tax increase, don't vote for this!

tax increase, don't vote for this!

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hardhead

Florissant, MO

#1 Jul 22, 2013
the ferg- flor school district wants a tax levy (increase). do not vote for this, the head of the school district(superintendent)cut hours for the teacher aids and office help while taking a raise in pay for himself. the superintendent makes $280,000 a year. he has said he welcomes students from riverview and normandy with open arms while our class's are full.we don't need a tax increase of any kind until they stop handing out free breakfest and bringing kids into the schools that don't belong here. i know of at least two 6th grade class's that have 37 students in each class. ferg- flor is over the limit now with some students already coming up from the city. we need to stop the kids from coming here that don't live here,and this guy is inviting more? and wants us to pay for it. what's wrong with this picture? he is poisoning our schools with this thinking.now i am going to rant alittle, these schools where once good schools until the blacks moved in and ruined them when i grew up your parents fed you breakfest not the schools.poor kids were going to school hungry because their parents were to lazy to get up and feed them,SO THEY WANT THE TAX PAYER TO FEED THEM. i say BULLSHIT. that's the last thing this school district needs is more unruly thugs coming into the schools.DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS until they learn how to spend our tax dollars wisely. let the superintendent take a pay cut, he's making plenty and don't have a clue what the people of this city wants. what a joke the ferg-flor school district has become.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

#2 Jul 22, 2013
Hardhead, I hear and understand what you’re saying. But let me presents some other facts. First and foremost the elected seven member volunteer board governs the superintendent. The board hires and fires and sets the pay scale. The free and reduced breakfast and lunch programs are paid by the Federal gov’t to the school districts for each meal served. Board can elect to have or not have this program. I too had a breakfast every morning from home. Today many parents are not like what I fortunately had. It is the goal to have class sizes (7-12) to be around 28. DESE minimal standard is 33, so 37 sounds very high and not practical to me. St. Louis County has around 26 separate school districts, all with different pay scales. You’ll find the more (challenging student) districts with a higher tax rate for several reasons.
Assessed real estate property values identify these challenging areas. Educators who truly care about educating children, ALL CHILDREN, will always welcomed with open arms students to attend their district. It does not cost the local district tax base anymore are any less to have them transfer in. I agree no one including myself, likes paying higher taxes. But people, such as yourself, need to get involved and attend local governing tax bodies board meetings. You have a voice louder if you attend, listen and understand how/why things work. When a voter goes to the polls their vote only counts for one. Get active and involved in order to make a difference.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#3 Jul 22, 2013
how much does the district get for each student who transfers in? i heard $24,000 ahead, so i do think it's about money. i rerally don't care about the funds as much as i care about these transfers coming in to poison our schools with their antics, and believe me there will be some. let them fix the schools they destroyed and stay where their at. i remember the schools here before and they were good schools, but if you go up there now it's like a zoo, loud and unruly. if you say something to the superintendent he wants to tell you they have no problems, if he calls you back, which he never does. talk in private with the white teachers behind closed doors and i think you will get a much different picture. years ago people moved out to the county to get away from this sort of thing and then moved on to st.charles because of it. why do they keep forcing this down our throats when no one wants it. the black race is like a cancer across america, they made their schools what they are and they should keep them there.ferg-flor schools are DONE, no hope for them. i would be up in arms if i lived in st.charles though. i seen how the blacks acted on the bus with the driver doing nothing because he was black also, seen it with my own eyes. i can't and will not give another dime to support this mess of a school district we have. my kids couldn't wait to get out of school because of the blacks stealing and screwing with the white, but all we ever heard was WE DON'T HAVE ANY RACIAL PROBLEMS HERE! the leadership of the district is in denial. there should be metal detectors at the schools here now. by bringing more students in(no matter who pays for them) you are overfilling our school system and our kids will get a lesser education.
Convoluted Thinking

