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oh dear

San Diego, CA

#63 Apr 22, 2011
I really dislike the way the show made it seem like children are forever innocent and that it's perfectly fine for the child to keep encouraging the person, know their age, invite them over and at the end of it all it's still solely the person's fault. I mean granted, yes, they are an adult but if you're idiotic, stupid, or too blind to realize your child is asking for it online then your problem has started long before anyone else got involved. Also, does no one realize most chat rooms require an age requirement. I mean, they're probably not gonna care, but when that kid finds themselves in a bad situation, I hope the parents realize their oh so innocent little angel didn't end up in that chat room on accident.

Oh, and I don't agree with what the pervs were doing on the show but come on, no minors were involved. Sounds like thought police to me.
anonymous

United States

#64 May 29, 2011
In some cases it IS entrapment. If the suspect at all in the chat says that they are unsure about following through and the person posing as the minor is still soliciting after what the suspect saying he wasn't sure, it is entrapment. Also, there has to be law enforcement involved in the sting for it to be entrapment. The show thought they were free and clear of entrapment by not having law enforcement involved during the solicitation, but according to law, if law enforcement is involved in ANY portion of the sting, it is considered entrapment. Most of the pedophiles that get caught will plea no contest or plea a lesser sentence because they know what they are doing is wrong and it is hard to find someone who will actually spend the time to defend them properly.

“Just my opinion”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#65 Jun 12, 2011
anonymous wrote:
I'm not sure it amounts to entrapment but I've got grave concerns about whether these perverts--and, yes, they are perverts--have even committed a crime. They talk/chat on the internet with undercover police officers--NOT minors. They proposition these undercover police officers--NOT minors. They talk filth to these undercover police officers--NOT minors.
And, when they go to the house to have sex with a minor--THERE IS NO MINOR PRESENT. It is police, Dateline and someone over the age of consent who LOOKS like a minor.
Dateline says the perverts are charged with the crime of "intent to have sex with a minor" or something similar. But, the pervert never has even spoken to a minor. Never met a minor.
And, more importantly, we do not punish people for having horrible thoughts in the United States. Which means, I can think all I want that I want to kill my neighbor but the thinking ALONE is not a crime. I can think all I want that I'd like to rob the bank down the street but just thinking about it is not enough. I can think that I'd like to take a steak from the local grocery store without paying for it and even go into the store to steal the steak--but until I carry it out of the store, it is not a crime. In other words, I've got to take a "substantial step" towards the completion of my crime to be guilty of the attempt to commit it. What does the pervert on Dateline do? He talks/chats with an ADULT and agrees to meet an ADULT and goes to a house and then meets an ADULT. He thinks about having sex with minors but, until now and until this, the US never has criminally punished those who merely think about committing crimes--no matter how horrendous the crime.
Well said. No question these people are guilty of stupidity but stupidity is not a crime. It is frightening to think that we are arresting folks by what assume is in their mind. I also throw in the fact that when they are talking to the cops, their privacy is invaded. Most people think emotionally but I think logically. I do NOT think these guys are good folks and they are probably up to no good. People are not convicted on PROBABLY. Remember we are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. There is reasonable doubt

“Just my opinion”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#66 Jun 12, 2011
Anon1337 wrote:
No crime committed. It should not stick. I agree with the previous posters and the constitution. I can sympathize with the individuals who want these people strung up and charged to the maximum. But
1) Your feeling are not a tool of cognition. Sorry. We live in a rational society of law, not a whimsical society based on your, or anyone's moral indignation.
2) More important than the outcome of this particular scenario is the fundamental principle on which the whole dilemma hinges. If you can prosecute and punish these pervs on the basis of their intention w/o an actually criminal ACT taking place (there are no minors anywhere to be found)then transitively you can run with the bastardized principle and apply it widely to other contexts where it becomes much more clear that thought crimes and preemptive prosecution is immorally and illegally taking place.
It takes a sharper than average mind to delve that deeply through the knee-jerk emotional content and see the essential underlying principles at work, and most of you couldn't think your way out of a wet paper bag.
3) I agree with the sentiment "protect the children". But protect them from more than the pervs. Protect the free-society and constitutional principles on which it was founded. What use is it to zealously protect them from perverts at the expense of wrecking the society in which they must live. I don't want my kids growing up in a stifled society that can prosecute your thoughts, and intentions. There are wider implications...
You guys also support the Patriot Act? it will keep us "safe", but at what costs? Similarities and parallels exist here. Think about it.
1/\/\ 50 ()|33|p 1337,`|0() c|()`|5 5()(|<
Texas apparently agrees with you too. Texas had the guts to eventually say this whole process is unconstitutional, after that guy killed himself. You are so right. Most people let their emotions take over. I have even seen some people on blogs say that adults should not even be allowed to ROLE PLAY age . lol--- It is a very volatile issue for sure but let logic prevail . Again I reiterate that these men are very stupid that follow through.

