What we think: Stop shielding pit bulls

S pike is gone, mauled to death earlier this month by a pit bull on the loose. The little Dachshund was the latest casualty of an out-of-control breed whose irresponsible owners are letting their animals terrorize dogs and people alike. Full Story
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Betsy

Morgantown, WV

#992 May 17, 2009
Turkey's point about the greyhounds is a good one.

Plus you'll never see any greyhound rescue saying that if you just "properly socialize" your greyhound with rabbits, and are a "calm consistent, confident pack leader," he'll be guaranteed to be fine with your pet rabbit. Just as pit bulls are bred to kill dogs and may do so whether or not they are "properly socialized," greyhounds are bred to chase and kill rabbits and may do so whether or not they are properly socialized.
Turkey

Manahawkin, NJ

#993 May 19, 2009
"Scenthounds and windhounds are frequently used in groups so they have been selected for tolerance of other dogs. Sporting dogs are often taken out to hunt by people other than their owners which has resulted in selecting for a tolerance of people as well (relatively low levels of territoriality).
The tolerance for other dogs and people is one of the pluses of hunting dog ownership for the average owner. However if you are contemplating a dog from the hunting dog breeds, you need to realize that the tolerance is due to a supression of intra-specific aggression. In the case of windhounds and scenthounds, where the dog is still expected to capture fleeing prey, should the dog decide that some animal is not to be treated as a member of its own species, but rather as a prey, the dog can be very dangerous to that animal (or a small human) without showing any of the behaviors, such as growling and barking, that most people associate with danger from a dog. Hunting animals do not growl and bark at the prey, that would scare it off, rather they show a silent, intense, focused fascination similar to the expression your dog will show towards a VERY TASTY treat that you are offering...As with wild carnivores, if they are not hunting they tend to lie around and sleep." http://www.netpets.org/dogs/reference/breedin...
What this tells me is that a dog designed to work with people is going to be a safer dog than a dog that worked without people - guarding, fighting, etc. A hunting dog was a valuable family member to early man - these were probably the only dogs actually bred not only for function but for their ability to get along with people. They slept a lot and had to sleep underfoot, with families, without problems. Here are dogs with suppressed intra-species aggression where fighting dogs would have the reverse. If social breeds can still be a risk to other animals and children, what does that say about pit bulls?
Jenni13

Philadelphia, PA

#994 May 21, 2009
Don't bother commenting on my post because I haven't been on this board nor do I intend to come back and read any more garbage from anyone. This story was just posted on the BBC News site today and it was too important not to re-post. At least the people across the pond seem to be getting some common sense that breed bans don't work and that it's the "owners at the end of the leash" that are the problem. Now if only the dimwits in this country could get it through their thick skulls. Pay particular attention to the thug they interviewed. He says that the "sentences ain't that big" and therefore they don't give a second thought to training their dogs to kill because they DON'T CARE if they get caught. The laws aren't tough enough and the thugs don't care. Not like it hasn't been beaten to death already, but one more time.... it's the PEOPLE and not the BREED. Have a nice life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8061037.stm
Turkey

Manahawkin, NJ

#995 May 21, 2009
Another rude, obnoxious, uneducated pit bull apologist. Jenni, bans do work, you have been lied to about that. And yes it is the breed because no other breed has this amount of problems. I think if you had bothered to read some of our posts you would find that we are not asking for a ban but instead asking for better owners, which seems to be your beef as well. Hey, look at that, we agree, no name calling necessary. So when are you going to start advocating for tougher laws and start educating your fellow owners? Because if you did, and other people like you did, I don't think there would be much need for bans.
Betsy

Morgantown, WV

#996 May 22, 2009
Jenni,

I don't get it. Having a dog who seriously injures or kills a person gets a person charged with a felony in Texas. Yet two children were killed by pit bulls last month alone in Texas.

What do you want to change?

And even assuming the admitted liar in the story isn't lying about a lot of stuff (Lying is kind of what admitted liars do, after all), wouldn't it be great to be able to force him to neuter and microchip his pit bull mix so he can't breed more like him? And if the BREEDER of that guy's dog had been forced to neuter HIS pit bull, it is pretty likely that that guy wouldn't have had a dog to use as a weapon.

