Police officers fall down elevator shaft

Police officers fall down elevator shaft

There are 55 comments on the The Morning Call story from Oct 17, 2008, titled Police officers fall down elevator shaft. In it, The Morning Call reports that:

A Bucks County police chief and a police officer fell about 40-feet down an elevator shaft at a winery while making a routine check at the property last night, according to Bucks County Communications Center.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

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“AOL? Seriously?”

Since: Jul 07

Pawleys Island, SC

#43 Oct 17, 2008
It's very apparent that those posting here have never been tasked with clearing at building, particularly at night.
Get Smart

Allentown, PA

#44 Oct 17, 2008
One would think the owner would be responsible enough to have his own security guard/s there during non-operational hours. Best wishes to the police officers.
Ole Raider

Columbia, SC

#45 Oct 17, 2008
YOu or some of you fools should be ashamed of yourselves. The one post stating they were on private property! What the hell did you expect them to do. Not check it out? I could see it now, call the owner and telling him, your door was open, but we didn't check it out because it is private property. To the others, have you ever walked in a completely dark area with a flashlight? YOu don't observe everything. Maybe they did make a mistake somewhere along the line, but try walking in their shoes.
eatdoughnuts2

Schnecksville, PA

#46 Oct 17, 2008
no flashlights? because obviously the lights werent on.
maybe they were playing hide and go seek.
comment

Korea

#47 Oct 18, 2008
1. Sounds straight out of a Three Stooges scene.

2. Wish them well.

3. Is this normal protocol to patrol this private property on-site? It is one thing to respond and this happen, but it is another to proceed to go onto private property (even as police) without an initiated call or permission of the owner.

4. It will be interesting to see how the winery responds to this. They may choose to fight it, because they are obviously going to be sued, but if I were their attorney, I would argue that police in thier actions created thier own hazard by not first calling owner, checking if workers on site, waiting for owner's agent to show up, utilizing proper lighting, and safety procedures.

It sounds a bit fishy of a story to me how two people just happen to be at a winery at night and both fall into an operational elevator shaft.

It obvioulsy will be invesitgated properly now because federal office of OSHA will step in.

Stay posted, I say winery fights this and questions what the heck were these two really doing there.
Matty

United States

#48 Oct 18, 2008
Comment,

Normally I agree with a lot of what you have to say, however this is a matter where you are wrong.

You're always stating the police should be compensated more but held to higher standards and earn their money. These officers came across a suspicious situation that warranted further investigation. Are you familiar with this business? I am. It's unusual for the gates to be open that time of evening, and even more suspicious that a door would be left open. Would you have wanted them to just drive on by? Sometimes calling the owner (if you or county Radio happen to have that information readily available) isn't the most prudent course of action. The time delays could mean the difference between catching someone in the act or simply taking a report of a crime after the fact. Would you rather the police be aggressive and catch the criminals or leave it up to an investigtion that may or may not pan out?

As for why they fell down the shaft...are you familiar with this building's particular layout? Again, I am. Given the fact that this business is in a very rural area, there's no ambeint light. Any illumination would be solely from a flashlight. This elevator isn't exactly out of the way. Have you ever searched a completely blacked out building in your time with Force Recon? How much time did you spend looking at the floor two feet in front of you? Or were you more concerned with what would be out in front of you? I know I would be. Any reasonable person would be too. It's reasonable to expect a trip hazard, but not that there's going to be a 40 foot hole in the floor.

I know you question why these two may have been there in the first place, but I'm sure you don't know either one of these two. I know one of these officers personally, and know for a fact that he is as by the book as they come. There's NO WAY he's there for any reason other than investigating a potential burglary.

