Oh Well Everything Else

Oh Well Everything Else

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Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#1 Aug 17, 2009
The place for things not Caylee related. Thought up by fabman and Zig for the Oh Well community.
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#2 Aug 17, 2009
Tadaaaaa!

Welcome everyone. Come post anything not Caylee related. Also a place to hang with fabman. So dude, when ya can chat now?
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#3 Aug 18, 2009
Hey teacherdan,

Well I watched the whole thing. Was just like I remembered. He really didn't talk about Global Warming. He talked for about 96% of the speech about how difficult it is to manage complex systems, then spent the last 4%(2 minutes) explaining why he is glad we can manage complex systems as long as we are humble? All fluff no body, which is the opposite of Dr. James Hansen or the NOVA "Dimming the Sun" program. I brought up some of the specifics I had difficulty with earlier on Oh Well III.

Since he didn't say anything about CO2 or other Global Warming topics I don't have much to say.

What did you think about "Dimming the Sun" and how it ties the earlier findings about global cooling (global dimming) with the Global Warming problem and makes it all fit. It explained both why Dr. Gerald Stanhill did not see a cooling of the temperature like he thought he should have, and why we don't measure as much of a warming from Global Warming as we should, it all fits.
nobody

Williamsburg, VA

#4 Aug 18, 2009
Hi Zig. I am not versed in these things other than having seen "inconvenient truth" however I do believe it's a major problem getting bigger. Perhaps will look into some of the things you guys are recommending seeing or reading to get a better background on it. Problem I end up seeing with this is the same one I see with a lot of other problems, I can't see a way to personally really make a difference with any real impact without having a bunch of money. Would love to drive a hybrid car and power my home by solar and buy organic, but I just can't afford it. I know that people who are TRULY committed do all these things and more - like stop driving a car altogether and etc, but I guess I am just not that committed to operate my life outside my normal spheres.

I don't know if your new topic will take off but appreciate your passion about this and I also appreciate hearing the other side. I don't think people are trying to be mean or dnr I just think it's outside the normal topic on OW as I am sure you understand.
nobody

Williamsburg, VA

#5 Aug 18, 2009
Zig, also regarding your OW post about Haleigh/Misty... I guess it's nice that you are trying to see Misty as possibly just a scared and uneducated and YOUNG girl.. she is surely all of those things. I think a lot of their focus on her is due, just as they say, to her sketchy accounts of what happened and the evidence that contradicts what she says. Surely she is scared. But is she scared because she wasn't there (but isn't admitting it) or is she scared because she KNOWS what happened (but isn't admitting it) or is she scared because SHE did something. Perhaps she didn't do it, but Ron did, or her cousin did, or a friend or something. The following is my opinion only based on my gut reactions of seeing what we have seen so far in that case. I think she knows what happened to Haleigh and I don't think it was an abduction. I think someone hurt her, and she is gone. I think it was either Ron and/or Misty that either did it or witnessed it. It may have been an "accident" but if it was, it was not a true "accident" but one that came about through abuse that went too far. The fact that she and Ron got married seems to be a bond or truce between them and serves as forgiveness for what one of them did from the other as well as a bond between them to keep this sealed. That is what it looks like to me.
I know you are a good Christian person and that you try to see the better side of people. I really hope you are right and that Misty did not actively harm that child or "let" someone else. I do think that Misty herself is a child and I think Ron is a predator of sorts. Ultimately I feel that even if Misty "did" this Ron bears most of the responsibility. If he loved his children he would not treat them as he did and he would not leave them in such a volatile and unstable situation.
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#6 Aug 18, 2009
nobody wrote:
Hi Zig. I am not versed in these things other than having seen "inconvenient truth" however I do believe it's a major problem getting bigger. Perhaps will look into some of the things you guys are recommending seeing or reading to get a better background on it. Problem I end up seeing with this is the same one I see with a lot of other problems, I can't see a way to personally really make a difference with any real impact without having a bunch of money. Would love to drive a hybrid car and power my home by solar and buy organic, but I just can't afford it. I know that people who are TRULY committed do all these things and more - like stop driving a car altogether and etc, but I guess I am just not that committed to operate my life outside my normal spheres.
I don't know if your new topic will take off but appreciate your passion about this and I also appreciate hearing the other side. I don't think people are trying to be mean or dnr I just think it's outside the normal topic on OW as I am sure you understand.
Hey nobody,

Well you are correct in that it is a little difficult to help in a major way now. The hydrogen age needs to be developed and filling stations set up. The electrical grid also has to be totally redone, major jobs which will really help out. There are a few things each person can do though that will make a big difference.

