Do you think housing values will come back up in Florissant?

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Curious

Florissant, MO

#1 Feb 15, 2013
We own a "flat top" home. It was purchased in 2003-- and it is currently very underwater. We cannot stay due to our family size and the school system here. I have looked into renting the home out but it needs many updates, and if the general consensus from other residents is it is only getting worse here and thus property will never reach 2003 values, we will base our decision from there.

Thank you for your responses in advance.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

#3 Feb 15, 2013
If its ant consolation, folks are upside down everywhere, including Ladue and Chesterfield, and particularly in the exburbs of St Charles County (unfortunately where I live).

You don't mention whether you have been paying your mortgage(s), but I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the various programs for mortgage forgiveness, principal reduction, and voluntary relinquishment. I understand that there are more programs coming and there will be special programs for minorities and underserved communities, and possibly you will qualify for one or both.

Unfortunately, to qualify, you may need to stop making your mortgage payments, so you will want to do your homework and get some professional advice in this regard. There are now lawyers advertising these types of services.

You may first want to contact a company called Beyond Housing. They helped a lot of single black mothers buy houses in my FLOMO neighborhood, and from what those girls have told me, BH seem to know every trick in the book.

If you are in the FTs, I understand your concern schoolwise. Another option may be to buy or rent a cheap foreclosure in the attendance area of one of the still okay HSD grade schools that feed into Hazelwood West.

Good luck-and don't forget the private school option.
curious

United States

#4 Feb 15, 2013
Yes, we have been paying the mortgage faithfully since 2003. We refinanced so the payment is low but staying is still not an option. The size of the home is far too small for our family. I looked into the private schools but for the price of that for three children we could be renting in St. Charles or West County. The house has not been updated as it should have been, which is our fault, but now we are looking at 15k in improvements at a house that is 40k under water. We paid far too much for the home.

I feel as if foreclosure or died in lieu is our only option to get us out of here. The market down the street was robbed recently and I honestly do not even feel safe here any longer. We would rent it out if we can, but there are rehabbed homes on our street up for rent that have been sitting. Foreclosures on our streets and others in the area are going for 25k or less.
taxpayer

Saint Peters, MO

#5 Feb 15, 2013
Reverend Vegas wrote:
I should have listened to the people who I thought were just being racist.
Yeah, like that would have made a difference.
assesments lowering

United States

#6 Feb 15, 2013
county assessments for ths area are going to go down again, hurting the school districts and other taxing districts. Get ready for lots of appeals for increased property tax and other tax to float our government out of trouble.
Government does not know how to cut back or do with less. We are in for another round of decreasing values.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

#7 Feb 16, 2013
curious wrote:
Yes, we have been paying the mortgage faithfully since 2003. We refinanced so the payment is low but staying is still not an option. The size of the home is far too small for our family. I looked into the private schools but for the price of that for three children we could be renting in St. Charles or West County. The house has not been updated as it should have been, which is our fault, but now we are looking at 15k in improvements at a house that is 40k under water. We paid far too much for the home.
I feel as if foreclosure or died in lieu is our only option to get us out of here. The market down the street was robbed recently and I honestly do not even feel safe here any longer. We would rent it out if we can, but there are rehabbed homes on our street up for rent that have been sitting. Foreclosures on our streets and others in the area are going for 25k or less.
Actually, not that its any consolation, but those numbers are a lot lower than the numbers I hear in St Charles County.

I doubt that the neighborhood is going to improve, and with the incoming demographic, I don't see the kind of investment that would lead to a rebound.

With the Big O's second term, there are new home buyer programs for minorities and underserved community coming down the pike. So, once all that is in place, you may put the house on the market and be able to get your mortgage holder to agree to a short sale. The banks will be under a lot of pressure to lend to minorities and in underserved communities again, so things could actually work out nicely for you. The only hitch is that your FT house is actually rather small, most of the minority buyers seem to favor larger houses like in Barrington Downs and surrounding subs. Houses out there are selling for under $100k.

