Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#107098
Jun 17, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
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ROFL! "Moral compass?"
"...I was not making a lot of money,I learned to scheme,planned car accidents,so I could sue,stole a blank baptisimal certificate,used that to establish a phony identification,used that to establish credit and defrauded anumber of clothing and furniture stores. Raised additional cash by borrowing $3000. from HFC...."
You don't know anything about the other Topix participants except what you've read in their posts, yet you are their judge and jury solely according to your un-evidenced spiritual redemption and a myopic interpretation of the Bible? You are squinting in the dark to misread a map that's thousands of years old upside down.
Foolish one,I am neither their judge or jury.
It is God who judges them as he judged me.I claim no self righteousness,as evidenced by my confession,which you posted above.
Not only that but,I admit to my fallen human nature as described in the following;God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
That I was controlled by the abovementioned desires before I came to know Christ,I have no problem in admitting.
That God,Christ and the Holy Spirit changed the way i conducted my life previouysly,is a fact.
That you are unable to comprehend that change,seems fairly obvious.
That you are attempting to negate that change by claiming that I am not perfect is absurd. I have never claimed to be perfect.
You claim that my belief and trust in Christ is invalid because I
call you foolish for not believing in God.So the Bible says,The fool has said in his heart,There is no God.
The fact that I do not repeatedly turn the other cheek when continuously called a moron,does not negate God's word,simply confirms my human weakness.
I know the change that God has wrought in my life.
Nothing that can be said or done by unbelievers can change that

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#107100
Jun 17, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I imagine that one with no moral code,would interpret it in such a mannner....
But,we ignore those with no moral compass....
They are lost and travelling on the road to nowhere.
You support stoning children, you have no room to measure other people's ethics.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#107101
Jun 17, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Foolish one,I am neither their judge or jury.
It is God who judges them as he judged me.I claim no self righteousness,as evidenced by my confession,which you posted above.
Not only that but,I admit to my fallen human nature as described in the following;God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
That I was controlled by the abovementioned desires before I came to know Christ,I have no problem in admitting.
That God,Christ and the Holy Spirit changed the way i conducted my life previouysly,is a fact.
That you are unable to comprehend that change,seems fairly obvious.
That you are attempting to negate that change by claiming that I am not perfect is absurd. I have never claimed to be perfect.
You claim that my belief and trust in Christ is invalid because I
call you foolish for not believing in God.So the Bible says,The fool has said in his heart,There is no God.
The fact that I do not repeatedly turn the other cheek when continuously called a moron,does not negate God's word,simply confirms my human weakness.
I know the change that God has wrought in my life.
Nothing that can be said or done by unbelievers can change that
Spare me the reams of cut and paste - I've already read it.
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

I don't claim that the escapades of your teens and twenties negates changes in your life. I'm just reminding that you're in no position to cast stones at people you've never met from high atop a religious pedestal. Often as not, you're the provocateur in the exchanges - which I'm quite alright with as long as you're honest about it. The banter and trade which peppers the exchange of ideas is what keeps the thread interesting.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107102
Jun 17, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Look it up if you don't believe me. Relief effort by religious groups is very easy to find.
You made the claim. The onus of evidence is upon you.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107103
Jun 17, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a Christian. I always have been. The only difference is I do not believe it is right to tell God He can't speak to us anymore because we already have His Bible.
So you were a Christian before you knew what a Christian was?
All babies are atheist.
But of course you followed the beliefs of your parents (Christian) just as 80% of all humans do. This is why religion is geographical.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107104
Jun 17, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry but I didn't follow my peers on this matter, or my family. I studied the religion from people who live it, just like I always did with every religion I studied. And this was the only religion I researched that I received an answer that I cannot deny was outside of my head or capabilities.
You are a Christian. I have zero doubt your parents were Christian and their parents were Christian and so on for many generations.
Now your particular flavor of Christianity is a bit different, but the general denomination is the same.
If you live in America, your peers are also Christian.
I would be surprised if you had many Muslim friends. The way you speak of atheists, you clearly have no atheist peers.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107105
Jun 17, 2013
 

