Child suicides: Recent suicides put s...

Child suicides: Recent suicides put spotlight on preventing tra...

There are 75 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Mar 30, 2009, titled Child suicides: Recent suicides put spotlight on preventing tra.... In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

Once considered taboo, childhood suicide and depression are being talked about with increasing candor, a social movement that became especially relevant last month when three Illinois children - a 10-year-old and two 11-year-olds - took their own lives in succession.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

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Mom

Wadsworth, IL

#1 Mar 30, 2009
How could anyone be against a curriculum that reaches out to kids?? Eagle Forum has NO ONE's best interests at heart!

Since: Feb 09

Chicago, IL

#2 Mar 30, 2009
An interesting article that highlights just one a section of the suicide problem. But several glaring items are conspicuous by their absence:

1. The Social Service Industry (private and governmental) is dominated by females who have never received any mandatory graduate school classes given by male adocates on how to listen to males; how to talk to males or how to explore womens internal biases, sexism and hetrophobia towards all things masculine. Yet they insist that they "know" what males think; why they do things; and how to change males.

2. The all feminists Industries of social work, nursing and education are totally unprepared and unable to address any issues relating to masculinity. Their entire focus is on one gender exclusively, to the planned exclusion of the other gender. Nearly 100% of the time when a male has any problem he's either steered towards "skirt run" agencies; female counselors; or shut out of ever freely expressing himself by female run classes/groups.

3. Nothing was even eluded to about the causal relationship of the destruction of the three party family unit where young males could have had a constant role model of a father present in favor of a proven disaster of a female dominated system where there is no experiential knowledge base present for anything masculine to thrive. Imagine if it were reversed: There would be cries for female programs to correct the corrosion of "feminists values and beliefs".

4. Nothing was said about the ever present factor of the 600,000 adult males who have committed suicide in the past 10 years, generally because they were denied the ability to bond in a meaningful way with their children or decisions by gender bashing family courts.

5. Nothing was said that recognizing a problem and turning it over to an already failed female system is a guarantee of more failure. Only when 50+% of social service programs are male orientated and exclusively male run will boys/men get a fair shot of gender specific programs that actually work and can prove their effectiveness.

6. Suicide is always an option. Ask anyone who works in an inpatient locked psy unit. They'll tell you, if a person is determined to kill themselves they will do it. Maybe not today, but it will happen. Saying that the goal is to prevent suicide is unreasonable and unachievable. Stabilizing is not prevention, only a temporary patch. The complexities of character and personality disorders (like BPD), the complexities of brain chemistry and the insidious complexities of female family control/viiolence behavior patterns is at times overwhelming. Keeping clearly in mind what can be done and what can not be done is extremely important. You will always run to the law when you start pushing to "intervene" in someone else life or family. Consent for treatment is absolutely mandatory.

This is not written as a wet blanket. This is written from the core of 35+ years of experience as a therapist, graduate school educator and male advocate. As some will accuse me of not understanding or "hating women", nothing could be further from the fact. Self destruction, be it BPD behavior or suicide, is no simple thing to understand. We live in a quick fix society where we're all promised perfect permanent change with no work required. This doesn't happen.

I applaud anyone who is willing to take about suicide but having dealt with its complexities I always offer caution. Emerge yourself in the hard realities of neuropsychiatry and neurophysiology. Find out what isn't know about self destructive behavior. Remove all blinders before you offer help. As I tell all my female graduate social work students who want to explore suicide treatment, you need a steel bra in this field - your heart will be ripped out every day.

John C. Reilly LCSW, BCD
Clinical Therapist and Supervisor
MRSSA

Chicago, IL

#3 Mar 30, 2009
The thing about NOT addressing the symptoms of depression and anxiety to adolescents is the stigma that silence creates around a disease. Unlike cancer, meningitis, leukemia or almost any other illness that can destroy a life, depression cannot be diagnosed unless the patient self-identifies, which requires that symptoms be identifiable and there be feeling of safety around diagnosis. By the time my husband was diagnosed with depression and anxiety, manifesting in panic attacks, he had kept his illness a secret from me for almost a year. He was burdened with the perception that he was crazy or broken, that he should just be able to get over it. He feared he would be ostracized by friends and family, that I would leave him if he revealed what he was suffering; this mind set had been fed by a community that shamefully hid instances of the depression in families, including his own. Had he known that 3 family members had struggled with depression, had their odd behavior been clarified rather than ignored, he might have received help sooner and saved himself months of torture.
It's so important that we open this up for discussion with kids, so they can learn to understand their emotions and reach out if they or someone else is in need of help.
Rob S

