Call for arrest of watch captain who ...

Call for arrest of watch captain who shot kid

There are 29780 comments on the New York Daily News story from Mar 19, 2012, titled Call for arrest of watch captain who shot kid. In it, New York Daily News reports that:

ORLANDO, Fla. -- College students around Florida rallied Monday to demand the arrest of a white neighborhood watch captain who shot an unarmed black teen last month, though authorities may be hamstrung by a state law that allows people to defend themselves with deadly force.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at New York Daily News.

Level 7

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#30981 Jul 19, 2013
zazz wrote:
<quoted text>
I assume this is the same George Zimmerman who lied and said he was not familiar with the self defense and stand your ground laws.
Oh, I know it's perfectly OK when he lies, breaks laws, murders unarmed children so don't bother.
I think the fact that Zimmerman knew exactly what to say about claiming self defense goes to prove his story was tailored exactly as required.

Even Serino "prompted" him on what he needed to say.

And the jurors never appeared to take this into consideration when the State in closing arguments asked the key question, "Why did he have to lie?"

I can only conclude one of two things about the juror's decision....either they just weren't smart enough to put the pieces together, or, they had a "high pressure" juror with an agenda who wore down the others. On Saturday night, when it was announced the jurors had ordered dinner and continued to deliberate well into the evening, I thought it indicated the latter.

I could visualize my own mother giving in to pressure, especially when she was tired, but I never thought it would mean a not guilty verdict would be forthcoming up until just before the verdict was read, in what had to be the swiftest announcement I've ever seen in any high profile trial.

I still would like to ask those 6 ladies how it was possible (in their minds) for Zimmerman to reach his gun, as clearly, that wasn't possible based upon his own account.
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30982 Jul 19, 2013
ngrace wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the links. I watched them but not sure what they mean. Did Tracy Martin mean that Trayvon had been sitting on the porch earlier in the day or did he mean Trayvon went home after being followed by Zimmerman and left again?
Or was this just a grieving father who was in shock and vocalizing a bunch of random/ unconnected thoughts trying to put the pieces together in his own mind?
I don't think it means much, though, or I would have expected O'Mara to bring it out during the trial to support his self defense theory that Trayvon hid in order to "attack" Zimmerman, OR, the State would have used it to support their theory that Trayvon was trying to lead his attacker away from knowing where he lived.
Of course PORCH means nothing because whatever happened was god's plan!
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30983 Jul 19, 2013
ngrace wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the fact that Zimmerman knew exactly what to say about claiming self defense goes to prove his story was tailored exactly as required.
Even Serino "prompted" him on what he needed to say.
And the jurors never appeared to take this into consideration when the State in closing arguments asked the key question, "Why did he have to lie?"
I can only conclude one of two things about the juror's decision....either they just weren't smart enough to put the pieces together, or, they had a "high pressure" juror with an agenda who wore down the others. On Saturday night, when it was announced the jurors had ordered dinner and continued to deliberate well into the evening, I thought it indicated the latter.
I could visualize my own mother giving in to pressure, especially when she was tired, but I never thought it would mean a not guilty verdict would be forthcoming up until just before the verdict was read, in what had to be the swiftest announcement I've ever seen in any high profile trial.
I still would like to ask those 6 ladies how it was possible (in their minds) for Zimmerman to reach his gun, as clearly, that wasn't possible based upon his own account.
Accept the fact you're not going to be talking to those six ladies because they are not required to discuss their verdict with anyone, let alone sanctimonious you.

You wanted "the people" to decide whether or not GZ was guilty and they did. The public topic arising from this case has now moved forward to the larger picture to the issue of Stand Your Ground Laws and racism in general. Just give it time and I'll bet that White Supremacy terrorist groups become drawn into this same discussion.