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ProvenScience wrote:
<quoted text>
How do some totally scientific minds temporarily explain severe thunder and lightning in wee early morning hours to scared witless three year olds, unable to yet grasp the natural concepts of occurence?
"Angels bowling in heaven"...and a grounding rod.
How "horrible" of them huh?
(I think not).
Actually, telling a kid the storms are of some sort of spirits can be very scary. Kids often think the spirits are out to get them like a boogie man.
You can lie to your kids if you wish, but I think the truth is better in this case. It might actually help them understand their world instead of confusing them.
Thunder is nothing but the sonic boom created from lighting cutting through the air. The sound is harmless.
I often conduct little experiments in thunderstorms. I will shake my fists at the sky and dare god to strike me down.
I often see my friends scatter. I get a good laugh out of it.
But then I ask them if they really think a god is controlling lighting. They often realize at that moment how silly they are being.
The lies their parents told them do not shake easily.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107106
Jun 17, 2013
 
ProvenScience wrote:
<quoted text>
How do some totally scientific minds temporarily explain severe thunder and lightning in wee early morning hours to scared witless three year olds, unable to yet grasp the natural concepts of occurence?
"Angels bowling in heaven"...and a grounding rod.
How "horrible" of them huh?
(I think not).
I hear in the old days, the religious would sometimes not put up lightning rods and called the people who did, sinners who were trying to divert the will of god.
How silly is that?
Lets not pass on this silliness to our kids.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107107
Jun 17, 2013
 
ProvenScience wrote:
<quoted text>
How do some totally scientific minds temporarily explain severe thunder and lightning in wee early morning hours to scared witless three year olds, unable to yet grasp the natural concepts of occurence?
"Angels bowling in heaven"...and a grounding rod.
How "horrible" of them huh?
(I think not).
Likely how god was invented.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107108
Jun 17, 2013
 
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Stupid, but not horrible. It's fairly harmless at that age. Kinda like Santa, but you must be proactive and tell them the truth when they can understand it.
What's horrible is when you tell them impossible fairy tales that they believe and continue to do so into adulthood, never allowing them to question its validity and threatening them with eternal torture if they try to. Then the poor child wanders through life believing in things they have absolutely no reason to, instead of reality, and wastes a significant amount of their finite existence doing the things that they think their fairy tale requires and brainwashing the next generation into doing the same.
So, yeah, I think that people shouldn't believe in Zeus (or any other Greek God), and they certainly shouldn't tell their children to. Very horrible.
I think even the Santa story confuses them of reality. Reality needs to be instilled at a young age.
Santa may seem harmless, but the idea of magic does nothing but confuse one from reality.
Perpetrating a lie for years and years upon your children is never the healthy way to go.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107109
Jun 17, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
You atheists keep regurtitating the same nonsense.
If you want to know God,seek him diligently,He will reveal himself,
That is the formula
Do not ask me to reveal him to you,I can not.
If you want to know him,you must seek him for yourself.
If you are not willing to take the necessary steps,then stop complaining.
Hearing the same nonsense,time and again,gets boring and inexcusable after a while.....
Been there, done that, and now know the feelings I had were nothing but what I believed, nothing more.
BTW, did you really just accuse me of regurgitating nonsense then you made this statement for the umpteenth time?
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#107110
Jun 17, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a Christian. I always have been. The only difference is I do not believe it is right to tell God He can't speak to us anymore because we already have His Bible.

I believe you are living the Christian Life, showing your Christianity in the right manner. I respect that, and all who choose to live that life. The problem I have is those that confess God/Jesus as their personal savior, yet their actions show/prove the opposite.
Kinda like saying.. I know God said not to lie,,,,But
I know God said not to steal,,,,But
I know God said not to curse,,,,But
I know God said not to say Thou Fool ,,,,, But

Anything a person says before the word (but) is not taken seriously because anything a person says after the word (but) is nothing but an excuse for that very thing which they were specifically told not to do! I have a problem with that. I call those type people hypocrites!

I'm just judging a Tree by the Fruit it Bears!

