Gang activity alarms Deltona, which p...

Gang activity alarms Deltona, which plans school crackdown -- O...

There are 108 comments on the Orlando Sentinel story from Jun 21, 2007, titled Gang activity alarms Deltona, which plans school crackdown -- O.... In it, Orlando Sentinel reports that:

Signs of gang activity are cropping up all over Deltona, stirring fears that this Volusia bedroom community could become Central Florida's next hotbed for street gangs.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Orlando Sentinel.

Diana

Boca Raton, FL

#23 Jun 21, 2007
what a choice having black hispanic kids in gangs or having white kids beat up on their parents the first time mom or dad say no to them so see white people don't talk about diciplining your kids if you can't do it yourself
Exaggerated

Allen, TX

#24 Jun 21, 2007
I just love how Deltona gets slammed all of the time for problems that are in each and every city. Sorry folks, Mayberry doesn't exist anymore. Deltona has issues and at the core of them usually are dead beat parents
who do not responsibly rear their children to be respectful and truly understand the value of a education. Our church has a outreach program and unfortunately most of the non-regulars get dumped off to be baby sitting purposes only as the parents have no involvement and just use the program as free Juvvie Hall bBabysitter.
Drug abuse, alcohol abuse, illiteracy, all cause and effect of irresponsible behavior hence the crime.
Using racist statements about our citizens is about as helpful as me writing in this post.
There is plenty of trash out here in Deltona that comes in all colors and religion across the board. Tonight the city will have another meeting that will propose a curfew in which I
fully support. The parents who will object will be the ones who don't want to take responsibility for their kids who would ultimately be the ones being dragged home by law enforcement. This community has wonderful people and civic involvement, give us the duly respect all citizens deserve.
Sad But True

Allen, TX

#25 Jun 21, 2007
Statistics are what they are so maybe it's a cultural thing. Yet you will be ignored as we've learned this the only way to deal with this problem. And still they want to pass immigration reform. Have we not learned from our mistake of March 2, 1917?
long time resident

United States

#26 Jun 21, 2007
Being in Deltona for almost 20 yrs, I see the changes. Also teaching in one of the high schools, I have constant contact w/ the teens. Many are good kids looking to make their way in the world. I have also had sudents who live here w/out their parents. They've been sent from up north to get away from trouble. Either trouble they were in or trying to avoid. Believe it or not, those are the most responsible kids. But I wholheartedly agree- parents need to step up and take responsibility for their kids actions. BE AN ADULT- BE RESPONSIBLE.
Deltona is not the nightmare the media would like to continue to portray.
Exaggerated

Allen, TX

#27 Jun 21, 2007
Good to see some more positives from my neighbors.
I have several friends who are educators out here and they concur your sentiments. So many of the kids I meet often have no parental supervision or parental guardianship in many cases and never have anyone motivating them or instilling any discipline. Like our parents always told us, you want to see how you are going to turn out, look at the friends you are running with. Deltona has some great kids, our teen ministry is a perfect example sending wonderful well rounded kids out into world the each and every year whether in the work force or advanced education. Yes, it is changing out here but we can make differences if we participate and be active, not just passive puppets who want to complain all of the time but offer no solutions.
long time resident wrote:
Being in Deltona for almost 20 yrs, I see the changes. Also teaching in one of the high schools, I have constant contact w/ the teens. Many are good kids looking to make their way in the world. I have also had sudents who live here w/out their parents. They've been sent from up north to get away from trouble. Either trouble they were in or trying to avoid. Believe it or not, those are the most responsible kids. But I wholheartedly agree- parents need to step up and take responsibility for their kids actions. BE AN ADULT- BE RESPONSIBLE.
Deltona is not the nightmare the media would like to continue to portray.
Mike - Deltona

Allen, TX

#28 Jun 21, 2007
People need to get involved within their community and if means calling the cops when you see a bunch of kids causing trouble then that's what we need to do. All too often citizens simply look away or assume someone else will handle the problem. Yet in the morning when damage is done they are first to talk the loudest. People, if see something then do something. At this point having dealt with too many parents who are trying to be friends to their kids, you're better off calling the cops.
Joseph

Kalamazoo, MI

#29 Jun 21, 2007
Despite your individual feelings concerning gangs and the races that form them, here is something to keep in mind:

If you were to randomly sample 100 whites, 100 blacks, and 100 white-hispanics, you would find that the group of blacks would have the highest percentage of criminal investigations, flowed by the hispanics.

