constraint, you prove it's not.

2. No one said it had to be successful

3. There is no such thing as gay 'marriage'. The only result of saying there is, would be the redefinition of the word. Meaning that ss couples would still not really be married in the true sense of the word.

Smirk.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184138 Mar 22, 2013
Some Never Came Home wrote:
<quoted text>
To bad you're on the losing side of history! And thank god we have a Constitution to protect us from "Bigots" like you! Marriage equality is coming and there is nothing you can do about it,so better get out of the way or be crushed by the Constitutional weight of it all come this June! And the truth of the matter is you can't give any valid reasons as to how a same sex marriage will affect yours at all or how it would harm your marriage! Valid reasons not B.S.! I'm married 35 years and I fail to see how marriage equality will affect or cause harm to my marriage in any way shape or form! Religion does NOT enter into the equation at all,SECULAR country!
This link is why Prop 8 is Unconstitutional!
www.afer.org/our-work/our-arguments/
What an ignorant joke,'the wrong side of history'!

In all of recorded history, every single culture has had marriage.

In all that time, not one SINGLE culture has embraced ss marriage from start to finish. It barely shows up, and quickly disappears. It NEVER has established itself and spread.

You can't blame a Christian, you can't blame the Republicans, you can't blame a single culture.

Do you understand how profound that is?

At this point, it's you who is on 'the wrong side of history'.

Snicker.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#184139 Mar 22, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
What an ignorant joke,'the wrong side of history'!
In all of recorded history, every single culture has had marriage.
In all that time, not one SINGLE culture has embraced ss marriage from start to finish. It barely shows up, and quickly disappears. It NEVER has established itself and spread.
You can't blame a Christian, you can't blame the Republicans, you can't blame a single culture.
Do you understand how profound that is?
SSM did exist and would have continued had it not been for Christianity. So, as you can see, we can blame Christianity.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184140 Mar 22, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolutionary speaking homosexuality has been identified as naturel in 37 documented mammal species, it is a natural occurrence. I didnít realize you were such a big fan of Evolution.
Your desire to make them not equal by law is a very anti-American stance, you should look for other nations that enforce cultural, traditional and religion.
The Taliban is like that, you should contact them, and maybe they are accepting converts
Wow!!!

I go from a scientific statement to being 'anti-American' to be a Taliban!

This in an effort to divert from disproving the basic essence of marriage; a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Do you really think your ad homoan attack disproved that fact?

Not to mention, the one 'scientific' point you posted was wrong on several counts. Same sex sexual behavior (SSSB, the term that science uses), not 'homosexuality' is probably evident in ALL animal species. They do not term it 'natural', because it violates the basic premise of evolution.

However, that corrected point still does nothing to dispel the basic essence of marriage.

Something that clearly, absolutely and indisputably distinguishes between marriage and ss couples.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184141 Mar 22, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
Animals generally kill members of their own species, even family that try to eat their kids... so do we. I support the death penalty
But the point I am making is that homosexuality is not in any why singular to humans or opposed to "natural" as it is a part of the natural world.
No I think we have done well as our species gained the intelligence to form into groups, create cultural ties, and even ( rolls eyes ) government. Although our species has certainly not found the "perfect government" it is an effort, and a constantly striving and evolving process.
Our founders for example, a rather large number of them wanted a classed society, where only the wealthy could vote, they were shouted down and instead started a more equality based society.
We have evolved far from there, and are continuing to evolve.
always toward Freedom, Justice and Equality, that is why I am an American. It is impossible to take my patriotism away from me, but it is a principal I am a patriot to, not a flag, not a set of boundaries, not name of a country.
We have done well, not perfect, but well, other nations have as well and I applaud them. In the long run, always bet on what is right, I do, and am usually not disappointed. I am willing to make a wager now that I will not be disappointed when the Supreme Court makes its ruling.
Recognizing of same sex marriage is right, it is justice, it is equality, and fits with my patriotism to the ideal that America strives for ( and never quite achieves, as all good goals are )
We Americans
We distinguish human rights for a number of different classifications. SCOTUS has done so a number of times because marriage is the best birthplace of every member of society.

You claim a ss couple who is mutually procreative desolate deserves the same rights and protections? Do you understand how stupid and ridiculous that is?

