Letter: Solar not a wondrous investment

Letter: Solar not a wondrous investment

There are 54 comments on the Oroville Mercury-Register story from Jan 30, 2011, titled Letter: Solar not a wondrous investment. In it, Oroville Mercury-Register reports that:

May I suggest that the emperor has no clothes? I read the E-R's glowing assessment of solar power at Butte College with some amusement.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Oroville Mercury-Register.

LMAO

Irvington, KY

#26 Feb 2, 2011
South County wrote:
I don't know where the 20 year figure comes from either. The truth is that PV modules in current production will still be making power long after we are all gone.
As I stated, my goal is to become more independent of PG&E. This can be done a little at a time while paying cash for components.
The small system I have has already proven itself during long-term power outages. So I guess I have the last laugh while my neighbors are all shivering in the dark.
When the grid is down, electricity cannot be purchased at any price. What value is placed on that? How does that figure into the ROI calculations?
$900 and a extention cord.

&fe ature=related
John D

Chico, CA

#27 Feb 2, 2011
Solarman wrote:
<quoted text>Hey institutionalized pard! Drive a car? What's the pay back on that? Yeah PG&E IS laughing. Luddites such as yourself are part of the problem instead of part of the solution. Before YOU skew production numbers by cherry picking something YOU think proves your point. Propose some real numbers for a real installation. Where did you get the idea 20 years is the life of a system? You do understand that in 20 years electricity will not cost 15 to 20 cents a KWh like it does today?.
If your off grid system lasted 40 years you are still only down to 27 cents per kwh.

80 years to get to 13.5 cents per kwh.

All assuming no maintenance costs, no component failures - ever.

---

What is most disconcerting is that if the government stoped passing out those 30 percent subsidies the whole solar industry would dry up and blow away.

As stated in an article in the San Jose Mercury News this past Sunday an energy analyst described Solyndra as a "disaster waiting to happen".

“I'm Not Grumpy, I'm in Pain.”

Since: Feb 09

Butte County

#29 Feb 2, 2011
LMAO wrote:
<quoted text>$900 and a extention cord.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =P9y-d8OB9IsXX&feature=rel ated
LMAO is right. Backfeeding one leg of a home electrical system with a 2Kw generator using a suicide cord? Hilarious and dangerous at the same time. Not to mention illegal.

Notice how the cameraman sweeps right past the microwave oven, coffeemaker and toaster without noting how they are NOT being powered by the generator? Turn on one of those and you will hear the sound of silence as the generator stalls.

I can power more with my solar/battery setup without having to listen to a roaring generator, with less than the cost of the generator invested...and I don't have to buy fuel!

Yes, thank you for the LMAO!
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#30 Feb 2, 2011
John D wrote:
<quoted text>
If your off grid system lasted 40 years you are still only down to 27 cents per kwh.
80 years to get to 13.5 cents per kwh.
All assuming no maintenance costs, no component failures - ever.
---
What is most disconcerting is that if the government stoped passing out those 30 percent subsidies the whole solar industry would dry up and blow away.
As stated in an article in the San Jose Mercury News this past Sunday an energy analyst described Solyndra as a "disaster waiting to happen".
You've apparently missed the institutionalized part. Off grid is done for "other" reasons. Perhaps the local utility wants to put the entire burden of upgrading their infrastructure for an entire area on one customer. If it would cost $1 million to get electricity to a site $250,000 looks like a bargain. As for the 30% "subsidy", it was not always there, but there were people who installed a solar PV system on their home just the same. People in PG&E and SCE spheres of influence with their tiered electric rate structure have driven people to install some solar PV to offset or eliminate their electric bills. With the new panel micro-inverter technology that can be increased one panel and micro-inverter at a time, the cost of installing solar PV is coming down. The up side to the panel/micro-inverter type of system is each panel is isolated from failures or shading that has an overall effect on solar production. The panel/micro-inverter topology is also able to send information over the house wiring and you can monitor the system from the internet. You can see daily power generation for system and each panel. You can also see if a panel or micro-inverter is failing, which one and replace that unit. Look up ehphase energy, GE Andalay for examples.
Praxis

Morocco, IN

#31 Feb 2, 2011
South County wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO is right. Backfeeding one leg of a home electrical system with a 2Kw generator using a suicide cord? Hilarious and dangerous at the same time. Not to mention illegal.
Notice how the cameraman sweeps right past the microwave oven, coffeemaker and toaster without noting how they are NOT being powered by the generator? Turn on one of those and you will hear the sound of silence as the generator stalls.
I can power more with my solar/battery setup without having to listen to a roaring generator, with less than the cost of the generator invested...and I don't have to buy fuel!
Yes, thank you for the LMAO!
Why would you use only one hot leg ??? A 240 volt set up will feed both.