A real simple one is switch to compact-fluorescent light bulbs. I have used these for many years. My reading lamps, overhead room lights, basically all the lights in my apartment that I use are compact-fluorescents. They do more than regular bulbs, but they last almost forever. I moved into this apartment about 5 years ago. There is one lamp I use for a nightlight, and it stays on all night. I put that bulb in when I moved in and have not had to replace it yet, they last a very long time. I am often amazed at how long they do last. Also, they use much less electricity to provide the same amount of light, which saves money every month on your electric bill. Trust me, anyone who switches and then compares how long they last with how much they save on the electic bill will love them.

Another easy thing to do is to reduce the amount of meat we eat. The processing of meat, growing of crops to feed the animals, ship the animals, ship the animals feed, etc., etc., etc., make providing meat from animals a very heavy CO2 cost. In an article in Medscape Medical News, Laurie Barclay, MD writes, "Agricultural activity, notably livestock production, accounts for approximately one fifth (22%) of total greenhouse gas emissions, which is a similar contribution to that of industry and greater than that of transport." By reducing the meat we eat we can really help lower greenhouse gases, this one surprised me too.
http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/562956

Even lowering the amount of fish in important to reduce the amount of fish taken from declining fish stocks. Eat fish types that are Eco-friendly. For example albacore tuna, the more expensive type, is not Eco-friendly and are usually mass fished way beyond sustainability, they also have higher concentrations of mercury, as do bluefin tuna. The cheaper light tuna varieties instead of the white or albacore tuna is the better choice. Basically, in tuna eat the cheap stuff, it is better for you and Eco-friendly. Eat other Eco-friendly seafood as well.
http://www.edf.org/article.cfm...
http://www.edf.org/page.cfm...

Besides this we can do recycling. Lowering the amount of trash in landfills and increasing recycling products will help save resources and lesson CO2 some.

(cont.)
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#7 Aug 18, 2009
Hey nobody,

(cont.)

You can plant trees, literally, both to consume CO2 and provide food. Make your property a wealth of food for you and your family. Growing a nice garden can also help by reducing the amount of food that has to be grown and shipped. If you can grow some in your yard you save money, help lower CO2 by reducing the CO2 caused by growing and shipping the food commercially, and you get better, tastier, more nutritious food for your family, many levels of win. With the environmental problems we will be facing with warming temperatures and the cost of growing and transporting food as oil prices continue to rise as we use them up, having trees in our yards that both use CO2 from the atmosphere and provide us with food can be a great help.

There are many ways to become Eco-friendly too, to help save the earth from other pollution. Basically anything we can do to be a friend to the earth instead of an enemy will help the earth.

Another thing people can do is become informed, learn the details and the ways Exxon Mobile, Big Coal, and power producers are trying to fool us that Global Warming is not a problem. Then do what I do, tell others, and make sure they realize there is a real problem, which is very hard because of the amount of money that has been put into fooling people, and the success they have had so far. Once you become informed, and try to tell others to inform them, why not move on to your elected officials. Get the word out and tell the people who make the decisions they have to start doing the right thing. Support those leading the fight like James Hansen.

The last level is a difficult when, and requires real committment. That is civil disobediance. I don't recommend going out and standing in front of a coal train. But help organized civil disobediance movements. And be prepared to face the rath of those who aren't willing to accept the truth. There have been some wonderful examples of people doing just that. It is like stopping the Vietnam War. Nixon had to be shown he had to stop the war. We have to show those in power how important slowing Global Warming is to save our environment. I am handicapped, and at present unable to do this part. Maybe there is an arrest in my future though. Just not sure.