And yes, since it's going to be a federal investigtion, that is best. Taking Tinicum PD out of the equation leaves little room for it to be skewed one way of the other. If the findings are that there were severe violations on the part of the winery, these two would have every right to seek a civil remedy.
philly

Sweden

#49 Oct 18, 2008
Matty wrote:
Comment,
Normally I agree with a lot of what you have to say, however this is a matter where you are wrong.
You're always stating the police should be compensated more but held to higher standards and earn their money. These officers came across a suspicious situation that warranted further investigation. Are you familiar with this business? I am. It's unusual for the gates to be open that time of evening, and even more suspicious that a door would be left open. Would you have wanted them to just drive on by? Sometimes calling the owner (if you or county Radio happen to have that information readily available) isn't the most prudent course of action. The time delays could mean the difference between catching someone in the act or simply taking a report of a crime after the fact. Would you rather the police be aggressive and catch the criminals or leave it up to an investigtion that may or may not pan out?
As for why they fell down the shaft...are you familiar with this building's particular layout? Again, I am. Given the fact that this business is in a very rural area, there's no ambeint light. Any illumination would be solely from a flashlight. This elevator isn't exactly out of the way. Have you ever searched a completely blacked out building in your time with Force Recon? How much time did you spend looking at the floor two feet in front of you? Or were you more concerned with what would be out in front of you? I know I would be. Any reasonable person would be too. It's reasonable to expect a trip hazard, but not that there's going to be a 40 foot hole in the floor.
I know you question why these two may have been there in the first place, but I'm sure you don't know either one of these two. I know one of these officers personally, and know for a fact that he is as by the book as they come. There's NO WAY he's there for any reason other than investigating a potential burglary.
And yes, since it's going to be a federal investigtion, that is best. Taking Tinicum PD out of the equation leaves little room for it to be skewed one way of the other. If the findings are that there were severe violations on the part of the winery, these two would have every right to seek a civil remedy.
Who are you Matty since you know the business sooo well ????
Matty

Bethlehem, PA

#50 Oct 18, 2008
I've never been employed there, nor do I have any affiliation with the business, but I've been there more than once.
yeah

AOL

#51 Oct 18, 2008
comment wrote:
1. Sounds straight out of a Three Stooges scene.
2. Wish them well.
3. Is this normal protocol to patrol this private property on-site? It is one thing to respond and this happen, but it is another to proceed to go onto private property (even as police) without an initiated call or permission of the owner.
4. It will be interesting to see how the winery responds to this. They may choose to fight it, because they are obviously going to be sued, but if I were their attorney, I would argue that police in thier actions created thier own hazard by not first calling owner, checking if workers on site, waiting for owner's agent to show up, utilizing proper lighting, and safety procedures.
It sounds a bit fishy of a story to me how two people just happen to be at a winery at night and both fall into an operational elevator shaft.
It obvioulsy will be invesitgated properly now because federal office of OSHA will step in.
Stay posted, I say winery fights this and questions what the heck were these two really doing there.
If there were a call regarding an issue on your property; say smoke showing, or an intruder alarm, or someone seen lurking; the police would respond and investigate. Perhas you would like them to NOT investigate such issues at your house?
comment

Korea

#52 Oct 19, 2008
yeah wrote:
<quoted text>
If there were a call regarding an issue on your property; say smoke showing, or an intruder alarm, or someone seen lurking; the police would respond and investigate. Perhas you would like them to NOT investigate such issues at your house?
1. This is what is at question. Were they responding to a call?

If they were at any of my properties, on an uninitiated call of some sort of disturbance or immediate hazard that requires them to go onto my properties, yes, I would rather they not self initiate a search and contact me.

This will be interesting because as I said, the wineries lawyers are going to question why were these two on the property. Was their a call of some sort of PA Criminal Code violation? If not, then there is no reason for them to step onto the property.

Regardless, the did not engage in acts of prudent safety of response. As for my time and safety in Force, flawless and we wear night vision goggles and have illumination on our weaponry for these types of situations.

I agree. It will be thoroughly investigated and I do not question these officer good intentions, just the manner of which they executed those good intentions.
Matty

United States

#53 Oct 19, 2008
They weren't responding to a call. They were doing what good officers do...patrolling and being observant.

If they were on your property and couldn't reach you, would you prefer they just drive on by? You question if there was a PA criminal code violation. There could have been...that's what they were investigating. The totality of circumstances would lead a reasonable officer to believe a burglary may have happened. They had every reason to be on that property as they were acting in good faith under the color of authority.