Florissant, MO

#4 Jul 22, 2013
hardhead wrote:
the ferg- flor school district wants a tax levy (increase). do not vote for this, the head of the school district(superintendent)cut hours for the teacher aids and office help while taking a raise in pay for himself. the superintendent makes $280,000 a year. he has said he welcomes students from riverview and normandy with open arms while our class's are full.we don't need a tax increase of any kind until they stop handing out free breakfest and bringing kids into the schools that don't belong here. i know of at least two 6th grade class's that have 37 students in each class. ferg- flor is over the limit now with some students already coming up from the city. we need to stop the kids from coming here that don't live here,and this guy is inviting more? and wants us to pay for it. what's wrong with this picture? he is poisoning our schools with this thinking.now i am going to rant alittle, these schools where once good schools until the blacks moved in and ruined them when i grew up your parents fed you breakfest not the schools.poor kids were going to school hungry because their parents were to lazy to get up and feed them,SO THEY WANT THE TAX PAYER TO FEED THEM. i say BULLSHIT. that's the last thing this school district needs is more unruly thugs coming into the schools.DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS until they learn how to spend our tax dollars wisely. let the superintendent take a pay cut, he's making plenty and don't have a clue what the people of this city wants. what a joke the ferg-flor school district has become.
Vote how you please, that is the whole point of living in a democracy. But, don't try to use your hatred of blacks to convince others to do the same. People should research the issue(s) as much as possible and then make their decision based on facts not words by persons with hate filled agendas.

So, you think "poor" kids don't get fed breakfast because their parent(s) are too lazy to get up. Really? Did it ever occur to you that they don't eat because they live at the poverty level? Did it ever occur to you that there are white kids who go hungry?
I don't want any child to go hungry. Why should kids be punished when they had no choice in who their parents would be, what race they would be born into and so forth?

You are so small minded and big headed that you don't care about the truth. Your claim that you only post the truth is ludicrous. I haven't decided how I'll vote. But, I just might vote for the tax increase knowing it will cancel your hate vote.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#5 Jul 23, 2013
Convoluted Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>
Vote how you please, that is the whole point of living in a democracy. But, don't try to use your hatred of blacks to convince others to do the same. People should research the issue(s) as much as possible and then make their decision based on facts not words by persons with hate filled agendas.
So, you think "poor" kids don't get fed breakfast because their parent(s) are too lazy to get up. Really? Did it ever occur to you that they don't eat because they live at the poverty level? Did it ever occur to you that there are white kids who go hungry?
I don't want any child to go hungry. Why should kids be punished when they had no choice in who their parents would be, what race they would be born into and so forth?
You are so small minded and big headed that you don't care about the truth. Your claim that you only post the truth is ludicrous. I haven't decided how I'll vote. But, I just might vote for the tax increase knowing it will cancel your hate vote.
my vote is not a hate vote, i just think these parents should take some responabilty and make sure their kids get enough sleep and are fed before going to school. this has been a big problem at the schools that's why the free breakfest program was started in the first place.i don't care what anybody thinks, but i will tell these schools were much better schools before the blacks moved in, i know because i was here and my children went to these schools.we were involved in the school system for 26 years and i've seen it change for the worse because of the blacks. no rules at home and allowed to run wild is the problems with the blacks in this city. they should try teaching the little thugs some manners and how to respect other peoples property.
TTU

United States

#6 Jul 23, 2013
Convoluted Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>

So, you think "poor" kids don't get fed breakfast because their parent(s) are too lazy to get up. Really? Did it ever occur to you that they don't eat because they live at the poverty level?
Financial poverty is not necessarily the problem. From my observations in the FLOMO area its more a problem of neglect and ignorance.

When my kids went to HSD there were other kids who would duck into the coat room and rifle lunch bags looking for food. That's not a good situation. I don't know whether they were at the poverty level or not, but to attend the school they had to live in a relatively nice apartment or a home worth at least $100,000 at the time. So someone had some money. And we would occasionally see the kids at the grocery store with adults buying food.

What appeared to me to be the main problem is that the "village" that is supposed to be raising these kids is actually eating the kid's food. What I mean by that is that there are always extra people "staying" at the kid's residences---mamma's boyfriends, aunts, etc., and they eat up the food, leaving the kids hungry.

If we as a society truly want to help these kids, and had the money, removing them from that "home" environment and culture would probably be a good investment and a humane gesture.

At the least, when kids show signs of being underfed, a gov't agency should investigate the home situation, and see what can be done to rectify the problem and get the kids fed. Enforcing occupancy codes would probably be a good start.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