As you can see there are lots of ways to help. As you learn more of the truth and more about the problem you will find more stuff than this. I am still learning myself.
nobody

Williamsburg, VA

#8 Aug 18, 2009
Thanks, Zig. Interesting stuff. I have had my own garden in the past but I am too busy/lazy now to do it... have two nice raised beds that are full of tall weeds and I didn't even bother to plant. I put rotten fruit and stuff in there and hope that the squash will grow as a volunteer crop but it has not so far! Looked into solar for the house. For a little more than the cost of a new car I could go off grid on solar on my house, I think, according to what I have read. But nobody offers it at 0% financing and I can't afford the initial investment, which is a bummer. WHat I don't get is why more people who CAN afford it don't do it. Seems very odd to me that people would not want to generate their own power.
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#9 Aug 18, 2009
nobody wrote:
Zig, also regarding your OW post about Haleigh/Misty... I guess it's nice that you are trying to see Misty as possibly just a scared and uneducated and YOUNG girl.. she is surely all of those things. I think a lot of their focus on her is due, just as they say, to her sketchy accounts of what happened and the evidence that contradicts what she says. Surely she is scared. But is she scared because she wasn't there (but isn't admitting it) or is she scared because she KNOWS what happened (but isn't admitting it) or is she scared because SHE did something. Perhaps she didn't do it, but Ron did, or her cousin did, or a friend or something. The following is my opinion only based on my gut reactions of seeing what we have seen so far in that case. I think she knows what happened to Haleigh and I don't think it was an abduction. I think someone hurt her, and she is gone. I think it was either Ron and/or Misty that either did it or witnessed it. It may have been an "accident" but if it was, it was not a true "accident" but one that came about through abuse that went too far. The fact that she and Ron got married seems to be a bond or truce between them and serves as forgiveness for what one of them did from the other as well as a bond between them to keep this sealed. That is what it looks like to me.
I know you are a good Christian person and that you try to see the better side of people. I really hope you are right and that Misty did not actively harm that child or "let" someone else. I do think that Misty herself is a child and I think Ron is a predator of sorts. Ultimately I feel that even if Misty "did" this Ron bears most of the responsibility. If he loved his children he would not treat them as he did and he would not leave them in such a volatile and unstable situation.
Hey nobody,

I can't get a fix on it either, but then neither can the police.

One thing that puzzles me is that Ronald Jr. told Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh Cummings' mother, that a "man in black" had taken Haleigh. Now that to me is significant because he is only 4 and getting a kid to lie like that is no simple matter, it would be easy for police to find out if he was coached. Also, the information came from Crystal, not Misty, which suggests it is either true, or if they were able to convince Ronald Jr. to lie, then both Crystal and Misty would be involved in a cover up.

Now that information about "the man in black" in important with respect to Ronald Sr. the dad too. As the story goes, Ronald returned home to find out that Haleigh was missing, and they then called police. That means that there should be a record of Ronald working that day which is easily verified, and which the police obviously did, or he might be arrested already. So we know he worked when he said he did. So it is impossible to have both things true. Ronald couldn't have been working and taken Haleigh. If Ronald came home and disposed of Haleigh, then called the police they would have easily found that out. They have cleared the dad, so it looks like Misty was either "the man in black", or she was for some reason allowing "the man in black" to take Haleigh. I don't think it would be for payment for drugs. Not unless the dealer was a sex offender.

Misty's story is suspect. She said she awoke at 3:00am and found Haleigh was gone, but did nothing. The police were not called until Ronald got home. That don't make a lot of sense, unless Misty was so scared of Ronald she wanted to wait for him to decide what to do, or have him go look for Haleigh.

(cont.)
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#10 Aug 18, 2009
Hey nobody,

(cont.)

LE has the timeline to verify Ronalds actions and when he should have been home. The dogs hitting on Haleigh going out to the water may be important. LE saying they have cleared Ronald is I think important. Misty is clearly their focus.

Which leads to my confusion. Could someone have gone in and taken Haleigh? Did Misty fear Ronald enough to wait until he got home before he decided to call the police. And my last question, was Misty involved with the disappearance, or just afraid and because she doesn't know, looks guilty. I am just trying to use logic. Because LE has cleared Ronald, I don't consider him a "person of interest". My question is whether Misty is the only real "person of interest" so far, or just a scared kid who doesn't know and looks guilty. There are quite a few reports of the wrong person being convicted, and people who are uneducated get locked up usually. Those with more education and money can defend themselves.
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#11 Aug 18, 2009
nobody wrote:
Thanks, Zig. Interesting stuff. I have had my own garden in the past but I am too busy/lazy now to do it... have two nice raised beds that are full of tall weeds and I didn't even bother to plant. I put rotten fruit and stuff in there and hope that the squash will grow as a volunteer crop but it has not so far! Looked into solar for the house. For a little more than the cost of a new car I could go off grid on solar on my house, I think, according to what I have read. But nobody offers it at 0% financing and I can't afford the initial investment, which is a bummer. WHat I don't get is why more people who CAN afford it don't do it. Seems very odd to me that people would not want to generate their own power.
Hey nobody,

I envy your raised beds, lol. I can understand wanting to go off-grid. But the smaller things like compact-fluorescent lighting, reducing meat comsumption, recycling, becoming more Eco-friendly, etc. will help a lot. The planting trees etc. can help too.