Once again, you have no idea how the property is set up, so questioning their prudent safety response is moot. No reasonable person would expect there to be an open elevator shaft where this shaft is located. I also know that Tinicum doesn't have light systems on any of their weapons, nor do they have NVGs. You'd need to have money for that.

It's easy for others to questions their execution, especially from the comfort of an office or desk having not been put in the situation. I always find it entertaining when people who have never done the job expect the police to be perfect 100% of the time.

Bird

George Town, Cayman Islands

#54 Oct 19, 2008
Its a shame the tone people take on these comment forums. I hope the officers get well soon. I got on here to read the comments because the chief is a friend of my mother, who is worried sick about him. I was hoping to find some news on the condition of the officers and I seem to have found some idiots instead.

They risk their lives to protect the same people who insult them here.

Any reasonable person would have an elevator lift protected by a lift gate. No one should ever be able to walk into an open elevator shaft. EVER! If the design of this building is such that you can walk into an open elevator pit then the OWNER is an idiot, is reckless and responsible. Not the police who are trying to protect them.

For those of you morons who carry flashlights pointed at your feet, watch your head.
Matty

United States

#56 Oct 19, 2008
Bird wrote:
Any reasonable person would have an elevator lift protected by a lift gate. No one should ever be able to walk into an open elevator shaft. EVER!
I'm sure you can see by now, the people who post on these forums are, by and large, unreasonable.
comment

Korea

#57 Oct 19, 2008
Matty wrote:
They weren't responding to a call. They were doing what good officers do...patrolling and being observant.
If they were on your property and couldn't reach you, would you prefer they just drive on by? You question if there was a PA criminal code violation. There could have been...that's what they were investigating. The totality of circumstances would lead a reasonable officer to believe a burglary may have happened. They had every reason to be on that property as they were acting in good faith under the color of authority.
Once again, you have no idea how the property is set up, so questioning their prudent safety response is moot. No reasonable person would expect there to be an open elevator shaft where this shaft is located. I also know that Tinicum doesn't have light systems on any of their weapons, nor do they have NVGs. You'd need to have money for that.
It's easy for others to questions their execution, especially from the comfort of an office or desk having not been put in the situation. I always find it entertaining when people who have never done the job expect the police to be perfect 100% of the time.
1. I have been to the winery many times.
2. I have cleared rooms both in training and live combat, both day simulations, night simulations, smoke filled rooms, as well as actual day and night direct actions.

Continue to be entertained, but I am the one now sitting at my desk and not at a hosptial. The mere fact that they are both injured is enough evidence as the incapacity to execute proper procedures. They will be eaten alive by attorneys for the insurance companies.

Again, they could have secured the property externally. Unless they have preauthorization to go onto property and into property, they are in all liklihood performing duties of a security company and not what is required of them as law enforcement officers. They failed to properly maintain the safety of each officer. They were not responsing to a call, hence it is not a emergency/criminal response. They should have called owner, security company, or whoever else is responsible for property.

They could have secured gate with one officer and sent the other in a safe manner to walk and patrol the building, until such time the owner or owners agent appeared to safely take them into the building.

I would love to have police provide walking security inside my property lines and inside my building, but that is outside the bounds of their responsibilities. I pay either employees to be in the building or I pay a security company.

I look forward to seeing how Tinicum and the Winery each react to this outcome which is more to do with the inadequate actions of these police officers.
Start new

United States

#58 Feb 6, 2015
I heard of the same story in 1999 in Hollywood,ca,@the corner of Selma and cahuenga at a building called the tav.everyone slept in the boarded up.you looked out a window to a judge Judy billboard.then you finished a case of king cobra 40's and all of us train hoppers passed out.i seen my friend turn into a demon and god took care of it. I tried waking everyone up.so I prAyed.last time i drank at the spotlight and got cases from pla-boy liquors,I seem the sunset ave mall was steamrolled.a church finally shut down studio city where Carson's studio was.the stage and whatever was down there that one guy wouldn't say.i probably won't go back.

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