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

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#107111
Jun 17, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Do not blame God for your poor mental condition.
Nothing wrong with my mental condition.
My synapes are firing just fine.
curious wrote:
<quoted text> It is each one's personal resposibility to provide one's mind with spiritual maintenance. To not do so,leads to a defective mind....
It's your responsibility to provide your mind with data, all that you can, in order to make logical rational decisions about how you live your life.
Not working out so well for you, is it?
curious wrote:
<quoted text> Where foolishness prevails,where one may be led to conclude that life emanated spontaneously,from non living matter,by accident.
Where one may be led to conclude that;
If you ever wondered about the origin of intelligence in humans and other mammals, here's the answer
And here is an perfect example of your problem.
There is NOT a "THE answer."
There are only possible answers based on the information we have now.
But you can't stand not knowing, can you?
You would rather make up answers like "goddidit."
curious wrote:
<quoted text> from a team of researchers led by Professor Seth Grant of the University of Edinburgh.
A genetic accident experienced by an invertebrate sea animal, about 500 million years ago, led to extra copies of brain genes being made. These extra genes benefited the sea animal's descendants, leading to behaviorally sophisticated vertebrates, including humans, suggest the scientists.
The rationality contained in these beliefs can only be explained and understood by foolish minds,but,as with all foolishness,have no place in the real world.
LOL! "The real world." Is that the one you people with invisible superbeings like gods, demons, angels and so forth?
You are priceless!

It's really too bad you don't understand evolution.
Ah well...your loss.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

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#107113
Jun 17, 2013
 

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ProvenSCIENCE wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know what's stupid?
You are-for being so ignorant in thinking that people that might have beliefs and minds of their own wouldn't or don't havehave walking around sense.
And I'm about to show you just exactly HOW stupid and IGNORANT that is.
hat was told to ME one bad stormy night, by my own male parent, an orphan-most likely due to the polio epidemics of the 30's who held a MASTERS PLUS (count 'em--Seven years FORMAL education) and TAUGHT SCIENCE for THIRTY.
And here's a virtual smack in your ignorant mouth.
There was NO living in an sort FAIRY TALE about it-NONE, NADA, NOTHING, but the HARD work of a man who served his countries requirement of, who served his countries service requirements, then had sense AND gumption
enough to get himself educated, so as to be a vital, productive member of society and take care of his family-rather than be a suck of a givverment LEACH. A man who never took a dime he didn't EARN himself from any body--for ANYTHING, except through his own ETHICS of a lifetime of WORK. A man who taught two girls and THEN some, where the REAL "spirit" of such behind "Santa Claus" was about--HUMBLY, with out pride or ignorant vain arrogance, or expectation of any sort of public "for show aknowledgement".
A man who also taught his own-as well as MANY, MANY others, over THIRTY years, MANY valuable life lessons-aside from Science, such as the importance of being PERSONALLY responsibility for ones SELF, NEVER shielding the REALITY of the REAL world of NO FREE LUNCHES-EVERYBODY contributes, and when people are doing their humane best-DECENT people do NOT complain, especially out some sort of WARPED entitlement that they deserve more than what they could even EVER think about giving themselves.
That also meant being grateful for the basic human needs being provided and when and if we wanted more-we were whole heartedly ENCOURAGED to GET OUT THERE AND EARN IT-HONESTLY--off our OWN accord. And that ETHIC of WORK and personal responsibility taught us well, well enough to have helped us contribute to the family structure at early ages, ratehr than expecting UNrealistic expectations of ONE mere human, by taking on responsibilities such as paying our own incrued BILLS at young teen ages, such as proms, our own cars (purchased with our OWN WORKED for paychecks) the insurance for them, clothes and a host of other personal choices we chose to endevour.
We were also WELL taught the difference between RIGHT and WRONG--NEVER being "threatened" with any of that "hell fire" hatefulness, because we were taught we reaped what we sowed-HERE-on this earth...as in MORE personal accountability for ones own actions!
We were also taught that TIME is a terrible thing to WASTE-so therefore, we never had TIME to WASTE on entertaining ANY unrealistic expectations of some "fantasy world" because our lives have ALWAYS been full- Productively and Positively busy--- WORKING and EARNING our OWN ways!!
And when that same man became ill after many years of nose to the grindstone-the LAST book I watched him personally study with intent-Was-THE BIBLE. That's right-the BIBLE...as read by a man of SCIENCE.
Probably because he WELL knew the difference in the USELESSNESS of mere greek mythology and what ANY other people or culture believed, and that of what would HELP in his OWN spiritual guidance.
And posts like yours just make me realize all the more- just HOW blessed I was- to have had grown up at the knee of such ENLIGHTENMENT and common sense-rather than that of IGNORANCE and hate.
Because Enlightenment and Common Sense, has served me
WELL...FAR more so than bred of ignorance and hate could ever comprehend.
GOD BLESS his HEART for it-where ever it may now rest--and a Happy Fathers' Day tribute to my OWN DAD...because he certainly lives ON in mine.
Why you so mad? You can't handle the truth?
Sam