If a lone individual runs into a group of younger black people or a group white-hispanic people one morning, afternoon or evening, the lone individual should proceed with caution more so than if he or she ran into a group of white people.

This is not a prejudiced behavior; this should be a normal reaction to official statistics reflecting objective human behavior.

This is not to imply that white people don’t commit crimes, this only reflects that based solely on race there is proportionally much more crime committed by minorities.

RACE DOES NOT CAUSE CRIME, but it is corrected with criminal behavior.

To ignore this fact because of some politically correct ideology could potentially put me and my family in danger.

Some will critique me by arguing that minorities are unfairly targeted by police; and although this is conceivably true, this point is not related to my argument. Being targeted for illegal behavior is different from actually doing said behavior.

Again, in the big picture, minorities (as a group) are more likely to commit street crimes while whites (as a group) are more likely to commit white collar crimes. And, coincidentally, street crimes are typically more of direct bodily threat to the general population as compared with other types of crime.

Yes, this is directly a human thing, but indirectly it is also a race thing. What is it qualitatively about race that increases or decreases the probably of committing criminal acts?

If race where not an important factor in criminal behavior; then, for example, whites, blacks, hispanics, and so on would have equal rates of criminal acts per 100,000 people.

Finally, I will leave you with some definitions. Minority refers to the group in society that has the most power, and in the US, this is the whites. In addition, the minority-majority dichotomy does not refer to sheer numbers; for example, before the end of apartheid in South Africa, the whites where the majority even though they were outnumbered by the blacks.

Hispanics are considered white by demographers; hence you have two categories: Caucasian-Hispanic and Caucasian-non-Hispanic.
Lastly, when we speak of races in terms of cohorts or groups as I have here, we label each race as white, black, and so forth.

When we talk about individual people, we label their race as Caucasian, African-American, Mexican-American, Cuban-American, and so forth.
Exaggerated - Deltona

Allen, TX

#30 Jun 21, 2007
Ok, thanks for the Race/Crime Statistics 101. Now can you please tell me how this relates to the subject matter in which we are all discussing here regarding Deltona, Fl? Funny how you don't make mention that there are statistically more white people on welfare then any other race. Does that factor into your race = crime stats? I don't doubt your statistics nor your intentions, but I just don't know how it relate to our little sleepy town current issue. Nice to know Michigan cares.
Joseph wrote:
Despite your individual feelings concerning gangs and the races that form them, here is something to keep in mind:
If you were to randomly sample 100 whites, 100 blacks, and 100 white-hispanics, you would find that the group of blacks would have the highest percentage of criminal investigations, flowed by the hispanics.
If a lone individual runs into a group of younger black people or a group white-hispanic people one morning, afternoon or evening, the lone individual should proceed with caution more so than if he or she ran into a group of white people.
This is not a prejudiced behavior; this should be a normal reaction to official statistics reflecting objective human behavior.
This is not to imply that white people don’t commit crimes, this only reflects that based solely on race there is proportionally much more crime committed by minorities.
RACE DOES NOT CAUSE CRIME, but it is corrected with criminal behavior.
To ignore this fact because of some politically correct ideology could potentially put me and my family in danger.
Some will critique me by arguing that minorities are unfairly targeted by police; and although this is conceivably true, this point is not related to my argument. Being targeted for illegal behavior is different from actually doing said behavior.
Again, in the big picture, minorities (as a group) are more likely to commit street crimes while whites (as a group) are more likely to commit white collar crimes. And, coincidentally, street crimes are typically more of direct bodily threat to the general population as compared with other types of crime.
Yes, this is directly a human thing, but indirectly it is also a race thing. What is it qualitatively about race that increases or decreases the probably of committing criminal acts?
If race where not an important factor in criminal behavior; then, for example, whites, blacks, hispanics, and so on would have equal rates of criminal acts per 100,000 people.
Finally, I will leave you with some definitions. Minority refers to the group in society that has the most power, and in the US, this is the whites. In addition, the minority-majority dichotomy does not refer to sheer numbers; for example, before the end of apartheid in South Africa, the whites where the majority even though they were outnumbered by the blacks.
Hispanics are considered white by demographers; hence you have two categories: Caucasian-Hispanic and Caucasian-non-Hispanic.
Lastly, when we speak of races in terms of cohorts or groups as I have here, we label each race as white, black, and so forth.
When we talk about individual people, we label their race as Caucasian, African-American, Mexican-American, Cuban-American, and so forth.
Joseph

Kalamazoo, MI

#31 Jun 21, 2007
As I read through the comments, many folks were centering on the race issue, and this is really not about race as a direct “cause” of criminal activity or gang related behavior.