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184142 Mar 22, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, how about we put it this way... There are many "Christians" who claim to be pro-life, who are pro-capital punishment and pro-war.
And there are many people who claim to be Christian, who believe in abortion in instances of rape, incest, danger to the mother's life, and/or mental/physical defect of the fetus.
So, don't lie and say that "Christians" as a concerted group would NEVER abort a fetus they believe is going to become gay. Because we BOTH know that's not the case.
If we lived in a society where all of those people who claim to be Christians REFUSED to go to war, REFUSED to own guns, REFUSED to in any way support capital punishment, and REFUSED to abort their children; then MAYBE I would agree with you.
1.2 million abortions are performed in the U.S. annually. Many of those abortions are performed on church going, Christ believing women. They justify it for many reasons. Telling them that they're going to have a gay/transgender son or daughter will simply be another reason for them to justify it.
That's reality... And it's people like you--who claim that we are defective--that we are "sinners"--that we destroy the family, etc; people like YOU who give will be giving them the motivation to abort.
You don't get to bitch about the existence of homosexuality--wanting us to disappear from the planet--and not have blood on your hands.
With all your 'moral' indignation, you somehow missed admitting you lied about what you claimed I said. Kind of makes the rest of your rant suspect.

Once again, you dig the hole deeper. Nothing you said changes the fact that killing an unborn child is murder, and a obedient Christian would never do it.

Moreover, the Bible is also clear about just war and just execution for severe crimes. Your assertion would leave people like Hitler loose. Are you serious???

Nor do I claim anything. Evolution determined homosexuality is a defect. Scientists have virtually proved it. You are having a hissy fit because I'm the messenger.

Hardly wise behavior for someone whose existence depends on people like me...

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184143 Mar 22, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me in law where marriage MUST BE based on a cross cultural constraint of evolutionary mating.
Show me any jurisdiction in the country that refuses to allow marriage that is not based on a cross cultural constraint of evolutionary mating.
Waiting...
1. Of course it doesn't have to be. The law determined that faithfulness to a mate was unnecessary with no-fault divorce. Now we have horrendous consequences of domestic violence and child abuse. Not to mention a devastating drop in every area of the social health of children of divorce.

Now there is a silly and stupid attempt to dumb down marriage to a friendship of any gender, totally denying the part of children. Any sensible person would say the law will be two for two if that happens.

2. That would be like the law requiring sex or children or any other such silly demands.

Here is an analogy that exposes that idiocy;

The differences between marriage with/without kids and gay couples;

An apple tree bearing fruit.
An apple tree not bearing fruit for some reason.
An walnut tree who never bears any fruit wanting to be a apple tree.
An walnut tree hanging apples on it's branches pretending to be a apple tree.

Even funnier?

The claim that if the government doesn't 'require' apple trees to bear fruit, then it is discrimination not to call walnut trees apple trees too!

Smile.

“"Into This World Were Thrown"”

Since: Sep 12

"Into This World Were Born"

#184144 Mar 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Proposition 8 won at the polls; that proves same sex marriage is antidemocratic.
And with yet one more bumper sticker post from Brian,3 words come to mind! Maine,Maryland and Washington state! Now what Bri? LOL

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184145 Mar 22, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
I would add that there are thousands of Christian churches that support same sex marriage and want to preform them in their churches.... why are their religious rights being denied?
You are right, Christians are not one block that speak with one voice, that has not been the case ever, and particularly not since the ending of the dark ages.
Not to mention that they are NOT the only religon in this country.
Don't forget they are the dying liberal denominations that have long ago abandoned the historic adherence to the Christian faith and designed their own religion.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#184146 Mar 22, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
We distinguish human rights for a number of different classifications. SCOTUS has done so a number of times because marriage is the best birthplace of every member of society.
You claim a ss couple who is mutually procreative desolate deserves the same rights and protections? Do you understand how stupid and ridiculous that is?
Smile.
Yes I think couples that donít have the ability or desire to have childrenís marriages are as important as yours and deserve the same rights.

The difference between us is that I donít need to run other folks down to make myself feel better.

I am sure glad donít need your approval for my marriage as your opinion is meaningless to me.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#184147 Mar 22, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't forget they are the dying liberal denominations that have long ago abandoned the historic adherence to the Christian faith and designed their own religion.
LOL so you think you have the right to deny other churches their rights, hope you are ready to grant me the same right with respect to yours.

I will not abide a tyrant, you donít get to decide anything for anyone else.

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