“Just my opinion”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#67 Jun 12, 2011
usnavy sailor wrote:
last time i checked we stated this country to stop wrongful prosecution. I don't agree with what these men are tying to do but the only "proof" they are guilty is chat logs with someone claiming to be a certain age. it is against the law to entrap or otherwise wrongfully prosecute them. I dont defend these weirdos but I do defend the law and every Americans rights. <quoted text>
You are a military man and you say that? Remember if their rights are taken away , yours just might be next. I do not like these men either, but I think logically. They cybered and came to meet adults. People lie about age all the time. Hansen contradicted himself. He got on some of these men for lying about their age, but the girls lied too... Hmmm. I see a double standard. Again can you say ROLEPLAY. Whether you like it or not, that brings reasonable doubt into play.
Mark

Spring Hill, FL

#68 Jul 2, 2011
STOP DEFENDING YOURSELVES because the brainless can't see beyond their anger. There are many good points in here about this NOT being a crime. FOCUS ON THAT not so much the perverts in question. We are the United States and to have these type of stings are bad for ALL of us in the end because now if you allow these types of things to happen one day it will be you because you "thought" you's kill your husband/wife for forgetting to get the pizza on the way home. YES doesn't that sound stupid? Well imagine that! I say it is entrapment and NO CRIME has been committed & these people are being exploited. With what little freedoms I have left I would behead these guys for what they did however my reality is that this is NOT a crime. THEY NEVER SPOKE, SENT IMAGES OR MET A MINOR but yet was charged, get past your anger and see the reality!

“Just my opinion”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#69 Jul 3, 2011
Mark wrote:
STOP DEFENDING YOURSELVES because the brainless can't see beyond their anger. There are many good points in here about this NOT being a crime. FOCUS ON THAT not so much the perverts in question. We are the United States and to have these type of stings are bad for ALL of us in the end because now if you allow these types of things to happen one day it will be you because you "thought" you's kill your husband/wife for forgetting to get the pizza on the way home. YES doesn't that sound stupid? Well imagine that! I say it is entrapment and NO CRIME has been committed & these people are being exploited. With what little freedoms I have left I would behead these guys for what they did however my reality is that this is NOT a crime. THEY NEVER SPOKE, SENT IMAGES OR MET A MINOR but yet was charged, get past your anger and see the reality!
Well said Mark. As I have said that Hansen is so sanctomonious about these men when they have lied about their age and has the audacity to say stuff like - YOU KNEW THE GIRL WAS ONLY 13 or whatever. Evidently the men did not know because these girls were in fact women over 18 and they physically came to meet women over 18. Like it or not, I see nothing more than role playing. As I stated the men were stupid , and stupidity is not a crime. Convicting people of what we THINK is in their mind has crossed the line. George Orwell wrote a famous book about this. I am glad to see other intelligent people out there and again glad Texas did the right thing and stopped this unconstitutional practice, including invasion of privacy when the police are interrogating.
Hey Tampabay

Spring Hill, FL

#70 Jul 6, 2011
I am also in Tampabay, and ditto to seeing some people who can see beyond their noses. I know of my friends that post ads on Criagslist and they people they talk to ALWAYS lie their age. it will be a matter of time/crime that alone will be a crime if we keep heading in this direction & having people NOT look at the big picture. Look what happened with the Patriot Act. I have nothing to hide but I am so sick of seeing police in this area, all over pulling people over, being sneaky and the rate of incarceration & probation is staggering here in Pinellas. I don't want to live in fear & I do fear the police here. I got in big trouble and was threatened jail for loud music during the day! I wasn't aware there was a law that one can't have any loud noise before 11pm back in the day it was up till 11pm with respect of people of course..Did you know this? It's a long story but that was a real wake up call for me. It was a neighbor getting revenge on me for yelling at his barking dogs that barked 24/7
Jon