If a short sale is not likely, and you decide on the foreclosure or deed in lieu of foreclosure route, it seems rather pointless to be making your payments at this time, IMHO. You might as well just get the ball rolling, you've got to get your kids in good safe schools. Every month they are in RW Elem they are falling behind. That would be my priority.

I still recommend that you call Beyond Housing and see what they might suggest. They probably can't say it, but you will probably need to stop payments on the mortgage to open the right doors for anything that they can do for you, so you may couch your questions in the context that you can no longer pay and see what they say. I would not feel the least bit guilty about it either, the lenders and the banks created your problem. You and your children are victims of very bad gov't policy.

Good luck.
hardhead

Saint Louis, MO

#8 Feb 16, 2013
as long as there is blacks living in your neighbor hood you can forget about any value coming back to your property, nobody wants to live next door to them.
Disgusted

Valley Park, MO

#9 Feb 17, 2013
You can forget about ever getting close to pre-2008 property values. No one in his right mind would move to this area if he had the means to afford a home in an area with a decent school district, shopping choices, etc. I lost $70k on my house, and while that was a bitter pill to swallow, waiting any longer would only have increased that amount. Get out, and get out now. Look around you. Do you honestly believe that you're going to see a return of the Florissant you once knew? That is a fantasy. All of the loyalists that bravely declare that they're not going to surrender and imply that you're a coward for leaving know in their hearts that the battle is lost (that, or they're just too effing stupid to understand what's happening). Their pride won't do them much good when they find themselves trapped in a ghetto. Two words: school districts. HSD and FF are beyond saving, but you can bet they'll try, and on your backs - rising property taxes to fund "initiatives" that have failed elsewhere and will fail here. If you care about the educational opportunities available for your children, you would move out ASAP (and certainly not move into the area).
Hop in your car and take a spin through Wellston, Pagedale, Spanish Lake, and Pine Lawn - THAT IS YOUR FUTURE IF YOU STAY.
hardhead

Saint Louis, MO

#10 Feb 17, 2013
agree with every word
assessment

Florissant, MO

#11 Feb 17, 2013
I am sorry to say, that you paid way too much when you moved into the flat tops in 2003. Prices were inflated, but I understand you wanted a house for your family. I do not think prices will ever return to 2003 values for this subdivision. You can get much more for your money right now on forclosures and the many vacant homes. And there will continue to be flight from north county, keeping values low. Ferg Flor school district is facing a multi million dollar deficite for next year, as is Hazelwood. No hope in sight.
Bongo

Saint Louis, MO

#12 Feb 17, 2013
The area is done,sacrificed to the expansion of North city migration and the trash that came with it.
While their are good minority and hard working poor people,that is not what has been placed in the areas homes in the last few years. These are animistic criminals who feel they are owed respect,a job,a home,and anything else they want at others expense.
So,no this area will be just like North city when it hits the tipping point,which is not far off.
hardhead

Saint Louis, MO

#13 Feb 18, 2013
start enforcing some of the ordinances in the city and run some of the trash back to north city where thy belong.start writing tickets and let them know we won't put up with their nonsense. make them clean up their house's ,get rid of junk cars,write them some tickets for no ins. or wrong plates.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

#14 Feb 18, 2013
hardhead wrote:
start enforcing some of the ordinances in the city and run some of the trash back to north city where thy belong.start writing tickets and let them know we won't put up with their nonsense. make them clean up their house's ,get rid of junk cars,write them some tickets for no ins. or wrong plates.
Won't work. The problem is too big. Had a FLOMO neighbor that was a refugee from Jennings. In the 60s and early 70s they had Northland and RiverRoads--great community, huge tax base.

Well, in the early 70s blacks started moving in and crime went crazy (sound familiar?), so to protect the crown jewels Jennings built a big honkin jail and hired more cops. Filled the jail, did everything you said. You can see the results.

This is like a flesh eating bacteria, it feeds on the host, invades every cell, every organ, and eventually kills the host. It will then move on (are you listening StCharlesMo???)