“always”

Level 5

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#30984 Jul 19, 2013
ngrace wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the fact that Zimmerman knew exactly what to say about claiming self defense goes to prove his story was tailored exactly as required.
Even Serino "prompted" him on what he needed to say.
And the jurors never appeared to take this into consideration when the State in closing arguments asked the key question, "Why did he have to lie?"
I can only conclude one of two things about the juror's decision....either they just weren't smart enough to put the pieces together, or, they had a "high pressure" juror with an agenda who wore down the others. On Saturday night, when it was announced the jurors had ordered dinner and continued to deliberate well into the evening, I thought it indicated the latter.
I could visualize my own mother giving in to pressure, especially when she was tired, but I never thought it would mean a not guilty verdict would be forthcoming up until just before the verdict was read, in what had to be the swiftest announcement I've ever seen in any high profile trial.
I still would like to ask those 6 ladies how it was possible (in their minds) for Zimmerman to reach his gun, as clearly, that wasn't possible based upon his own account.
Osterman sat quietly in the SPD waiting room while George was interviewed by a lady who didn't know where The Retreat was at and had to use google earth to quiz George. No one at Sanford PD had a clue that a former Seminole County Deputy and current Federal Air Marshal was in the house? No one talked to him or cleared him as he entered the building while armed?

George didn't need to know sht about SYG or self defense so long as his pal Mark and he could sit down and craft a story that would pass legal muster. The guy and his wife wrote a book about Georgie...you can buy and read it. The guy and his wife appeared on Dr. Phil and told a different story than O'Mara offered during the trial and then got snotty with Trayvon's so called aunt.

How did the confrontation ignite into fisticuffs and wrestling around on the ground? That question was never answered...O'Mara, in closing explained that "somehow" the confrontation ended thirty feet from where it began. Where George said it began? George was walking back to his truck when attacked yet the contents of George's pockets began to spill out twenty feet away?

George was searching for the hooded stranger, found him and then at loss at what to do. He reached in his pocket for his phone.

Try that with a cop and see what happens.

A real thug would have sent George to ORMC on a helicopter...if the EMT's could have revived him.

Level 7

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#30985 Jul 19, 2013
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Osterman sat quietly in the SPD waiting room while George was interviewed by a lady who didn't know where The Retreat was at and had to use google earth to quiz George. No one at Sanford PD had a clue that a former Seminole County Deputy and current Federal Air Marshal was in the house? No one talked to him or cleared him as he entered the building while armed?
George didn't need to know sht about SYG or self defense so long as his pal Mark and he could sit down and craft a story that would pass legal muster. The guy and his wife wrote a book about Georgie...you can buy and read it. The guy and his wife appeared on Dr. Phil and told a different story than O'Mara offered during the trial and then got snotty with Trayvon's so called aunt.
How did the confrontation ignite into fisticuffs and wrestling around on the ground? That question was never answered...O'Mara, in closing explained that "somehow" the confrontation ended thirty feet from where it began. Where George said it began? George was walking back to his truck when attacked yet the contents of George's pockets began to spill out twenty feet away?
George was searching for the hooded stranger, found him and then at loss at what to do. He reached in his pocket for his phone.
Try that with a cop and see what happens.
A real thug would have sent George to ORMC on a helicopter...if the EMT's could have revived him.

So much we don't know, yet so much we can clearly see that doesn't add up, from the little we do know.

Excellent post.

President O'Bama: "Now, the question, for me, at least, and - and I think for a lot of folks is, "Where do we take this? How - how do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction?"

I think his questions make it abundantly clear that the only way to take this is by re-examining all the evidence and allowing the public to see ALL of the pieces and ALL of the issues surrounding the death of this kid.

Only then will his death be "part of God's plan" because good always come from bad.
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30989 Jul 19, 2013
ngrace wrote:
<quoted text>
So much we don't know, yet so much we can clearly see that doesn't add up, from the little we do know.
Excellent post.
President O'Bama: "Now, the question, for me, at least, and - and I think for a lot of folks is, "Where do we take this? How - how do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction?"
I think his questions make it abundantly clear that the only way to take this is by re-examining all the evidence and allowing the public to see ALL of the pieces and ALL of the issues surrounding the death of this kid.
Only then will his death be "part of God's plan" because good always come from bad.
You missed this part....

"The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries (sic) were properly instructed that in a -- in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant. And they rendered a verdict.

And once the jury's spoken, that's how our system works."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/19/politics/obama-...

******

Translation - case closed!

President Obama then goes on to say:

"That doesn't mean, though, that as a nation, we can't do some things that I think would be productive. So let me just give a couple of specifics that I'm still bouncing around with my staff, you know, so we're not rolling out some five-point plan, but some areas where I think all of us could potentially focus."