Michigan City, IN

#71 Oct 9, 2011
yes it is entrapment its the same as a police officer picking up a hooker without revealing hes a cop and then arresting her.
its not defending a pervert its obeying the law.
yes they themselves break the law but you dont break the law to catch a criminal.
there is no justice.
they are lied to humiliated and their lives basicly ruined.
yes its sick what they do. but imagine when you were a kid you broke the law im sure as a teenage adolescent. now imagine if there were an adult near by and yes they tell you to go for it then arrest you for doing so.
its illegal to entrap.
i do care that they do shit like they do. and it is very scary for the children. however im a strong believer in law and justice.
yes alot of you have children and your scared sick for them when it comes to people like this. but its just as much your fault for not being aware of your child and what they do. let the police find these criminals the legal way. the way chris does it is just a way of cutting hairs. using the media and journalism to tip toe around the law. if one of these men were smart enough they could very well sue the show and those involved with the set up.
yes its against the law to solicit sex to underaged children on the internet. but its illegal to lie and catch them. poching is illegal and this is basicly what it is. i dont like to defend these sick people but the law the law no matter what side your on.
Loren

Potsdam, Germany

#72 Jan 13, 2012
I think it is entrapment. I know people use the analogy of a police man selling you drugs to argue it is not entrapment, but this analogy is invalid. The correct analogy would be a police man offering you free drugs, and then you getting arrested for accepting.

This is obvious also from the show. The guys are total losers, and would not in any reasonable, realistic scenario, be able to attract an underage girl over the internet for relations they way they speak and look. Seriously, look at the "pick-up lines" the guys use in their chats (speaking graphically about sex) and how old and ugly most of these dudes are (and yet the girl always invites them in). So the analogy of a police man offering you free drugs is not even exact, it is more like a police man offering you free "never before seen, without precedent, never in the history of manking" drugs.
H Allison

Fresno, CA

#73 Jun 17, 2012
In the show, they haven't chatted with a minor. But, it's scarry to think about how many other minors/family members they have actually had sex with. Most of these guys that show up appear to be very confident and experienced. It's too easy to side with the adult man and believe it's entrapment... UNTIL you have had a child/niece/granddaughter that's been through this experience. If the adult man shouldn't be charged with anything then he shouldn't show up to meet the girl at all.

“Just my opinion”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#74 Jun 18, 2012
H Allison wrote:
In the show, they haven't chatted with a minor. But, it's scarry to think about how many other minors/family members they have actually had sex with. Most of these guys that show up appear to be very confident and experienced. It's too easy to side with the adult man and believe it's entrapment... UNTIL you have had a child/niece/granddaughter that's been through this experience. If the adult man shouldn't be charged with anything then he shouldn't show up to meet the girl at all.
You are actually proving my point. You are bringing emotion into this. I actually look at our law logically. Yes pedophilia is a horrible thing. Truly I do not want people to be arrested by what we think is in their mind. This show had a dangerous leap to our constitution. Were these men child molesters? Perhaps and most likely you are correct. I truly do see reasonable doubt especially if you have something called roleplay. Throw in invasion of privacy when the police are iv'ing them and that is yet another constitutional violation. Since Texas did claim this unconstitutional , the show has not been done again. The best thing people can do is to educate their children to possible bad people that want to do bad things to their body.

“Just my opinion”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#75 Jun 18, 2012
Jon wrote:
yes it is entrapment its the same as a police officer picking up a hooker without revealing hes a cop and then arresting her.
its not defending a pervert its obeying the law.
yes they themselves break the law but you dont break the law to catch a criminal.
there is no justice.
they are lied to humiliated and their lives basicly ruined.
yes its sick what they do. but imagine when you were a kid you broke the law im sure as a teenage adolescent. now imagine if there were an adult near by and yes they tell you to go for it then arrest you for doing so.
its illegal to entrap.
i do care that they do shit like they do. and it is very scary for the children. however im a strong believer in law and justice.
yes alot of you have children and your scared sick for them when it comes to people like this. but its just as much your fault for not being aware of your child and what they do. let the police find these criminals the legal way. the way chris does it is just a way of cutting hairs. using the media and journalism to tip toe around the law. if one of these men were smart enough they could very well sue the show and those involved with the set up.
yes its against the law to solicit sex to underaged children on the internet. but its illegal to lie and catch them. poching is illegal and this is basicly what it is. i dont like to defend these sick people but the law the law no matter what side your on.
Actually there was a man who killed himself in Texas and I believe his family sued. Do not know the outcome. Texas declared this unconstitutional and there has never been another Predator show.
eweiler

Kent, WA

#76 Dec 12, 2012
Entrapment is when law enforcement entices someone into an illegal action when the person was not otherwise going to do so.