In FLOMO right now, most of the foreclosures and bank owned houses are being bought up by California and other out of state consolidators. They will sell when the special minority and underserved community housing programs start. It will be basically a rent to own scheme on a large scale. They will turn this into a plantation of slave quarters filled with you know what with HUD paying the bills.

Check out zillow.com and see who is buying in FLOMO HZWD, BERK, FERG, DLWD, etc.
hardhead

Saint Louis, MO

#15 Feb 18, 2013
TTU wrote:
<quoted text>
Won't work. The problem is too big. Had a FLOMO neighbor that was a refugee from Jennings. In the 60s and early 70s they had Northland and RiverRoads--great community, huge tax base.
Well, in the early 70s blacks started moving in and crime went crazy (sound familiar?), so to protect the crown jewels Jennings built a big honkin jail and hired more cops. Filled the jail, did everything you said. You can see the results.
This is like a flesh eating bacteria, it feeds on the host, invades every cell, every organ, and eventually kills the host. It will then move on (are you listening StCharlesMo???)
In FLOMO right now, most of the foreclosures and bank owned houses are being bought up by California and other out of state consolidators. They will sell when the special minority and underserved community housing programs start. It will be basically a rent to own scheme on a large scale. They will turn this into a plantation of slave quarters filled with you know what with HUD paying the bills.
Check out zillow.com and see who is buying in FLOMO HZWD, BERK, FERG, DLWD, etc.
oh my god this is true,look at what they have done to spanish lake and dellwood. still i would ride them hard and stay on their ass's about everything.
I do not know what

Florissant, MO

#16 Feb 18, 2013
Curious wrote:
We own a "flat top" home. It was purchased in 2003-- and it is currently very underwater. We cannot stay due to our family size and the school system here. I have looked into renting the home out but it needs many updates, and if the general consensus from other residents is it is only getting worse here and thus property will never reach 2003 values, we will base our decision from there.
Thank you for your responses in advance.
the average price is but my mom just sold her house which is is in Old Town and she did pretty well. The house was appraised at $137,000 and it sold for $127,200. It is a pretty small house 3 bedrooms, 1 full bath, partially finished basement with a half bath with a detached garage. It was totally paid for though and when they bought it it cost them $24,000.
She didn't sell because she didn't like the area, but because she was tired of dealing with the stuff you have to do when you own a house. Fixing the roof, tree trimming, yard work, etc.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

#17 Feb 18, 2013
I do not know what wrote:
<quoted text>
the average price is but my mom just sold her house which is is in Old Town and she did pretty well. The house was appraised at $137,000 and it sold for $127,200. It is a pretty small house 3 bedrooms, 1 full bath, partially finished basement with a half bath with a detached garage. It was totally paid for though and when they bought it it cost them $24,000.
She didn't sell because she didn't like the area, but because she was tired of dealing with the stuff you have to do when you own a house. Fixing the roof, tree trimming, yard work, etc.
Good for your mom. But look at it this way, her house sold for probably about $100/foot in move in condition. A similar house in Webster, Kirkwood, Des Peres would have sold for $200-$250/foot, backing to commercial on Manchester Rd. Had she sold it in 2003-2006 it would have probably gone for $50k more. Folks who bought during that period have experienced a DROP in equity even to a negative (under water) point, which reaps havoc on family finances as the OP has found out.

Here's another issue not in the lime light now. The purchaser of your mom's house can buy insurance for just the mortgage value of or appraised value, and not the replacement value. The replacement cost would be $150-200/foot, depending on amount of demolition, repair, quality of materials, etc. If that house burns down or is storm damaged, and the owner only has limited insurance, e.g., purchase price or less, there is a great possibility that the owners will walk away. That is what has happened in the north inner rings and North City and why there are so many burnt out hulks.

Incidentally, while your mom's house got a good price, numerous foreclosures and bank owned houses up Lafayette toward Dunn Road and adjacent saint streets have recently sold for $40k or less.
mistabone

Asheville, NC

#18 Feb 18, 2013
I think we can now add into the real estate equation that Florissant (and most of North county) is now perceived to be contaminated by nuclear waste. Its kinda old news but has really exploded as of late with the KSDK news story about cancer clusters and the coldwater facebook page.