Where is it you see "reexamining all the evidence" listed......or for that matter "math lessons" to help you learn to add things up?

Nowhere -- only in your fantasy life!
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30993 Jul 19, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody is reviewing anything. Most citizens that live in Florida are behind the SYG law even as this case moved forward. They already announced that the SYG law in Florida is there to stay..
Any idea who is THEY already have announced that the SYD law in Florida in there to stay, because from everything I've read the debate is only beginning. And what difference does it make to anyone but the violent, bottomfeeders of society since the right of self-defense is written into laws elsewhere.

*******

"Ashton also does not believe the Trayvon Martin killing was a classic case for Florida’s controversial "stand your ground" law because Zimmerman was in a physical fight with Martin when the trigger was pulled.He does think the law should be revisited, particularly to restore the provision that a person has an obligation to retreat before using deadly force.

"It's not being used by innocent victims who are faced with violence, it's more frequently being used, as I think I've said before, by people who are intent on resolving their differences with violence. And it needs to be reconsidered,” he said."
http://m.wesh.com/news/state-attorney-jeff-as...
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30994 Jul 19, 2013
Senate panel to review 'stand your ground' laws
Catalina Camia, USA TODAY 2:33 p.m. EDT July 19, 2013

WASHINGTON — A key U.S. senator said Friday he will hold a hearing this fall on the self-defense laws known as "stand your ground."

Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the assistant Democratic leader, will conduct the hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee panel on civil rights that he chairs. Details on who will testify and the date of the hearing, likely to be held in September when senators get back from their summer recess, will be announced in the coming weeks.

The announcement came hours before President Obama made extraordinary comments Friday about unarmed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, whose death last year captivated the nation and sparked a debate about race. A jury acquitted George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges in Trayvon's death.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2...
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30995 Jul 19, 2013
President Obama --

I know that there's been commentary about the fact that the "Stand Your Ground" laws in Florida were not used as a defense in the case.

On the other hand, if we're sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms, even if there's a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that we'd like to see?

And for those who -- who resist that idea, that we should think about something like these Stand Your Ground laws, I just ask people to consider, if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman, who had followed him in a car, because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/19/politics/obama-...
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30996 Jul 19, 2013
Holder wades deeper into Zimmerman battle, calls for review of ‘stand-your-ground’
Published July 16, 2013
FoxNews.com

......."Separate and apart from the case that has drawn the nation's attention, it's time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods," Holder said.

The comments were a reference to so-called "stand-your-ground" laws, which in Florida and other states allow people to use deadly force if they think their life is being threatened.

The role that law played in the Zimmerman shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is a matter of dispute.
But Holder suggested the laws encourage confrontation, saying there "has always been" a legal defense for using deadly force when retreat is not an option.

"But we must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common sense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat, outside their home, if they can do so safely," Holder said. "By allowing -- and perhaps encouraging -- violent situations to escalate in public, such laws undermine public safety."

He called for a "hard look" at the laws. The crowd applauded as he said "we must stand our ground."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/16/ho...
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30998 Jul 19, 2013
"A Tampa Bay Times analysis of 200 "stand your ground" cases in Florida—the law was adopted there in 2005—found that the law has been inconsistently applied, with one man escaping homicide prosecution even though he left an altercation to get his gun from his car, returned and then shot the attacker."

http://news.yahoo.com/in-response-to-holder--...
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#30999 Jul 19, 2013
FLORIDA
Florida lawmakers want overhaul of ‘Stand Your Ground’ law 17

TOM BROWN, REUTERS

FIRST POSTED: THURSDAY, JULY 18, 2013 07:17 PM EDT | UPDATED: FRIDAY, JULY 19, 2013 12:51 AM EDT

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla.- Florida must either repeal its "Stand Your Ground" self-defence law or enact sweeping changes to avert more tragedies like the fatal shooting of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, Democratic leaders of the state's legislature said on Thursday.

"This bill actually encourages people to shoot their way out of situations and that's not how we live in a civilized society," Smith told a news conference. "It's a mentality that has permeated the state of Florida. It's a mentality of shoot first, and we should not have that in a civilized society."

Smith was joined by Florida House Democratic leader Perry Thurston.