In other words: I'm walking down the road, someone asks me, "do you want to buy crack?" I say, "no."

At this point-I have a choice to make... I can walk away or buy the crack-even though I said "no".

If the person offering the crack is persitent about me buying crack after I've said no and made it reasonably clear that I'm not interested in buying crack, and that person is law enforcement, they are entraping me.

You have to ask yourself this question: Who made the initial contact and attempt? You then have to ask yourself this question: what was the INTENT of the so-called 'alleged'?

A judge will look at the CONTENT of the things that happened and determine if what happens on Dateline is entrapment.

There are actual defenses that these guys can use. For one,'role playing' IF they prove that they knew that they were actually talking to someone who is over the age of consent (and 18 if pornography was involved).

Remember: these men were never talking to anyone who was actually 13 years old. However, the laws in many of these states allow for a conviction if the INTENT was there.

I have mixed feelings about what Dateline does. On one hand, these guys are absolutely in need of serious help. These guys are not just desperate-they are truly not well.

However, I believe that these people doing this like what they are doing a little too much-and I'm not talking about busting idiots.. I'm talking about the actual chatting and talking on the phone. You can see these people at Perverted Justice are a little off themselves-however, they are on the right side of the law.

If I were ever in a position these losers who knowingly chat with kids for sex (which makes me ill thinking about it), I'd make it clear that I knew it was a decoy and it was a role playing situation. Even though it's just as screwed up to role play with someone you think is 13 years old, it could be a viable defense.

The fact of the matter is, these guys never talked with anyone who was not a consenting adult.

Kids cannot consent to have sex. Thank God. But if perverted justice really wanted to teach anyone anything, they should teach parents how to keep their kids off the fucking internet and out of chatrooms which can be dangerous.

Bottom line.. These men are complete idiots and they are dangerous. They would have had sex with a 13 year old had they had the chance. They drive 100 miles for nothing? I don't think so. The drive for sex is something that is so strong that it drives these men to commit a serious crime that they all know is wrong.

That's another thing-every single one of these guys know it's wrong. It's never a good thing when you include in your chat, that they could be in trouble for chatting with young kids, or even ask if the 13 year old they are chatting to is a cop. That's REALLY bad as far as the law is concerned.

Overall, I'm glad the police are taking action. People tend to forget that people get very bold when they chat on the internet. It's very easy to act like someone you're not over the internet-especially when you're dealing with kids.

It's also those people who can't deal with people their own age, so when they have to meet someone in person, it's better they meet a young, vulnerable child so they can be dominate.

My two cents..
eweiler

Kent, WA

#77 Dec 12, 2012
One other thing..(Sorry, I don't get to talk to very many smart people).

I wonder who initiates the conversation? The decoy? I've read somewhere that they wait for the men to contact them first, but the decoys sometimes bring up sex first.

No matter what, an adult should not drive to have sex with someone who is a child. No child would ever talk me into having sex with them..

Which makes me wonder about these decoys... What are their intentions, exactly? Are they looking to catch child molestors, or are they interested in creating child molestors? The difference is: Child molestors are into sex with kids. These guys would screw anything...

These people at Perverted Justice really bother me for some reason. They're like the kids in high school who get off on telling the teacher on everyone... Look at their faces when they talk on the phone with these guys.. They look like they're really into it, which, if you think about it-is just as sick as these bastards who think it's okay to be alone at a 13 year old's house to have sex...

I'm actually surprised to see how many people online think Dateline NBC is entraping these people.

You know... Reality TV.. How real is it? You can tell, on certain reality shows, that they are acting and writing some of the show.. For example: Hardcore Pawn.. You can't tell me that someone would walk in to buy this butt ugly racoon hat that Ashley bet Seth wouldn't sell-which seemed obvious to the rest of us too...

How about "Caught Red Handed"? The show where they catch shoplifters. Ever notice the 'police' that 'arrest' the shoplifters look the same in every city, and they never have the city name on the uniforms?

So what's to stop Dateline NBC from enticing men from showing up to have sex with kids??? How do we really know what's going on in the chatroom? From Chris Hansen's log? PUHLEASE...

And this Chris Hansen guy. What a doofus he is. Seriously.. Nice voice. I'd rather listen to him as a muppet, which he sounds like, than watch him ask the same stupid questions over and over to these jackasses on his shows...

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