Your solution seems to be to wait until that guy's dog kills a child and then lock him up. That doesn't seem to be working too well in Texas and it doesn't do a thing for the child who was killed.
Turkey

Manahawkin, NJ

#997 May 22, 2009
Jenni13 wrote:
Pay particular attention to the thug they interviewed. He says that the "sentences ain't that big" and therefore they don't give a second thought to training their dogs to kill because they DON'T CARE if they get caught.
So laws that punish after the fact don't matter. Thank you for pointing that out Jenni. Also thank you for pointint out that people are breeding and training pit bulls to attack and kill people. For all the talk of dog aggression and human aggression are different things, and they are, it doesn't really matter when a dog has both. The whole article is about using dogs as weapons against other people, and only certain types of dogs are used, not all dogs. It seems even these thugs are smart enough to realize you just can't teach any old dog to attack and that breeding matters. Looks like they know more about pit bulls than the average pit owner.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#998 Jun 14, 2009
Karen Delise wrote:
Betsy,
The reason I don't post EVERYTHING I know about EVERY fatality is because I have over 650 cases.
I would need a dozen websites to put it all on - and really, what would be the point? So you can cherry-pick only the information that suits your agenda, which is exactly what you did with my first book?
And as far as dogsbite.org -- they merely copy and paste newspaper articles - their information is neither reliable, nor accurate.
Still makes us unable to verify your reports, Karen. DogsBite.org has her links up and anyone can see where she gets the info. She has probably as many or more than you but she posts them. And to say that newspaper articles are not reliable, the pictures of the attacking dogs are reliable and most of the time the dog's picture is there as well. Doesn't matter because you are the one that needs to be verified, not DogsBite.org . You are the one who hides your "reports". And I want my money back too. By the way, who paid for your books to be published?
Knowledge is Power