<snip>

Smith and Thurston said a ballot initiative was likely if the legislature failed to change the law, voicing confidence that public outrage over the verdict would help generate enough signatures to place the matter on the ballot.

According to the instructions given to the jury, Zimmerman had "no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force" if he reasonably feared for his life or great bodily harm.

Though the Stand Your Ground law was not specifically cited as part of the defence mounted by Zimmerman's lawyers, Smith said the jury instructions that helped pave the way for his acquittal came directly from the statute.

Smith and Thurston were joined at their news conference by Broward County State Attorney Michael Satz, who said he and other law enforcement officials supported calls for an urgent overhaul of the Stand Your Ground law.

"I think putting in the statute that you do not have the duty to retreat is a mistake. I think life is precious and before you do that you should do everything in your power not to do that and to retreat if you possibly can," Satz said.

"Before there was a common law duty that you had to retreat before you used deadly force," he added. "I just don't think you need the Stand Your Ground statute."

The Florida statute was adopted under former Republican Governor Jeb Bush. Many other states, acting with broad support from the National Rifle Association, have followed Florida's lead over the last seven years.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/18/florida-...
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#31000 Jul 19, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Florida Governor Stands Firm On 'Stand Your Ground' Law
by GREG ALLEN
July 19, 2013
In the days after a Florida jury acquitted George Zimmerman in the killing of teenager Trayvon Martin, protesters camped out at Gov. Rick Scott's office in Tallahassee, calling for a meeting.
When Scott met with protesters on Thursday, one of the group's leaders, Philip Agnew, asked the governor to convene a special session of the Legislature to look at repealing the state's stand your ground law.
"It is the time for leadership," Agnew said. "The world is watching. Most definitely, the nation is watching. And you have the opportunity to stand tall above the rest."
Scott called for a statewide day of prayer for unity on Sunday, but he said he's not budging on stand your ground.
"I'm not going to call a special session," Scott told the protesters. "I don't believe right now that stand your ground should be changed. But I tell you right now, I appreciate you."
http://www.npr.org/2013/07/19/203594004/flori...
These talking heads can complain about Florida's SYG all they want, but this is a state issue and not a federal one. All the federal officials can do is put on a show for their constituents. They all know they are helpless because our Constitution guarantees State's Rights.
Please point out where in the above it indicates "the SYG Law is here to stay"?
NSBResident

Edgewater, FL

#31003 Jul 19, 2013
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Pathetic slop, where did you find it? Let me guess, the conservative shthouse?
Obviously Martin and Greene had no clue as to what had happened or how yet and you already know that the two weren't even at home to know where Trayvon might have been sitting, or not. Recall that they were in the attractions area at a Mason's affair?
You lie even when the truth would work better.
Hmm,, Obviously you can't read, or hear

Did you see them in Orlando? Those two have lied so much who knows where they were. Words out of both of their mouths said he was on the porch. There would be no reason for them to speak those words unless they saw him, or Brandi Green's son told them that Trayvon was just on the porch. Fits right in with that missing four minutes though.
NSBResident

Edgewater, FL

#31004 Jul 19, 2013
ngrace wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the links. I watched them but not sure what they mean. Did Tracy Martin mean that Trayvon had been sitting on the porch earlier in the day or did he mean Trayvon went home after being followed by Zimmerman and left again?
Or was this just a grieving father who was in shock and vocalizing a bunch of random/ unconnected thoughts trying to put the pieces together in his own mind?
I don't think it means much, though, or I would have expected O'Mara to bring it out during the trial to support his self defense theory that Trayvon hid in order to "attack" Zimmerman, OR, the State would have used it to support their theory that Trayvon was trying to lead his attacker away from knowing where he lived.
Or Brandi Green's son told them that Trayvon was "just on the porch" For both of them to say that Trayvon was just on the porch is a very odd thing for anyone to say grieving or not, considering they claim they were in Orlando all day. He would have had time to get to the porch and come back to where Zimmerman was.

Omara had his hands tied by the Judge regarding where he could go with anything related to Trayvon. I am sure that he also didn't want to risk appearing to be attacking the Financially Grieving Parents since things were pretty much going his way without bringing it up.