La Grange, IL

#4 Mar 30, 2009
The parental apathy I see at my kids school is being overlooked. I was the only parent that showed up for all but 1 soccer game. At basketball games, the oppossing teams bleachers are twice as full as ours. 30%^ turnout to parent-teacher conference is the norm. So many kids parents cannot give up their 8 hour weekly spa visit, nights out and other self-absorbed lifestyles. Some kids I am sure have problems that cannot be explained. But I see far too many kids starved for attention because their parents are too busy. Grandparents raise kids more and more. This is why the gangs can recruit so easily.
I feel that parental apathy has a lot to do with todays problems.
Marieliz

Chicago, IL

#5 Mar 30, 2009
My god what is going on in this world today children are takeing there own lives my heart goes out to these familys I pray the lord gives them peace with in them
Jennifer A

Chicago, IL

#6 Mar 30, 2009
And if things are the same as when I was a child, my heart breaks for these kids. When I said to a counselor in jr High school I was thinking about suicide, the cops were called, I was interrogated by the principal, social worker and a police officer about what I had said. I was send home before the school day had ended. I wasn't even allowed to my locker to get my stuff. I was taken home by the cops who spoke to my mom. I was grounded. My mom and dad told me they were embarrassed and humilated and I had brought shame to our family.
So yeah, if this is reaction schools are given, I can understand why kids are afraid to speak out.
colin

Chicago, IL

#7 Mar 30, 2009
that kid hanging in the bathroom did not commit suicide.
Tom Araya

Addison, IL

#8 Mar 30, 2009
Rob S is spot on w/the apathy thing. I'm starting to believe that more than half of the parents out there shouldn't be parents. If your not willing to make your kids the focal point of your lives then don't have them.

Suicide is a very complex issue. The reasons are many. Sadly, a lack of attention is one of the reasons people take their own lives.
rosco

United States

#9 Mar 30, 2009
Getting rid of guns in the home will help.
LaLaLa08

Pleasanton, CA

#10 Mar 30, 2009
therapist wrote:
An interesting article that highlights just one a section of the suicide problem. But several glaring items are conspicuous by their absence:
1. The Social Service Industry (private and governmental) is dominated by females who have never received any mandatory graduate school classes given by male adocates on how to listen to males; how to talk to males or how to explore womens internal biases, sexism and hetrophobia towards all things masculine. Yet they insist that they "know" what males think; why they do things; and how to change males.
2. The all feminists Industries of social work, nursing and education are totally unprepared and unable to address any issues relating to masculinity. Their entire focus is on one gender exclusively, to the planned exclusion of the other gender. Nearly 100% of the time when a male has any problem he's either steered towards "skirt run" agencies; female counselors; or shut out of ever freely expressing himself by female run classes/groups.
3. Nothing was even eluded to about the causal relationship of the destruction of the three party family unit where young males could have had a constant role model of a father present in favor of a proven disaster of a female dominated system where there is no experiential knowledge base present for anything masculine to thrive. Imagine if it were reversed: There would be cries for female programs to correct the corrosion of "feminists values and beliefs".
4. Nothing was said about the ever present factor of the 600,000 adult males who have committed suicide in the past 10 years, generally because they were denied the ability to bond in a meaningful way with their children or decisions by gender bashing family courts.
5. Nothing was said that recognizing a problem and turning it over to an already failed female system is a guarantee of more failure. Only when 50+% of social service programs are male orientated and exclusively male run will boys/men get a fair shot of gender specific programs that actually work and can prove their effectiveness.
6. Suicide is always an option. Ask anyone who works in an inpatient locked psy unit. They'll tell you, if a person is determined to kill themselves they will do it. Maybe not today, but it will happen. Saying that the goal is to prevent suicide is unreasonable and unachievable. Stabilizing is not prevention, only a temporary patch. The complexities of character and personality disorders (like BPD), the complexities of brain chemistry and the insidious complexities of female family control/viiolence behavior patterns is at times overwhelming. Keeping clearly in mind what can be done and what can not be done is extremely important. You will always run to the law when you start pushing to "intervene" in someone else life or family. Consent for treatment is absolutely mandatory.
This is not written as a wet blanket. This is written from the core of 35+ years of experience as a therapist, graduate school educator and male advocate. As some will accuse me of not understanding or "hating women", nothing could be further from the fact. Self destruction, be it BPD behavior or suicide, is no simple thing to understand. We live in a quick fix society where we're all promised perfect permanent change with no work required. This doesn't happen.
I applaud anyone who is willing to take about suicide but having dealt with its complexities I always offer caution. Emerge yourself in the hard realities of neuropsychiatry and neurophysiology. Find out what isn't know about self destructive behavior. Remove all blinders before you offer help. As I tell all my female graduate social work students who want to explore suicide treatment, you need a steel bra in this field - your heart will be ripped out every day.
John C. Reilly LCSW, BCD
Clinical Therapist and Supervisor
You are scary. Blatant misogynist parading as a therapist.
LaLaLa08