#7 Jul 23, 2013
Let’s take this step by step.(Receiving) school districts of transfer students may only charge the sending school district the actual per pupil cost. In the case of Hazelwood, that cost will be around $10,800. For media discussion average tuition payments are being quoted as $12,000 per student. Estimated transportation cost per student is $3000 to be paid by the sending school district. So the sending school districts will each be losing money. The receiving school districts will stay cost neutral. In Hazelwood we take discipline very serious. Transfer students and our local students will be treated equally and discipline equally. I will agree that our superintendent does not respond to every call, our board does not want him doing so, that is why we have qualified assistance. The Hazelwood district has over 2000 employees most of which are teachers. Undoubtedly there will be employees who are disgruntled, no different than any other workplace. I have come to accept the fact people will believe (blame) whomever or whatever they choose. They mainly move because they are unhappy and/or desire a change from previous experience. People move away for a variety of reasons. I agree, here where we live most frequently people will blame the black people. But if you were to take a urban white kid and moved him to the boot heel of Missouri, I can assure you that child would have difficulty adapting and being accepted amongst the predominant other white students. Race plays a factor, so does social economic status, local heritage and conditions. St. Louis is one of the only areas found that ask the question “where did you go to high school”. Doesn’t anyone seem to realize, possibly this is a wrong question developed by a limited mindset? Historically St. Louis has been so parochial stemming from our heritage. More people move out of Missouri then what transfers in. Those who move away from Missouri are exposed to a different way of life and are transformed for the better. Those of us who stay have two choices—keep with our old outdated mindset of “show me” first, OR, personal growth through learning and teaching, let “me show” you. Many choose the simplest thing by working at not trying to make a positive difference.
TTU

United States

#8 Jul 23, 2013
Mark,

I mostly defer to your expertise.

But re the cost to the district of transient and transfer students, I'll add a few comments from an acquaintance who is a superintendent of a district that has a fair amount of transient students. The district is across the river and covers an area with a lot of fruit orchards. The children of fruit pickers show up and are enrolled through early fall then move with their families in late fall. Some may reappear in the winter during pruning season. The number varies from year to year.

The problem the district faces is that when the kids show up, the district has to take them. To maintain numbers and ratios, teachers must be hired. ESL tutors must be hired also. Supplies must be provided and rooms opened. To get adequate teachers and ESL personnel, they are given at least semester long contracts. Problem is, the state does not pay on a semester or year basis. The state pays based on daily attendance. So the district in past years has had to eat a lot of expenses. In one year, a contract for smart board updates had to be cancelled. Computer replacements etc. were put off. And regular subs are displaced by the contract teachers and lose income.

So there can be problems.

In this transfer scenario, if the receiving district hires teachers on a year contract, and kids transfer back or go on to another district according to their whims or whatever--who pays for the teachers' contracts for the remainder of the term? And what happens to the textbooks, smart boards, and other costs, are they paid up front by the sending district? If the sending district has already signed teacher contracts, and they end up with a teacher surplus--what do they do? And what happens if the sending district regains accreditation? Do the kids stay or go back?

Oh well, at least Francis Howell and Mehlville should have some good basketball next year.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

#9 Jul 23, 2013
TTU, I fully agree with the scenario you presented. Students in transit have been and still are a problem with north county schools. Although we may not have migrant workers children we do have a large population of students in apartments. Spring rental season opens up with apartment incentives and renters move into a unit until Christmas break then move out and relocate somewhere else. This does happen to us frequently at certain buildings. This is something we closely watch and anticipate. I do not mean to criticize the administrator you are acquainted with, but in today’s world they have at their fingertips data to help them make necessary decisions. I am sure this known problem they have is dealt with in the most prudent manner.

This transfer situation is a NEW problem and everyone is trying to feel their way through the unknown. Fortunately all administrators from all districts are meeting and working together to develop solutions collectively. This situation is touching all districts in the St. Louis region. And for the first time everyone is focused together on this problem. There are many unanswered questions that exist I assure you, but I have confidence in the St. Louis region school district administrators.

I’m not so sure about the quality of the basketball team for those districts next year. A new sporting event for entertainment may be the school board meetings. Thank you for having a civil conversation.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#10 Jul 23, 2013
you know mark b i agree with alot of things you say as you seem like a very smart person, but the fact is if we bring transfer school kids to our schools we will have made a bad problem worse,OVERCROWDING is the real problem and kids from a different culture. kids are taught at an early age to back their schools,meaning support your school in sports. these kids are compete between themselves and the schools, that's why fights break out at the sporting events. the school district does not spend our tax dollars wisely now, why give them more. i have discussed this transfer of students with friends, family members, neighbors and ex co-workers that live from warrenton, st.peters, st.charles, ferguson,dellwood and florissant and can't find anyone who supports either of these things. that's why i don't understand why this keeps getting forced on us time and again. nobody want the busing of the 70's and 80's but was forced on us anyway. i tried having a voice with the ferg-flor school board and gave up because your words fell on deaf ears. they don't want to listen and won't even call you back most of the time. the school system is a joke here anymore. i am sure not going to give the big headed people another dime of my tax money to squander away. VOTE NO ON PROP A !
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#11 Jul 23, 2013
why don't we put the transfer of students( if you can call them that) into our schools up to a public vote of the district being invaded? we'll see how good it goes then. i think they'll be booking a loser.
Rick D

Saint Louis, MO

#12 Jul 23, 2013
Let's take the discussion back to the vote on the tax increase.