The squash thing is a bad idea. A lot of the commercially grown food is hybrid stuff. They are varietys which are specially developed for the commercial growers. A lot of hybrids when you plant them will not make a good plant. They basically take a couple varietys and cross breed them to form a new variety. Problem is that the favorable qualities of the new plant are not shared by either of the other two. Example, variety A is cross bred with variety B to make variety C, which is the commercial variety. Vareity A tastes pretty good, but is easily damaged by bugs, and gets a bad mold on it. Variety B doesn't tast as good, but the fruits are huge and resistant to mold and insects. Variety C tastes fairly good, and can resist bugs and mold.

So you plant variety C. It won't produce plants that are variety C types. It will be usually either variety A or B. So instead of C, you get either good tasting fruit that molds or is eaten by insects before you eat it, or a lot of not so good tasting fruit. Not much of a choice.

(cont.)
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#12 Aug 18, 2009
Hey nobody,

(cont.- plant stuff)

Hey nobody,

You might try an organic, zero scaping type of vegetable garden, and put your wastes into a compost pile. Compost is garden gold. What I am saying is that the raised bed is your best friend, it will make gardening easier. The compost pile will be a good source of soil conditioner to keep your soil healthy and having the right stuff to grow healthy, happy plants. The organic method is best I think.

When I was in Hawaii, my ex-girlfriends grandma wanted to grow lettuce. She had a couple raised beds built for her by her church, which were about 4' square. They were constructed of cinder blocks and about 2' tall. I took PVC pipe and made some square frames that fit over the raised beds. Then we took screen and sewed it into a covering for the PVC frames, little greenhouse toppers to keep out the bugs. We let the screen extend past the frame so we could tuck the screen in and make a good seal to keep out bugs. When it was time to pick the lettuce it was easy to remove the screens. It worked great. She grew great lettuce, very tasty, and not a bug eaten spot on it.

With organic gardening you can learn how to plant good flowers with the food to help control pests. Putting a ground cover down helps stop weeds and keep in the moisture, making the plants healthier and easier to keep watered. I like to do drip irrigation too. It is fun messing with all the little tubes and sprayers, and real pretty when you turn it on. It also saves lots of water and does an excellent job of keeping the plants watered.

Plants are a favorite of mine. I am strongly considering working with plants as my work now. With being handicapped I am not quite sure how to do it. I have hope of improving my health so I can work with plants. I really love plants, but I don't have much of a green thumb. When I try to buy a plant I am sure for the plant it is like the "Arthur" movie when Dudley Moore sees his ex-fiance's dad grab the knife. I can just hear the plants yelling at each other, "do you think he's going to purchase a plant?(weeping plant style), I think we're gonna die, I think he's gonna buy a plant!!!"
nobody

Williamsburg, VA

#13 Aug 18, 2009
I'm not sure he's truly been "cleared." The one thing LE has said from the beginning, I thought, was that nobody was cleared. They have not treated him as a person of interest, but that does not mean he's not one. Just means they don't have anything on him yet. Sounded like he had a pretty good alibi of being at work, but the specific time spent at work was apparently not accounted for - as in, I don't know that someone vouched he was in their sight the whole time. Plus, we don't really know that whatever happened to Haleigh really happened in that window of time when he was at work. If someone hurt Haleigh and she died, could Junior have seen someone take her body, and not necessarily abduct her? With a little kid like that you just have no idea. And according to some accounts, Crystal and family have been trying to get counseling for Junior, but Ron as the custodial parent has some say in it and he will not allow it. That seems suspect. I think if that is true, then it could be because Ron/Misty are worried that some new things he knows will be recovered under the analysis of a counselor.
nobody