“I'm Not Grumpy, I'm in Pain.”

Since: Feb 09

Butte County

#32 Feb 2, 2011
John D wrote:
<quoted text>
If your off grid system lasted 40 years you are still only down to 27 cents per kwh.
80 years to get to 13.5 cents per kwh.
All assuming no maintenance costs, no component failures - ever.
John D, I will go out on a limb here and guess you are one of those who finance or lease a new vehicle every 3-5 years to satisfy your own vanity, after carefully researching your next "investment" via Consumer Reports. I would also assume you are completely convinced you are making the "proper" choice in doing so.

Sometimes, the benefits cannot be justified by analyzing every cent just for the sake of doing so. We must often take into account the intangible aspects that have no dollar value, but obviously have a positive effect.

I enjoy having light and heat when the grid is down. It cost me a few hundred dollars to enable this convenience, but I haven't worked it out to the penny, because it really doesn't matter. The cost of the KWh delivery I enjoy during those times is negligible, and I wager that others would gladly pay dearly for it, if it were available to them during such times.

I also drive a 19 year old vehicle that was purchased used and paid for in cash. It is not the prettiest thing, but vanity does not (and should not) enter into the equation. My total investment for 120K miles of use over the past 10 years, including maintenance is just short of $2500. Depreciation? When it finally dies, I'll just scrap it. BTW, I use it for work and receive $.50/mile reimbursement.

Crunch that.
LMAO

Irvington, KY

#33 Feb 2, 2011
South County wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO is right. Backfeeding one leg of a home electrical system with a 2Kw generator using a suicide cord? Hilarious and dangerous at the same time. Not to mention illegal.
Notice how the cameraman sweeps right past the microwave oven, coffeemaker and toaster without noting how they are NOT being powered by the generator? Turn on one of those and you will hear the sound of silence as the generator stalls.
I can power more with my solar/battery setup without having to listen to a roaring generator, with less than the cost of the generator invested...and I don't have to buy fuel!
Yes, thank you for the LMAO!
You don't know that, Maybe he has a 240 box with a plug he's powering back into his main entrance.

“I'm Not Grumpy, I'm in Pain.”

Since: Feb 09

Butte County

#34 Feb 2, 2011
Praxis wrote:
<quoted text>Why would you use only one hot leg ??? A 240 volt set up will feed both.
I assume that is because the inverter generator portrayed in the video has only 120V outlets. I would further add that the owner who would use a double male cord to backfeed his home likely has no knowledge of 240V circuits.
alex

United States

#35 Feb 2, 2011
John D wrote:
<quoted text>
If your off grid system lasted 40 years you are still only down to 27 cents per kwh.
80 years to get to 13.5 cents per kwh.
All assuming no maintenance costs, no component failures - ever.
---
What is most disconcerting is that if the government stoped passing out those 30 percent subsidies the whole solar industry would dry up and blow away.
As stated in an article in the San Jose Mercury News this past Sunday an energy analyst described Solyndra as a "disaster waiting to happen".
Solar has been here for a while now and long before the tax credit. I believe it will continue to grow as electric rates continue to rise due to fuel surcharges . As the worlds hunger for energy grows solar will have its place providing energy for homes and business.

“I'm Not Grumpy, I'm in Pain.”

Since: Feb 09

Butte County

#36 Feb 2, 2011
LMAO wrote:
<quoted text> You don't know that, Maybe he has a 240 box with a plug he's powering back into his main entrance.
The video clearly shows the 120V receptacle on the generator plugged directly into a 120V receptacle on the home. He is not feeding the home with 240V.

I suppose it is possible he jumpered the legs in his main panel to enable 120V power to the circuits on both legs, but I doubt such a clueless individual would expend the energy to do so. It could get expensive if he tried to power a 240V only device.