Second the Statistics 101 comment was nasty. I was not being sarcastic in my comments. It seems to me that this is a problem that all of us are going to have to solve, and I believe that some academic knowledge will help all of us contribute constructive solutions and ideas.

I am a PhD candidate in sociology. I was born and raised in central Florida.

What does this have to do with Deltona? Everything. We are a global society, and the vast majority of us – especially youth – get our ideas from the mass media. Deltona is no exception; so the “things” that are happening in the rest of world will show up very quickly in “the small sleepy town of Deltona.”

You see some fancy 2007 sports in Deltona, do you not? Do you think advertising played a role in the purchase of the car?

This is really hard to admit to ourselves, but our preferences are really not our own; rather, they are presented to us by others.

Ideas and wants are global.

Kids are copy cats. We are too.

Control the range of peoples’ options and you will control peoples’ preferences.

Think about that for a while and consider what role the internet plays in this? That’s why some countries in Asia work so hard to control the internet.

I digress. Back on topic.

The real issue here is socio-economic status (SES). I did not mention this in my first posting, but when you consider SES, the race factor is diminished, but not eliminated.

Again, your point is based on the common statistical fallacy of comparing raw numbers to percentages. Since whites make up about 65% of our population, we would expect higher numbers of whites to receive government sponsored social services as compared with the number non-whites. This pattern is evident with criminal behavior, but it is much less pronounced in the latter. Why?

The middle class in American society is disappearing, which I predict, will make race less of a factor in the future.

There are a thousand different ideas on why kids join gangs. Two of my favorites are the family explanation and the material explanation. But that is not to say that I have the market cornered on the “right” one; it’s just that I like these two.

I believe that the marketing machine creates “wants” in these kids in which they have no way of obtaining; therefore, they turn to other, less socially approved ways. Moreover, kids in this situation constantly feel left out and have a tendency to “act out” in order to gain attention. For example, kids earn status in their peer groups by acting aggressive towards others, and when they receive your attention, this translates to respect as you acted scared and avoid them. This process is repeated and results in a separation between youth and adults.

Furthermore, lower SES kids generally do believe that an education will lead to the promises of a middle class life; and in addition, their peers do not reinforce this idea for various reasons.

What I just wrote here is about ideas, and they do not apply to one particular case or cases. Rather, I am referring to general patterns of behavior; believe me, it is much more complicated than I have presented it here.
Joseph

Kalamazoo, MI

#32 Jun 21, 2007
Furthermore, lower SES kids generally DO NOT believe that an education...

Sorry.

“Monkey Business”

Since: Mar 07

Coconut Creek

#33 Jun 21, 2007
The only way a government program can eliminate the ills of our society is if it sponsors a ruthlessly enforced eugenics policy.

Until you are ready to stomach that approach, the best you will obtain is a bandaid fix.
Better hurry Deltona

Orlando, FL

#34 Jun 21, 2007
Look at Lake Worth, West Palm, Broward and Miami-Dade. Even a bad example tells you something. Law enforcement has been clamoring for funding and the attention of our so-called "community leaders" and politicians for years.

Watch the evening news in So. Fla. It is the evening body count. The Orlando news is the same. Most of the bad news you see is gang related. Watch out Deltona before it is too late! Sheriff Johnson needs your help as well. It is a problem for the whole community to address, not just the police. Involve teachers, advertise, report, oh, and try to see if PARENTS may give a hoot as well? Good luck...
kjw

Haughton, LA

#35 Jun 21, 2007
This is so not new. Stewart Marchman Center tried to open up an outpatient and residential treatment campus in Deltona almost 7 years ago BECAUSE Deltona had the highest incidence of drug abuse -- which finances the drug trade that supports gang -- in Volusia county. Residents were outraged at the suggestion their community had a problem and pressured public officials to deny the zoning request. People working in law enforcement, the state's attorney and public defender's offices and working in drug treatment programs have known about the huge drug trade and related gang activity in Deltona for years. Because the drug trade goes on in houses in subdivisions and in parks instead of on street corners (unless you know where to look) it was easy for folks to just deny it was happenning.