Either way, when your son has just been killed, to say that he was just on the porch is a very odd thing if you were 50 miles away from home. Unless, of course, someone told you he was there or you saw him yourself.
NSBResident

Edgewater, FL

#31006 Jul 19, 2013
Rambler wrote:
FLORIDA
Florida lawmakers want overhaul of ‘Stand Your Ground’ law 17
TOM BROWN, REUTERS
FIRST POSTED: THURSDAY, JULY 18, 2013 07:17 PM EDT | UPDATED: FRIDAY, JULY 19, 2013 12:51 AM EDT
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla.- Florida must either repeal its "Stand Your Ground" self-defence law or enact sweeping changes to avert more tragedies like the fatal shooting of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, Democratic leaders of the state's legislature said on Thursday.
"This bill actually encourages people to shoot their way out of situations and that's not how we live in a civilized society," Smith told a news conference. "It's a mentality that has permeated the state of Florida. It's a mentality of shoot first, and we should not have that in a civilized society."
Smith was joined by Florida House Democratic leader Perry Thurston.
<snip>
Smith and Thurston said a ballot initiative was likely if the legislature failed to change the law, voicing confidence that public outrage over the verdict would help generate enough signatures to place the matter on the ballot.
According to the instructions given to the jury, Zimmerman had "no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force" if he reasonably feared for his life or great bodily harm.
Though the Stand Your Ground law was not specifically cited as part of the defence mounted by Zimmerman's lawyers, Smith said the jury instructions that helped pave the way for his acquittal came directly from the statute.
Smith and Thurston were joined at their news conference by Broward County State Attorney Michael Satz, who said he and other law enforcement officials supported calls for an urgent overhaul of the Stand Your Ground law.
"I think putting in the statute that you do not have the duty to retreat is a mistake. I think life is precious and before you do that you should do everything in your power not to do that and to retreat if you possibly can," Satz said.
"Before there was a common law duty that you had to retreat before you used deadly force," he added. "I just don't think you need the Stand Your Ground statute."
The Florida statute was adopted under former Republican Governor Jeb Bush. Many other states, acting with broad support from the National Rifle Association, have followed Florida's lead over the last seven years.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/18/florida-...
Smith and Thurston, two black elected officials from the Senate and the FL House of Reps.

Maybe they should work more toward putting a damper on violence against law abiding citizens, rather than taking the law abiding citizens right to defend themselves against criminals.

“LEST WE FORGET...”

Since: Apr 09

MT DORA FL

#31009 Jul 19, 2013
Rambler wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed this part....
"The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries (sic) were properly instructed that in a -- in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant. And they rendered a verdict.
And once the jury's spoken, that's how our system works."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/19/politics/obama-...
******
Translation - case closed!
President Obama then goes on to say:
"That doesn't mean, though, that as a nation, we can't do some things that I think would be productive. So let me just give a couple of specifics that I'm still bouncing around with my staff, you know, so we're not rolling out some five-point plan, but some areas where I think all of us could potentially focus."
Where is it you see "reexamining all the evidence" listed......or for that matter "math lessons" to help you learn to add things up?
Nowhere -- only in your fantasy life!
good response

“LEST WE FORGET...”

Since: Apr 09

MT DORA FL

#31010 Jul 19, 2013
Rambler wrote:
Holder wades deeper into Zimmerman battle,
He called for a "hard look" at the laws. The crowd applauded as he said "we must stand our ground."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/16/ho...
Who did the crowd consist of...?
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#31013 Jul 19, 2013
NSBResident wrote:
<quoted text>
Smith and Thurston, two black elected officials from the Senate and the FL House of Reps.
Maybe they should work more toward putting a damper on violence against law abiding citizens, rather than taking the law abiding citizens right to defend themselves against criminals.
You mind explaining why "law abiding citizens" who have an opportunity to retreat and involve the authorities would prefer killing?
Rambler

Red Deer, Canada

#31015 Jul 19, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Right here:
""I'm not going to call a special session," Scott told the protesters. "I don't believe right now that stand your ground should be changed."
I don't believe "right now".......what do the added words "right now" mean to you?

Sorry, I'm busy "right now".

No, you can't eat that cake "right now".

I'm too tired to cut the grass "right now".

It means to me "but later I will".

Word games!

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