Special court rules against families who claim measles vaccine ...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

A special vaccine court ruled against parents with autistic children Thursday, saying that vaccines are not to blame for their children's neurological disorder.
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Vinny

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#1
Feb 12, 2009
 

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Shouldn't the headline be YET ANOTHER setback? Given that autism rates haven't declined despite the lack of mercury in recent vaccines...
nkn

Chicago, IL

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#2
Feb 12, 2009
 

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maybe the jury's not out on science yet? there's hope for us all
Ivory Dove

San Antonio, TX

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#3
Feb 12, 2009
 
Vinny wrote:
Shouldn't the headline be YET ANOTHER setback? Given that autism rates haven't declined despite the lack of mercury in recent vaccines...
And our pregnant daughters are told not
to eat fish "because the mercury could
harm the brain of your unborn baby"..
concerned

United States

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#4
Feb 12, 2009
 

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I have been saying all along the I do not believe the vaccine theory. My grandson never had an immunization until after he was diagnosed.
Tough Love

Piscataway, NJ

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#5
Feb 12, 2009
 

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JUDGE FOR SALE! JUDGE FOR SALE!

Another GREAT day for Big Pharma!

Fact: you can die from vaccinations.
Fact: giving vaccines at a young age can alter DNA
Fact: you can be born with pre-dispositions that can be exacerbated by vaccines
jordan

Chicago, IL

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#6
Feb 12, 2009
 

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*something* is causing autism...i only wish we knew what it was. i'm sure it's because we've crapped up the world over the decades. higher rates of childhood asthma...more autism than 30 years ago...it's pathetic.
Podd Talin

Virginia Beach, VA

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#7
Feb 12, 2009
 

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Autism is caused by improper pre-natal care and the mother's unhealthy lifestyle habits during pregnancy, not pharmaceutical companies.
USSA

Scranton, PA

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#8
Feb 12, 2009
 

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BS, provide data to back up your "facts."
Tough Love wrote:
JUDGE FOR SALE! JUDGE FOR SALE!
Another GREAT day for Big Pharma!
Fact: you can die from vaccinations.
Fact: giving vaccines at a young age can alter DNA
Fact: you can be born with pre-dispositions that can be exacerbated by vaccines
RRT

Lombard, IL

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#9
Feb 12, 2009
 

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It would be interesting to know if the "science" was funded by the pharma companies. So often they design and conduct the experiments they cite. The ole fox guarding the hen house probably applies...
Hello

Chicago, IL

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#10
Feb 12, 2009
 

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Does this mean Jenny McCarthy will have to get a new gig.
whatever

Normal, IL

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#11
Feb 12, 2009
 

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Wouldn't all children have autism if they received the vaccination?

Since: Nov 07

Lisle, IL

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#12
Feb 12, 2009
 

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At least the judges sided with proven science instead of gut feelings and conspiracy theories. The connection between vaccines and autism has been disproven by people outside Big Pharma.
whatever

Normal, IL

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#13
Feb 12, 2009
 

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Tough Love wrote:
JUDGE FOR SALE! JUDGE FOR SALE!
Another GREAT day for Big Pharma!
Fact: you can die from vaccinations.
Fact: giving vaccines at a young age can alter DNA
Fact: you can be born with pre-dispositions that can be exacerbated by vaccines
You sound crazy. You can die from not having vaccinations. Especially with all of the illegals from other countries who don't get vaccinated or are carriers of TB. I believe that there is some genetic predisposition at times when I see these parents of autistic children.
Rochelle-Illinoi s

Chesterfield, MO

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#14
Feb 12, 2009
 

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There is something going on. My son who is now 11 years old was fine, speech wise, behavior, etc, after his 12-14 mo. shots he developed a phonological speech disorder and has been disagnosed as having Aspergers Syndrome which is a highly functioning autistic child. My prenatal care was excellent, I followed a special carb controlled diet and nursed him for a year. Two other children, now aged 21 and 25 never developed anything after their shots, and they all have the same mother and father.
Josie

Roseland, NJ

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#15
Feb 12, 2009
 

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If people keep listening to Jenny, we're going to have serious outbreaks in illnesses.

Level 1

Since: Jan 07

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#16
Feb 12, 2009
 

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Big Pharma, Big excuses. Wakefield's study was funded by attorneys, and was debunked. At least any other study conducted by who ever is out in the open and follows profesional protocols, unlike Wakefield who started this whole mess to begin with, caused children in his study much pain and to be hospitalized for lumbar punctures gone wrong.....

The science is not there. In order to prove a cause beyond a reasonable doubt, you need to go beyond emotions to prove that cause. The interesting thing is, these courts didn't actually need science to rule on the case which the outcome could had gone either way.

*This is not a great day for the Big Pharma. Get some real science backing it up, there is none.
* very few people actually die from vaccines, but deaths is not part of these court cases anyway.
* one fact is the death rate due to measles in the UK
* vaccines can alter DNA? I've heard many rumors and scare tactics, this one may be the best one yet
* you CAN be born with pre-dispositions, which could be effected by vaccines, antibiotics or over the counter anything, plus food. That is genetic and then that would be the cause.

One can only hope Jenny McCarthy get's a new job, but I'm guessing she's about to throw a big media fit, cry it was a 'fixed' hearing and the judges were paid by the Big Bad Pharma than to accept those judges did their duty properly.