Williamsburg, VA

#14 Aug 18, 2009
I do use compact flourescents, and appreciate the savings as well as not having to change the bulbs all the time, but I don't care that much for the quality of the light. Plus then somebody comes out with some other article saying how harmful they are to dispose of if and when they do need to be replaced or if they accidentally break. They make it sound like you have to call Hazmat or something to get rid of them properly and that they will do horrible things to the landfills etc so you feel like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Thanks for the gardening ideas, and I guess you are right about the hybrid veggies, had not really thought that through. WHen I had a garden a friend gave me some of these little yellow cherry tomato plants. They were a wonderful plant that would grow year after year, all you had to do was dry one on the windowsill or something and then stick it back in the soil and new plants would grow. They were really sweet and plentiful. Even the dogs would eat them off the vine. I wish I had some of those plants now!
nobody

Williamsburg, VA

#15 Aug 18, 2009
Zig, maybe you could do something with hydroponix? I don't know that much about it but it seems like it might be easier on you than "dirt" gardening?
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#16 Aug 18, 2009
nobody wrote:
Zig, maybe you could do something with hydroponix? I don't know that much about it but it seems like it might be easier on you than "dirt" gardening?
Hey nobody,

That is an interesting idea. I was supposed to go and talk with the career specialists this summer. I haven't gone. The hydroponix idea could be interesting. Maybe working with greenhouses would work too. I also thought about being some kind of Agricultural Journalist, or some type of Agricultural writer.
cindy

Supply, NC

#17 Aug 18, 2009
Hi how are you today?
Recycle Rita

New Smyrna Beach, FL

#18 Aug 18, 2009
Hello everyone.
I was disappointed the other day when I went into town on trash day. I live in the country. We have large garbage containers supplied by our county, usually 1 per household. They also supply recycle bins, as many as you want. I passed about 14 of my neighbors houses and only 1 house besides my own had recycle bins out. I had 4 bins out and 1 can of trash. One of my neighbors had 3 large garbage containers out.
It seems we've become a society of waste.
Thanks for starting this thread:)
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#19 Aug 18, 2009
nobody wrote:
I'm not sure he's truly been "cleared." The one thing LE has said from the beginning, I thought, was that nobody was cleared. They have not treated him as a person of interest, but that does not mean he's not one. Just means they don't have anything on him yet. Sounded like he had a pretty good alibi of being at work, but the specific time spent at work was apparently not accounted for - as in, I don't know that someone vouched he was in their sight the whole time. Plus, we don't really know that whatever happened to Haleigh really happened in that window of time when he was at work. If someone hurt Haleigh and she died, could Junior have seen someone take her body, and not necessarily abduct her? With a little kid like that you just have no idea. And according to some accounts, Crystal and family have been trying to get counseling for Junior, but Ron as the custodial parent has some say in it and he will not allow it. That seems suspect. I think if that is true, then it could be because Ron/Misty are worried that some new things he knows will be recovered under the analysis of a counselor.
Hmmm. That is interesting, I did not know that about the counselling.
Zig

Winter Haven, FL

#20 Aug 18, 2009
nobody wrote:
I do use compact flourescents, and appreciate the savings as well as not having to change the bulbs all the time, but I don't care that much for the quality of the light. Plus then somebody comes out with some other article saying how harmful they are to dispose of if and when they do need to be replaced or if they accidentally break. They make it sound like you have to call Hazmat or something to get rid of them properly and that they will do horrible things to the landfills etc so you feel like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't!
Thanks for the gardening ideas, and I guess you are right about the hybrid veggies, had not really thought that through. WHen I had a garden a friend gave me some of these little yellow cherry tomato plants. They were a wonderful plant that would grow year after year, all you had to do was dry one on the windowsill or something and then stick it back in the soil and new plants would grow. They were really sweet and plentiful. Even the dogs would eat them off the vine. I wish I had some of those plants now!
Hey nobody,

Seed Catalogs. You probably want to look for Heirloom varieties, those grown long ago which normally will produce the same variety over and over again, although you can still cross pollinate them. Here is a site which has some heirloom cherry tomatoes, some seem to be yellow. The seeds aren't the cheapest, but since you can just replant them, they are a bargain. If you want to get picky you can learn to put them in baggies and do the pollination youself which is fun to guarrantee you get the exact same type of tomatoe again. Have fun.
http://www.tomatofest.com/cherry-tomato-seeds...

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