I also hope he had the presence of mind to turn off his main breaker before firing up the generator.
LMAO

Irvington, KY

#37 Feb 2, 2011
South County wrote:
<quoted text>
The video clearly shows the 120V receptacle on the generator plugged directly into a 120V receptacle on the home. He is not feeding the home with 240V.
I suppose it is possible he jumpered the legs in his main panel to enable 120V power to the circuits on both legs, but I doubt such a clueless individual would expend the energy to do so. It could get expensive if he tried to power a 240V only device.
I also hope he had the presence of mind to turn off his main breaker before firing up the generator.
You would hope. We had a 3 week power outage because of a Ice Storm a few years back and I think 10 or more souls departed the earth because of stupidy. Amazing that someone would run one inside a house.
John D

Chico, CA

#38 Feb 3, 2011
South County wrote:
<quoted text>
John D, I will go out on a limb here and guess you are one of those who finance or lease a new vehicle every 3-5 years to satisfy your own vanity.
All I did was the math.

Doing the math always upsets the Green bureaucrats.

Why spend taxpayer money and artificially drive up electric rates on something that is basically useless?

We get 150 times more power generation from burning wood.
John D

Chico, CA

#39 Feb 3, 2011
And unlike solar panels burning wood provides power 24 hours a day.
AMY___

United States

#40 Feb 3, 2011
And burning wood provides a lot of smoke....and after the wood is gone ????
lazertag

United States

#41 Feb 3, 2011
John D wrote:
<quoted text>
All I did was the math.
Doing the math always upsets the Green bureaucrats.
Why spend taxpayer money and artificially drive up electric rates on something that is basically useless?
We get 150 times more power generation from burning wood.
What ??? You still live in a cave ???
nuca

Chico, CA

#42 Feb 3, 2011
John D wrote:
And unlike solar panels burning wood provides power 24 hours a day.
same with tires bro
John D

Chico, CA

#43 Feb 4, 2011
AMY___ wrote:
And burning wood provides a lot of smoke....and after the wood is gone ????
You get about 5 percent of your electric power from burning wood - it's called Biomass. It is generated by burning logging slash and sawdust.

It's renewable. California is big on renewable.

About 14 percent of PG&E's energy mix is renewable.

Of that 30 percent comes from burning wood.

About 0.2 percent comes from solar.

There has been a war waged on energy production in this country with the silly notion that by some bizarre miracle solar and wind are the anwswers to our energy needs.

Some of you should wander over to the Drugde Report - there are power outages all over the southwest.

After years of "green this and green that" there is head line in the news this morning that says it all -

"Mexico cancels offer to send electricity".

The Green Marxist Enviromental movement has reduced us to asking a third world country for electricity because we refuse to produce enough of our own.

It's all in the math.
AMY___

United States

#44 Feb 4, 2011
John D wrote:
<quoted text>
You get about 5 percent of your electric power from burning wood - it's called Biomass. It is generated by burning logging slash and sawdust.
It's renewable. California is big on renewable.
About 14 percent of PG&E's energy mix is renewable.
Of that 30 percent comes from burning wood.
About 0.2 percent comes from solar.
There has been a war waged on energy production in this country with the silly notion that by some bizarre miracle solar and wind are the anwswers to our energy needs.
Some of you should wander over to the Drugde Report - there are power outages all over the southwest.
After years of "green this and green that" there is head line in the news this morning that says it all -
"Mexico cancels offer to send electricity".
The Green Marxist Enviromental movement has reduced us to asking a third world country for electricity because we refuse to produce enough of our own.
It's all in the math.
I can use math to make any point i want......still wrong !!
John D

Chico, CA

#45 Feb 4, 2011
AMY___ wrote:
<quoted text>I can use math to make any point i want......still wrong !!
No, I don't believe you can.

Solar has two problems -

1. Physics.

2. Economics.
LMAO

Irvington, KY

#46 Feb 4, 2011
How about Pig Shit. like Thunder Dome, here's my county's version of it.

Landfill Gas

Many of you may not know that Hardin County's very own Pearl Hollow landfill uses the methane gas produced from decaying garbage to power three generators at the landfill. These three units combined can generate up to 2.4 megawatts of electricity. That is enough energy to supply about 1,440 homes with clean renewable energy. A fourth unit will be added as the supply of methane increases over the next few years. Power from the plant is sold through our EnviroWatts program.

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