The Board of Directors of the Greater North County Chamber of Commerce endorsed the tax increase. The reason for this is that stronger schools mean a stronger community and a stronger business environment.

Part of the reason that you see a school district fail is that its tax base erodes. That erosion causes people to leave for other areas and the downward spiral intensifies.

If you want to keep a stronger community, strong public schools are essential.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#13 Jul 23, 2013
Rick D wrote:
Let's take the discussion back to the vote on the tax increase.
The Board of Directors of the Greater North County Chamber of Commerce endorsed the tax increase. The reason for this is that stronger schools mean a stronger community and a stronger business environment.
Part of the reason that you see a school district fail is that its tax base erodes. That erosion causes people to leave for other areas and the downward spiral intensifies.
If you want to keep a stronger community, strong public schools are essential.
if you want a stronger community and business environment you have to keep the blacks away and out of your school district, this is why north county is on the downhill now. people moved out to get their children away from the blacks and then they could get a good education and be safe while doing it. the board of directors of the greater north county chamber of commerce have watched north county go down the tubes, they have done nothing to improve the cities in north county. the tax base erodes because the blacks move in and decent people move out, plain and simple. then you have nothing left. how can anyone not see this, look at what has happened in spanish lake and the dellwood area. raising our tax's isn't going to do anything but give them money to squander. the schools are overcrowded now we do not more students or a tax increase. quit bringing kids into the area that don't live here and are not wanted. pit it out there for a public vote and see what happens.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

#14 Jul 23, 2013
Thanks Rick for no sugar coating and straight to the point.
Using the data from DESE, 2013,(Students per classroom Teacher)–Riverview Gardens 21, Normandy 20, Hazelwood & Fer/Flor 17, pretty much tells the tale Rick is speaking about. By the way the lowest ratio districts are Brentwood and Clayton with 11, Lindbergh 19, Mehlville 18, Parkway 15, Bayless 19, Jennings 18, Ladue 14, Ritenour 19, University City 16, just to name a few. Now having more kids per classroom is not a good thing. More students per classroom indicates – lack of funding for additional needed teachers and or physical space. In St. Louis County if a district does not generate 65% of its yearly budget from local tax dollars collected (personal property and real estate), that district has little chance of improving let alone surviving. Both Riverview and Normandy have little to no commercial business tax base and the residential tax base is below poverty levels. Without funding (from somewhere) the end result governed by the state of Missouri, will be dissolving those districts. If you recall Wellston was dissolved and incorporated with Normandy.
In my opinion a community does not erode solely on the fact blacks move in. If that was the case, would there not be some responsibility directed to the whites who moved out?
If the surrounding districts continue to fail and not improve (Riverview, Normandy, Jennings, Ritenour)“look at a school district boundary map”, those districts could potentially be dissolved and split between
Hazelwood and Ferg/Flor school districts. Right now the 22 school districts in St. Louis County and the bordering county school districts DO NOT have a choice in accepting these students. This is a court order. As far as SPACE in the Hazelwood high schools, in 2007-08 combined three high schools we had 6761 students, every year it has slightly decline to 2012-13 school year of 5633 students. So five years ago we were housing and teaching 1128 additional kids. Elementary and middle school student population has also declined during that same period.
Ferg/Flor. has worked hard and responsible in providing for their student’s education and staff growth. I agree, no one likes paying any additional taxes but to have A rated services IT cost money and I do not want to see the district fail. I support the tax increase.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#15 Jul 24, 2013
i have to disgree, both riverveiw and normandy were once thriveing cities. they have no tax base because the blacks moved in and took them down the drain. as long as you see the blacks moving farther and farther out you will see the cities and schools start failing. it's just a fact.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