Pleasanton, CA

#11 Mar 30, 2009
therapist wrote:
An interesting article that highlights just one a section of the suicide problem. But several glaring items are conspicuous by their absence:
1. The Social Service Industry (private and governmental) is dominated by females who have never received any mandatory graduate school classes given by male adocates on how to listen to males; how to talk to males or how to explore womens internal biases, sexism and hetrophobia towards all things masculine. Yet they insist that they "know" what males think; why they do things; and how to change males.
2. The all feminists Industries of social work, nursing and education are totally unprepared and unable to address any issues relating to masculinity. Their entire focus is on one gender exclusively, to the planned exclusion of the other gender. Nearly 100% of the time when a male has any problem he's either steered towards "skirt run" agencies; female counselors; or shut out of ever freely expressing himself by female run classes/groups.
3. Nothing was even eluded to about the causal relationship of the destruction of the three party family unit where young males could have had a constant role model of a father present in favor of a proven disaster of a female dominated system where there is no experiential knowledge base present for anything masculine to thrive. Imagine if it were reversed: There would be cries for female programs to correct the corrosion of "feminists values and beliefs".
4. Nothing was said about the ever present factor of the 600,000 adult males who have committed suicide in the past 10 years, generally because they were denied the ability to bond in a meaningful way with their children or decisions by gender bashing family courts.
5. Nothing was said that recognizing a problem and turning it over to an already failed female system is a guarantee of more failure. Only when 50+% of social service programs are male orientated and exclusively male run will boys/men get a fair shot of gender specific programs that actually work and can prove their effectiveness.
6. Suicide is always an option. Ask anyone who works in an inpatient locked psy unit. They'll tell you, if a person is determined to kill themselves they will do it. Maybe not today, but it will happen. Saying that the goal is to prevent suicide is unreasonable and unachievable. Stabilizing is not prevention, only a temporary patch. The complexities of character and personality disorders (like BPD), the complexities of brain chemistry and the insidious complexities of female family control/viiolence behavior patterns is at times overwhelming. Keeping clearly in mind what can be done and ...
This is not written as a wet blanket. This is written from the core of 35+ years of experience as a therapist, graduate school educator and male advocate. As some will accuse me of not understanding or "hating women", nothing could be further from the fact. Self destruction, be it BPD behavior or suicide, is no simple thing to understand. We live in a quick fix society where we're all promised perfect permanent change with no work required. This doesn't happen.
I applaud anyone who is willing to take about suicide but having dealt with its complexities I always offer caution. Emerge yourself in the hard realities of neuropsychiatry and neurophysiology. Find out what isn't know about self destructive behavior. Remove all blinders before you offer help. As I tell all my female graduate social work students who want to explore suicide treatment, you need a steel bra in this field - your heart will be ripped out every day.
John C. Reilly LCSW, BCD
Clinical Therapist and Supervisor
You are scary. Blatant misogynist parading as a therapist. What is with the "steel bra" comment? Do you advocate your male students wear one, too?
Yikes

Waukegan, IL

#12 Mar 30, 2009
John C. Reilly, you are now on my avoid at all costs list. God help your patients.
scary

Oak Park, IL

#13 Mar 30, 2009
To "The Therapist"
First, you sound like you have sort of a bias yourself. We're talking about children here and these are little boys, not men.
Second, I was in therapy for years, with several male therapists and one female.
I felt more suicidal after those years than I've ever felt.
Just because you have a degree and special training under your belt, doesn't make you an expert.
I'd trust someone with a heart, a soul, some experience and the will to help before I'd EVER trust another psychiatrist whose main interest is in dealing their drugs and getting their $200 for 50 minutes.
It looks like the consensus on this board, Mr. Reilly, is that you are the one who needs help!
You frighten me.
Oakton parent

Aurora, IL

#14 Mar 30, 2009
colin wrote:
that kid hanging in the bathroom did not commit suicide.
Please think before you write.