United States

#999 Jun 14, 2009
Jenni13 wrote:
Don't bother commenting on my post because I haven't been on this board nor do I intend to come back and read any more garbage from anyone. This story was just posted on the BBC News site today and it was too important not to re-post. At least the people across the pond seem to be getting some common sense that breed bans don't work and that it's the "owners at the end of the leash" that are the problem. Now if only the dimwits in this country could get it through their thick skulls. Pay particular attention to the thug they interviewed. He says that the "sentences ain't that big" and therefore they don't give a second thought to training their dogs to kill because they DON'T CARE if they get caught. The laws aren't tough enough and the thugs don't care. Not like it hasn't been beaten to death already, but one more time.... it's the PEOPLE and not the BREED. Have a nice life.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8061037.stm
If you bothered to read the above link, it says they are to strengthen their ban rather than do away with it. They found that there were flaws in enforcing and they are closing the loopholes. Again you jumped on a bandwagon without looking.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1000 Jun 14, 2009
Betsy wrote:
Turkey's point about the greyhounds is a good one.
Plus you'll never see any greyhound rescue saying that if you just "properly socialize" your greyhound with rabbits, and are a "calm consistent, confident pack leader," he'll be guaranteed to be fine with your pet rabbit. Just as pit bulls are bred to kill dogs and may do so whether or not they are "properly socialized," greyhounds are bred to chase and kill rabbits and may do so whether or not they are properly socialized.
Exactly, dogs do what they have been bred to do. Too many people have been mauled and killed trying to save their own pets from these dogs. They don't belong in society. We created them and we can ban them.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1001 Jun 14, 2009
Betsy wrote:
There is actually a much more fundamental problem with using the American Temperament Test statistics to figure out anything re breed temperaments. That is, the test is simply not a good measure of anything related to aggression or dangerousness.
Dogs DO flunk the test, but I would be surprised if even 1% of the flunkees flunk because of the "friendly stranger" portion of the test. Yes, there are pit bulls and other dogs so dangerous that they would behave overtly aggressively toward even a friendly stranger, but their owners aren' shelling out $30 to take the ATTS test. So any dog whose owner is having him take the test is going to pass that part.
Later we have the "weirdly dressed stranger" (if they really wanted to test temperament, they should have had the friendly stranger be weirdly dressed, not the aggressive one, don't you think?) where the dog is allowed to bark, lunge and do pretty much anything other than cower and tremble.
Most of the dogs I have heard of who didn't pass the ATTS test flunked because they wouldn't touch the umbrella with their nose. A few wouldn't walk across the plastic or the x-pen or were too freaked by the gunshots. I have NEVER heard of a dog flunking because of aggression.
In short, the test may test (very superficially) for boldness, but it doesn't test for dangerousness.
Plus, nobody ever mentions that the results re BREED SPECIFIC> Passing behavior for one breed is not passing for another, supposedly. It is not a standardized test.
This test was designed by the pit nutters trying to justify that pits are okay. It is not an indicator of people aggression. If a dog did come to the test and showed aggression toward people, don't you think they would ask that owner to take his dog and leave? They wouldn't let an aggressive dog stay in a crowd of people, that's too much of a liability. But it sounds good for the pit nutters to say their dog passed this test when they are getting sued for an attack.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1002 Jun 14, 2009
Pit owner wrote:
Betsy, Turkey, Dog Lover -- I don't care about the minutiae of the law, ok? I don't care if a case is precedent or non-precedent, is reported or non-reported, was properly cited or improperly cited, blah blah blah blah boring blah blah blah. What I care about is that of this past week's photos and listings of dogs in our local pound - almost all of them in the county's shelter, slated to be put down, are pits. Most appear to be young, healthy, strong, adoptable, trainable. I wish I could adopt one, but I can't. Rather than spending time and energy attacking people who are responsibly trying to take care of a pit, or to breed pits responsibly, if all you turkeys on here truly don't hate pits, why don't you go adopt one? You all dismiss my stories about how good my pit is by saying, oh well, you got a gentle one, good for you. No, she wasn't that gentle when I got her. I'm not trying to glorify myself, but my point is, maybe they're ALL (or many are) potentially good, and it's how you treat them. Despite what you say, Betsy, supposedly as some "expert" (who ARE you, anyway??) I have no fear whatsoever of my dog, around my face, around my friends, around my kittens etc. etc. Actions speak louder than words. It means very little to sit at a computer and write a blog. DO SOMETHING for these dogs, which I am TELLING you can be wonderful pets. YOU bloggers are not telling ME how they are - I AM telling YOU how they are. Got it? If you're a researcher, you know how it goes. You observe the subject, you don't tell the subject what the research shows. I say, "I have a pit who'se great with my kittens." You say, "The research shows that pits are not to be trusted around kittens." OK - and I don't doubt you could find some research that shows that - but I'M telling YOU, in my case, my dog IS fine around kittens. I don't care what some research shows - it's meaningless to me. You "observers" should stop telling others how stupid they are for "living their life" and go "get a life" yourselves! Geez! Gimme a break! Now if YOU go and turn a dog - previously abused, previously beaten, previously put in fights and mauled numerous times itself - into a sweet, loving, adoring, affectionate, gentle, loyal, irreplaceable pet and part of the family, THEN, I will applaud you, I will give you a pat on the back, I will say that's swell, I will say "you go girl" - because THEN -- rather than attacking people and the breed - which you seem to have no personal, hands-on experience with - and perpetrating continued hysteria which could lead to the eventual decline and potential extinction of the entire breed, you will have done something GOOD - like I did - you rehabilitated a dog, you raised one up to be good, and you deserve a pat on the back for that. And, I daresay, something CAN be learned by that.
Would you want this person AND a pit living next door to you? These pit nutters are their own worst enemies in this fight. Please continue to show people what you are because it helps us to bring about regulation and bans.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1003 Jun 14, 2009
A fine example of a pit bull owner:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx...
June 6, 2009
He was suspected of lighting at least 26 fires in the Los Angeles region in 2006 before a blaze took the lives of five firefighters on October 26 that year.

The fire also destroyed 34 homes and 20 other buildings, consuming more than 16,000 hectares of land.

According to the prosecution, Oyler had wanted to hit out at the emergency services after they seized and destroyed his dog, a pitbull.