#17 Jul 24, 2013
Reverend Vegas wrote:
When I was in grade school in the 80's they started bringing in kids from North City to Mason Ridge Elementary. I wouldn't do that to my kid...because I know what it's like to have to fight every day and you start to HATE going to school because of it. It ruins the education of the kids who's parents actually paid good money to live in a community with a tax base that can afford good schools. No one deserves anything in life. We have to work for it. Why shouldn't others? People work hard to give their kids opportunity in life. But why bother anymore? You can just put it off on someone else? Right? But for how long? When will your tax base just say "enough is enough" and take their dollars elsewhere. You're lifting up a group of people with financial problems at the expense of others who are working damn hard for it. And with the free breakfast and lunch thing. Aren't these parents receiving financial support from the government based on the amount of kids they have? Why is that money not translating into food in their stomachs? Why do we need to take the responsibility and these parents can just skirt it with no repercussions? Isn't starving your kid against the law? Especially when you could feed your kid but you spent it otherwise?
Problem is the gov't incentivised having babies--on the female side of the ledger. Have a baby, get a check--now an EBT card, have more get more cash on your card. Have 3, and get a new garden apartment with dishwasher and pool. I see it here in the city every day. St Louis Housing Authority properties are actually really nice now. And there is a nice new community health center to go with it. St Louis Pub Schools are also very nice facilities. No reason not to have more kids. Fee day care vouchers too.

On the male side. Not so nice. No cash for donating sperm. No apartment, no food. If the female anoints you the baby daddy, gov't comes after you for support. If you don't pay it, gov't will put you in jail. If you have a bank account or job, gov't will garnish. Now the gov't is collecting DNA during custodial arrests and at some point will be matching baby daddies up with the products of their sperm and sending them bills for child support which will lead to more jail time. So the drift around, staying here and staying there--donating sperm all the time. On the good side (for them) the big O wants to give them free Medicaid.

And now they have expanded into FERGMO and FLOMO big time, crashed the local housing market, and are demanding more of other folks' tax cash to pay for their "education".

Hmmm, not so sure you all want to go along with this.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#18 Jul 24, 2013
the rev and ttu have hit the nail right on the head! i must applaud you both for seeing it how it really is. i must say with todays black fathers, they must not look for them to hard for them. you do see them moving around quite a bit.i know i've seen some houses where i don't know who the hell lives there. the blacks want everything for free, including their education on the back of my hard earned tax dollars. they have ruined the cities and schools where there was once great places to live and go to school at, and now that they have it detroyed they want to continue their detruction into more neighborhoods. within 10 years florissant will be just like walnut park, they have already done this to spanish lake and dellhood and ferglock. it's been like a cancer marching up west florissant, hallsferry and hanley, spreading their disease as they go. how can people be so blind as to not realize what's happening and now you want me to give them more money for their cause, i don't think so. they made their bed,now let them lie in it. let them clean up the cities they have ruined and get some business back there if they want a better school system, but don't come out here and screw up what we have. there is plenty on money in our school district if we would get rid of the kids that don't belong here and start spending wisely. i can't and won't support this.
youfool

Saint Louis, MO

#19 Jul 25, 2013
hardhead wrote:
the rev and ttu have hit the nail right on the head! i must applaud you both for seeing it how it really is. i must say with todays black fathers, they must not look for them to hard for them. you do see them moving around quite a bit.i know i've seen some houses where i don't know who the hell lives there. the blacks want everything for free, including their education on the back of my hard earned tax dollars. they have ruined the cities and schools where there was once great places to live and go to school at, and now that they have it detroyed they want to continue their detruction into more neighborhoods. within 10 years florissant will be just like walnut park, they have already done this to spanish lake and dellhood and ferglock. it's been like a cancer marching up west florissant, hallsferry and hanley, spreading their disease as they go. how can people be so blind as to not realize what's happening and now you want me to give them more money for their cause, i don't think so. they made their bed,now let them lie in it. let them clean up the cities they have ruined and get some business back there if they want a better school system, but don't come out here and screw up what we have. there is plenty on money in our school district if we would get rid of the kids that don't belong here and start spending wisely. i can't and won't support this.
HAHAHAHA!! Learn to type and spell, then maybe some people might take your crap remotely seriously.
Not Really

Florissant, MO

#21 Jul 25, 2013
youfool wrote:
<quoted text>
HAHAHAHA!! Learn to type and spell, then maybe some people might take your crap remotely seriously.
Couldn't care less about his atrocities at typing or spelling. They're far overshadowed by his blatant and despicable exhibits of overt racism.
hardhead

Florissant, MO

#22 Jul 26, 2013
Not Really wrote:
<quoted text>Couldn't care less about his atrocities at typing or spelling. They're far overshadowed by his blatant and despicable exhibits of overt racism.
i am not really a racist as i have some black neighbors i talk to all the time, but they act like human beings. i just see things as they really are. hell, my black neighbors will tell you the blacks act retarded.

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