Where is your evidence that the child at Oakton School did not commit suicide?

You are accusing someone of murder. Unless you have proof, you are libeling an entire student population and a school.

Please, as an adult, try to set a better example.

Since: Oct 07

Chicago, IL

#15 Mar 30, 2009
Mr. Reilly, I found it kind of fitting that your moniker puts you one space away from being "the rapist!" I've always heard that "you have to be crazy to treat the crazy," and unfortunately, you, sir/maam, just proved that saying to be true! This is not the forum for your psycho-babble, as your rant said NOTHING about the topic: adolescent or, more accruately, pre-pubescent suicide.

I don't know anything about the two eleven-year-olds mentioned in the article, but something has smelled rotten about Lewis' death since it was reported, and the stench is only growing more foul. No one reported a history of depression or suicidal thoughts until AFTER his body was discovered, and even then, it was a single aloof comment that he allegedly made to a teacher, which she conveniently recalled only AFTER his body had been found, and after an investigation had been launched.

I'm all for education-as-prevention, but this topic would have to be approached in an age-sensitive manner. The last thing we need is for schools to begin giving out pamphlets about suicide without any discussion (like they do in many schools about kids' changing bodies and sex)--leaving young kids who are vulnerable and confused to talk among themselves and figure it out. Then, we run the risk of suicide becoming the topic of the moment and the "cool thing" to say you've attempted, and it becomes more difficult to distinguish the real cries for help from those simply crying wolf!
unknown

United States

#16 Mar 30, 2009
More than suicide is a problem with kids who suffer from depression and low self esteem, My son is in prison today serving a 30 year sentence for molesting his young stepdaughter. While we labeled him incorrible as a child, I now believe he was severly depressed and suffered from very low self esteem. He was always short for the first 3 years he was the smallest child in his class, finally in later years there were girls shorter than him. I believe he felt more comfortable around younger children and I think if I or the school had realized that he seriously needed help he would not be in jail today. I think that we have got to delve into children who seem to have behavoural problems and find out why instead of just labeling them bad.
ChicagoRes

Springfield, IL

#17 Mar 30, 2009
Oakton parent wrote:
<quoted text>
Please think before you write.
Where is your evidence that the child at Oakton School did not commit suicide?
You are accusing someone of murder. Unless you have proof, you are libeling an entire student population and a school.
Please, as an adult, try to set a better example.
Where is the evidence the boy DID commit suicide? A hanging body isn't proof and the details seemed too little, too late. Are you one of those thinking, "Never in MY neighborhood!"

Since: Jan 09

Chicago, IL

#18 Mar 30, 2009
1. I completely agree that there are way too many selfish parents out there not spending enough time with their kids and not instilling in them the values, morals and confidence that most children have when they come from a loving family (note, I say "most" children). I think that it's safe to assume that the majority of the violence, hatred and suicide problems that are happening in our city/country can cycle back to parents who aren't doing their jobs as parents.
2. Therapist: I keep seeing your name pop up in posts, each time complaining about women. You say you don't hate women when obviously through all your repeated "expert" babble you have feelings of oppression by women. If you don't hate them you should be able to open your eyes enough to see both sides of the equation, not just the XY side.

-Signed, a non-therapist.
Sarah

United States

#19 Mar 30, 2009
ChicagoRes wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is the evidence the boy DID commit suicide? A hanging body isn't proof and the details seemed too little, too late. Are you one of those thinking, "Never in MY neighborhood!"
I agree with Colin and ChicagoRes. Something is just not right with that finding of suicide. I've thought so from the beginning.
blah blah

Prospect Heights, IL

#20 Mar 30, 2009
John C. Rielly...you are very scary. Please get out of your profession now. You have wayyy too much power and misguided views to have any influence over children.

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