People have got to face that if the science it not there, it's just not there.
FACT:(and the best fact of all) As of today, not one person knows the causes for autism.
Jennifer B

Aurora, IL

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#17
Feb 12, 2009
 

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I am an attorney, and the mother of two children ~ both vaccinated ~ one of whom has autism.

I have actually slogged through these opinions, reading over 500 pages of decision. These are well-written, well-thought out judical opinions. The parents had every opportunity to present their cases, and they failed. The evidence was overwhelmingly against them.

For those who want to cry 'foul'over this, because of a general disregard for an objective inquiry into this highly emotional topic, sit down and digest the whole opinion. Then, and only then, come back to one of these boards and explain why the judges are either wrong on the facts or the law. If you can't, then you are on the wrong side of reason.

Hanging in my office is a quote from John Adams, c. 1770. This quote was taken from his closing argument when he successfully defended the British soldiers at the center of the Boston Massacre. Got it? One of our Founding Fathers defended British soldiers who shot and killed colonialsts. Not because he was 'bought off'. But because the EVIDENCE showed that the soldiers acted lawfully in self-defense against a mob attack. Here's what Mr. Adams said:

"Facts are stubborn things, and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictums of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

I for one am glad to see the triumph of sound judicial reasoning over pseudoscience and bad pulic policy. And that it happened on Honest Abe's 200th seems perfectly fitting.
Jennifer B

Aurora, IL

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#18
Feb 12, 2009
 
P.S. Regarding Ms. McCarthy (I don't call her 'Jenny' because that's my name...).

She has a disabled son with, among other things, a seizure disorder. This will be a long, hard road for her. As a human being, I wish her and her family well.

I also believe, equally strongly, that her expertise must be limited solely to her own experience. If all she says is "this is what happened to me", then leave her be.

But, when (as she's repeatedly done) she starts to argue that her OPINION is a FACT, then she becomes the intellectual equivalent of General George Custer, waiting for all of the scientists of the world to run over her.
Vasago

Dallas, TX

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#19
Feb 12, 2009
 
whatever wrote:
Wouldn't all children have autism if they received the vaccination?
If you're looking for a real link, I think you have it backward. How many children have autism who DID NOT get vaccinated.

My son has autism. Like 99% of children like him, his speech and other developmental regressions began after vaccinations, between the ages of 18 and 24 months of age.

His neurologist does not think Thimerasol is a cause. Vaccines 40 years ago had far worse additives.

The one thing he emphasizes is that we DO NOT KNOW if vaccines do/don't cause autism. Not only is he a neurologist but he's also a researcher. He makes it clear that the research is not even close to complete.

He said that we will know the answer within 20 years as our knowledge of genetics improves. He is certain that, for certain children, there is a genetic disposition for autism that is triggered. The question is WHAT is the trigger(s).

Based on the current evidence, it's reasonable to believe that one of the possible triggers is a shock to a baby's immune system that happens after a vaccination.

Do I believe that my son would be perfectly fine had he not been vaccinated? I actually doubt it. Maybe a bad case of the flu could also be a trigger. The point is that we DON'T KNOW!! The point is that we need to understand the genetics and find out if autism can be avoided.

It is remarkable to me that the Dept. of HHS would respond to this special court's ruling today with "hopefully parents will now realize vaccines don't cause autism". I actually read the ruling.....there's a big difference between a lack of evidence showing causation (and fault) and some kind of definitive proof that there IS no link. The latter is what HHS is trying to peddle and it should make you question their motivations.

For you skeptics, let me ask you to do a simple mental exercise. What agencies/companies/people have an interest in a finding that vaccines are a trigger for autism?

Every state in the union FORCES parents to have their children vaccinated. Are those states really interested in finding out that vaccines, as administered, resulted in such harm?

What about the countless family doctors who've administered millions of vaccines? Especially those who've kicked out patients who question the vaccine schedule (my experience)?

What about the massive pharmaceutical companies who produce and profit from all these vaccines?

Now think about who's livelihood would NOT be devastated by finding a link. That list includes thousands of parents, most of whom have no political clout or major financial resources. It's a much shorter list than the other one, isn't it? It's also a list with a heck of a lot less power and influence.

Think.
Vasago

Dallas, TX

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#20
Feb 12, 2009
 
Jennifer B wrote:
P.S. Regarding Ms. McCarthy (I don't call her 'Jenny' because that's my name...).
She has a disabled son with, among other things, a seizure disorder. This will be a long, hard road for her. As a human being, I wish her and her family well.
I also believe, equally strongly, that her expertise must be limited solely to her own experience. If all she says is "this is what happened to me", then leave her be.
But, when (as she's repeatedly done) she starts to argue that her OPINION is a FACT, then she becomes the intellectual equivalent of General George Custer, waiting for all of the scientists of the world to run over her.
I think of her as just an advocate. She wants the research done and it's not.

I have a son with autism and I find her annoying. I've listened to her story and I don't think her son even HAS autism. She describes his major seizures as a baby and needing resucitation. Now he's basically fine....communication and developing normally.

That sounds like someone with a seizure disorder, not autism.

By the way, when she tells her story, she makes it sound like her son had autism and is now cured. There is no such thing. There is no cure, only ongoing treatment.

Autism is a spectrum disorder with some functioning very high and others very low. Through intense therapy, you can move someone a small way up the spectrum, but that's it.

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