They are currently collecting more cancer data since the story broke 2 weeks ago and when they release the new data it could get very interesting.
Limited insurance

Florissant, MO

#19 Feb 18, 2013
TTU wrote:
<quoted text>
Good for your mom. But look at it this way, her house sold for probably about $100/foot in move in condition. A similar house in Webster, Kirkwood, Des Peres would have sold for $200-$250/foot, backing to commercial on Manchester Rd. Had she sold it in 2003-2006 it would have probably gone for $50k more. Folks who bought during that period have experienced a DROP in equity even to a negative (under water) point, which reaps havoc on family finances as the OP has found out.
Here's another issue not in the lime light now. The purchaser of your mom's house can buy insurance for just the mortgage value of or appraised value, and not the replacement value. The replacement cost would be $150-200/foot, depending on amount of demolition, repair, quality of materials, etc. If that house burns down or is storm damaged, and the owner only has limited insurance, e.g., purchase price or less, there is a great possibility that the owners will walk away. That is what has happened in the north inner rings and North City and why there are so many burnt out hulks.
Incidentally, while your mom's house got a good price, numerous foreclosures and bank owned houses up Lafayette toward Dunn Road and adjacent saint streets have recently sold for $40k or less.
I was an underwriter for years and there is no such thing as limited insurance when a mortgage exists. You cannot just have the loan amount because that changes overtime and no insurer will make that kind of a deal and neither will the lender. All policies written on homes that are still owed on have automatic increases to protect the mortgager as well as the owner/buyer.
Ridiculous to think a mortgage lender would allow the buyer decide the amount of coverage. I don't know how you came about your info but it is totally inaccurate.

As far as foreclosures everyone knows that the bank sells the property to the highest bidder not for the appraised price.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

#20 Feb 18, 2013
Limited insurance wrote:
<quoted text>
I was an underwriter for years and there is no such thing as limited insurance when a mortgage exists. You cannot just have the loan amount because that changes overtime and no insurer will make that kind of a deal and neither will the lender. All policies written on homes that are still owed on have automatic increases to protect the mortgager as well as the owner/buyer.
Ridiculous to think a mortgage lender would allow the buyer decide the amount of coverage. I don't know how you came about your info but it is totally inaccurate.
As far as foreclosures everyone knows that the bank sells the property to the highest bidder not for the appraised price.
I just went through this with my insurance broker. Maybe the terminology that I used was wrong, but the insurance policy values in quotes that I saw from various insurers had a wide of numbers, couched in terms of "depreciation". Basically, as I understand it, the mortgagee demands that you have enough cash payout coverage to make them whole if you have a casualty loss and walk away--they will have a lien on the insurance proceeds. You can buy a full replacement cost policy or one that deducts from what will be paid based on depreciation. As it was explained to me, since my roof is 7 years old and has been depreciated 70 percent, I could insure it for as little as 30 percent of replacement cost up to full market value for a new roof. Then, if I need a roof this year, the insurance co would pay say $3000 of a $10,000 roof.

The point I was trying to make is based on what my agent told me which is essentially that a lot of folks in FLOMO and surrounding areas don't have FULL replacement value policies and if there is a fire or devastating storm, there will likely be a lot of walk aways, because the owners don't have the cash to get the repairs done.

If the bank has a foreclosure auction your comment is true. But not all bank owned houses are sold at auction. In the last several years there have been numerous bank owned homes that have been sold to buyers who just make an offer. They may negotiate a bit, but its not an auction. There have been many homes disposed of this way far below appraised value. Check out zillow and blockshopper.
market values

United States

#21 Feb 19, 2013
Market values are set by the sale of like kind real estate in the area over the past several years. Cost and value are not equal.
The value of a neighborhood is assesed by many variables, including good schools, good municipality bond ratings, good fire protection, good infrastructure, etc. It takes lots of ingrediets to mix a good cake.

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