As to the folks who commented here that this is happening because of being from Puerto Rico or wherever, that's crap. It's about being from anywhere where there are gangs in place. People moving here "for a better life for their kids" from any city --whether it's NYC, Houston, LA or points in between -- unknowingly bring the gang mentality with them in their mini vans. The kids don't leave it behind.

Go the panhandle of north Florida where there are literally no urban areas and you will find a huge drug trade, but not much in the way of gangs.(In Panama City, the gang problem is huge. I'm talking about the little nowhere places where you can see marijuana growing by the acre and where meth labs abound.) There is a big drug problem there as well, but you don't see gangs hanging out in Two Egg or Ponce Deleon or Graceville or Cottondale.

This is about urban problems reaching Deltona, the largest, most heavily populated city in Volusia county, not just a bedroom community of Orlando. This is not about skin color or ethnicity. Saying this is an ethnicity problem would be like saying all white folks are white supremacists or all black people are lazy or whatever else racism lie you want to tell.
getty-up

Sanford, FL

#36 Jun 22, 2007
I agree with you 100% with the comments you made in regards to parents. However, your ideas regarding the school system sound wonderful as written, but, I am not sure if you've ever had first hand experience with this. I taught for 9 years at an inner city school close to "crime" pine hills with a highly trained staff. We were given tons of staff development on how to deal with these things, and at the end of the day they went back into their homes and came back to school immulating all that was ingrained in them since birth. Yes, I could influence to an extent, but when it was all said and done, they did as their parents did and valued what they valued.

I've been part of the community of deltona for the past 30 years. It's a shame to see that the community I live in is turning into the area I once commuted to work to. I can see the source and it starts with the people moving into the community with a whole different set of values and priorities than many of us were brought up with. Not sure how to stop it, but, many members of this community have began to flee and will continue to do so until all that's left is the crime loving group of citizens we see growing in numbers here now.
Gilbert Guel Kissimmee wrote:
I hope the adult population of Deltona from all walks of life come together to help mentor the young people at risk of being drawn into the gangs.
The schools and homes in this area are the primary places where gang activity can be stopped, parents and teachers should keep open communications with their kids and students and not go straight for the strong arm lockdown tactics that we do as parents or see happen in our schools by administrators who lack the tools or knowledge to handle this sort of thing.... good luck to Delton and all its fine citizens....
Joseph

Kalamazoo, MI

#37 Jun 22, 2007
There is a terms for it, it is called "White Flight."

http://www.gnocdc.org/tertiary/white.html
Joseph

Kalamazoo, MI

#38 Jun 22, 2007
Here is another super interesting paper on white flight to private schools.

http://econ.ucsc.edu/~fairlie/papers/whitefli...

I get the sense that college educated, professional, middle class parents are tired of sending their children to schools with such high rates of disciplanary problems.

Also there is the religious angle.
Common Sense Please

Frisco, TX

#39 Jun 22, 2007
Mike - Deltona wrote:
People need to get involved within their community and if means calling the cops when you see a bunch of kids causing trouble then that's what we need to do. All too often citizens simply look away or assume someone else will handle the problem. Yet in the morning when damage is done they are first to talk the loudest. People, if see something then do something. At this point having dealt with too many parents who are trying to be friends to their kids, you're better off calling the cops.
The problem is the cops and the system don't do much about it.
janet

Eddyville, KY

#41 Jun 23, 2007
I would say, city officials have known about this problem for some time but, what are they doing about it??
caml

Pompano Beach, FL

#42 Jun 23, 2007
Ok...so we have spent more time and money on the FCAT. Maybe it would have been better spent on eradicating gangs in the homes and school system.
gtinvlvd

AOL

#43 Jun 24, 2007
You are right where are their parents. Everything starts at home. I am so tired of these parents not being involved with their kids. When the parents have to pay for all their kids mistakes then maybe they will wake up and take some responsibility. You are a parent so act like one. The key is being involved in what, when and where they are at all times and who are their friends. Parents get off your a-- and do something!

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