Monticello, KY

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#107115
Jun 18, 2013
 

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ProvenScience wrote:
<quoted text>
How do some totally scientific minds temporarily explain severe thunder and lightning in wee early morning hours to scared witless three year olds, unable to yet grasp the natural concepts of occurence?
"Angels bowling in heaven"...and a grounding rod.
How "horrible" of them huh?
(I think not).
I taught my little ones about thunder and lightening and how without lightening we would not have food from gardens to eat, because lightening puts nutrients and minerals in the ground needed for growth. I tell them we need to be cautious of it, but not scared "witless". They are not afraid. I explain that high winds and tornadoes can do harm and that is why we get out of it's way.(take shelter). I never tell them silly lies. The truth does not scare them, but seeing the aftermath of a storm on TV needs an explanation better than a bowling tournament gone really bad.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#107118
Jun 18, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't tell you how to vote? LOL! Do you think for a moment that churches don't create and endorse voter "guides?" I don't tell you what to think or what to do. I don't even tell curious or YaA that - I tell them TO think and to NOT forsake spiritual principles. I can and will point out when someone is being duplicitous, facetious, irrational, and in your case, captious.
that was to ps. I looked up the last word, since my first impression was to take it as a very funny word you had coined to attack his use of so many capital letters! you have to admit that would be a good second definition in his case!
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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Jun 18, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, telling a kid the storms are of some sort of spirits can be very scary. Kids often think the spirits are out to get them like a boogie man.
You can lie to your kids if you wish, but I think the truth is better in this case. It might actually help them understand their world instead of confusing them.
Thunder is nothing but the sonic boom created from lighting cutting through the air. The sound is harmless.
I often conduct little experiments in thunderstorms. I will shake my fists at the sky and dare god to strike me down.
I often see my friends scatter. I get a good laugh out of it.
But then I ask them if they really think a god is controlling lighting. They often realize at that moment how silly they are being.
The lies their parents told them do not shake easily.
Terrible storms, fires, floods, and sealevel rise, etc, and drought are caused by Senator Inhofe and the Koch Brothers. evil spirits, so to speak.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#107120
Jun 18, 2013
 

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havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> that was to ps. I looked up the last word, since my first impression was to take it as a very funny word you had coined to attack his use of so many capital letters! you have to admit that would be a good second definition in his case!
I hadn't been trying for a play on words, a pun or some made up NOcentS word, just a descriptor that seemed to fit.
I try not to use caps unless I am emphasizing an inflection or the importance of a word in context, since Topix has no means that I know of for displaying italics. I may be wrong, but I believe he is a she.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107122
Jun 18, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
God provided us with a nature that needs spiritual maintenance in order to function properly.
That maintenance is provided by following god's intructions;
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
If one fails to do that and permits ones human desires to control him,then that opens the door for immorality,selfishness and greed to control us.
In order to correct that condition,we need guidance from Christ and the comforter,which he promised.
Those who have asked for and received the Holy Spirit can attest to it's power...
Those who have not,can speculate,based on their nonknowledge,and concoct misinformed opinions on a subject they are unable to grasp or comprehend......
of course,Unbelievers will ask for evidence....
Unable and unwilling to seek it for themselves...
I have never heard a single word from a god, and yet I live and I live well. But keep regurgitating propaganda as required by dogma.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#107123
Jun 18, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Foolish one,I am neither their judge or jury.
It is God who judges them as he judged me.I claim no self righteousness,as evidenced by my confession,which you posted above.
Not only that but,I admit to my fallen human nature as described in the following;God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
That I was controlled by the abovementioned desires before I came to know Christ,I have no problem in admitting.
That God,Christ and the Holy Spirit changed the way i conducted my life previouysly,is a fact.
That you are unable to comprehend that change,seems fairly obvious.
That you are attempting to negate that change by claiming that I am not perfect is absurd. I have never claimed to be perfect.
You claim that my belief and trust in Christ is invalid because I
call you foolish for not believing in God.So the Bible says,The fool has said in his heart,There is no God.
The fact that I do not repeatedly turn the other cheek when continuously called a moron,does not negate God's word,simply confirms my human weakness.
I know the change that God has wrought in my life.
Nothing that can be said or done by unbelievers can change that
Regurgitate.

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