These firefighters had families and friends. They are lost to their families and friends because of a pit nutter. See how they love their dogs, enough to kill innocent people over them.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1004 Jun 14, 2009
Monika Courtney wrote:
hey all,
check this out:
www.dogbreedinfo.com/children.htm
check out the safety ratings on the American Bully and American Bulldog.
How is that for convincing ?
Tell this to Charlotte Blevins or Frankie Floria or Justin Cutrer or any one of the hundreds of children who suffer with the life altering injuries inflicted by a pit/pit type. They are the lucky ones, they lived. You can talk with them but no, you don't want to know about the victims. You don't care that there are hundreds of victims of these dogs, all you want to do is justify owning a dangerous dog. Research your research, see who pays for it and what their interest is. It's pretty obvious.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1005 Jun 14, 2009
An example of Canadian pit owners:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html...

The former Sidney resident was wanted in relation to a number of attacks by pit bulls on Vancouver Island and in Surrey in the last 11 months, including one in North Saanich on July 7.

Police allege that in an 11-month reign of terror, five to eight pit bull-crosses owned by Harris have attacked other dogs and pedestrians.

BUT I'M SURE HE PROBABLY "RAISED THEM RIGHT".
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1006 Jun 14, 2009
reminder wrote:
Clarksburg W. Va.
US postal authorities will cease the delivery of mail to one neighborhood with about 20 residents until Cozmo is relocated or otherwise removed from the area.
While the dog has never bitten anyone he frequently breaks loose and terrorizes the neighborhood in a host of other ways.
Cosmo is a twenty pound Jack Russell terrier!
And what does this have to do with the cost of tea in China? Are you trying to make a point that all dogs bite? We won't disagree with you, but pits don't let go, there's the difference.
Jenni13

Philadelphia, PA

#1007 Jun 15, 2009
Knowledge is Power wrote:
<quoted text>
If you bothered to read the above link, it says they are to strengthen their ban rather than do away with it. They found that there were flaws in enforcing and they are closing the loopholes. Again you jumped on a bandwagon without looking.
Ummmmm.... the only person here "jumping on a bandwagon without looking" is you, "Knowledge." The last time anyone posted on this discussion was a month ago. A little late to the party as usual. Duh. Get a life.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1008 Jun 15, 2009
Jenni13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ummmmm.... the only person here "jumping on a bandwagon without looking" is you, "Knowledge." The last time anyone posted on this discussion was a month ago. A little late to the party as usual. Duh. Get a life.
Just couldn't stay away, huh Jennie? I thought you grabbed your toys and went home.I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Knowledge is Power

United States

#1009 Jun 16, 2009
Meet the latest victim of a pit/pit type. These dogs may be American Bulldogs. But if it looks like a pit, and kills like a pit, then it must be a pit.

http://www.news-journal.com/news/content/news...
"We just can't believe it. The mother is not taking it very well, and the grandmother is devastated," said Carolyn Spence , the boy's great-aunt. "These are vicious dogs, and they are so unpredictable. There are states that outlaw these types of dogs. This should have never happened to Justin."
Jenni13

Philadelphia, PA

#1010 Jun 16, 2009
Knowledge is Power wrote:
<quoted text>
Just couldn't stay away, huh Jennie? I thought you grabbed your toys and went home.I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Of course you have no idea what I'm talking about. That's not a shocker. You have no idea what anyone is talking about... ever. The last time anyone posted on this thread was a month ago. YOU are late to the party here, sweetie. What is so hard to understand about that??? The only reason why I even checked here is because after a month, I suddenly got an alert in my email that someone posted on this board and I was curious. Lo and behold, it's you! No one else is even reading this board and the discussion was ended a month ago. So, go ahead and keep posting here. It's actually quite funny. Your cluelessness is astounding!
Animal lover

Duluth, GA

#1011 May 24, 2013
Of the 248 fatal attacks(in that 20 year study) that they could positively identify the breed, 76 were pit bull terriers. The next largest group was the rotweiller at 44 fatalities. I agree that there is definitely a correlation between owner and aggressive dog behavior, but I have seen firsthand lovely owners of pit bulls where the dog suddenly becomes aggressive as an adult.(they really are cute as puppies!) So much so that they have to euthanize the poor animal in fear of the safety of the public. Keeping in mind that the owner did nothing to provoke this. I own a minpin and he happens to be very aggressive and possessive of his toys. His father was the same way. We provided him with a loving home but it is sometimes just something innate in the breed. I do not allow children to play with him. If he were a bigger dog, I would really have to reevaluate keeping him...
Sometimes it is just DNA and there is no refuting it...sorry...

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