'The flip' of school times really is ...

'The flip' of school times really is a moneysaver, audit finds

There are 164 comments on the Orlando Sentinel story from Apr 27, 2009, titled 'The flip' of school times really is a moneysaver, audit finds. In it, Orlando Sentinel reports that:

It created angry parents, sleepy preteens and a mad dash by high-school students to get from sports to jobs in the afternoons.

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Since: Oct 08

Newport, NH

#1 Apr 28, 2009
I find it funny people are complaining. I've got 2 children, one in elementary school and one in high school. My high schooler doesn't have classes until almost 9:30, she's a senior so doesn't have to go in, until then and the sleep is MUCH needed for teens.

Our son, just as our daughter did, starts school at 7:40, he's home by 2:30.

As a childcare provider as well, I don't see any of these schedules being a "logistic" nightmare for childcare....I'm open at 6:30 am, and I have kids who come here and get on the bus.

If it's saving money, it's worth it.

“Vegas Baby!!!”

Since: Dec 06

Orlando, FL

#2 Apr 28, 2009
The school board voted to have this independent consultant come in and tell them what is the best option for starting times and now it seems as though the information is ALREADY falling upoon deaf ears.

Why not keep the flip and keep small schools. The costs about wash one another out. God forbid a school board member actually do something that makes sense.

Vicky Bell says it is all about safety? It should be about ethics as she has done nothing but lie and stop on others to push her own agenda. She has stood in front of parent groups and LIED, LIED, LIED until she had to come up for air. In the meantime, she tramples on OCPS employees who do not give her the data that SHE wants to see (I guess she needs to skew her own data).
cbb

Carrollton, TX

#3 Apr 28, 2009
Here's another money saving idea.. Why don't they stop bussing kids in from half way across the city and forcing everyone to be "diverse"?
Welcome to the Machine

Winter Garden, FL

#4 Apr 28, 2009
The argument that teens need more sleep is irrelevant... they can go to bed before 2 AM.

Look at Lake County for help here: they preposition some of the buses at some of the schools, rather than driving back to the bus barn twice a day. Saves tons of money. Some people call this common sense.
Better Schools

Deltona, FL

#5 Apr 28, 2009
Maybe the outrage from this waste will entice competent people to run for school board. This is what you get when schools are run by amateurs who win low-turnout elections on single issues.
zak

Orlando, FL

#6 Apr 28, 2009
You paid with our tax money for a review on what is best to save money. So now you will swept that info under the table. What a waste of money again. Do what is RIGHT for the tax payers. We all had to adjust our life styles this past year to make ends meet.
Skip the Flip

Howey In The Hills, FL

#7 Apr 28, 2009
Take into account the dropout rate due to kids in high school opting out to work and help their family financially. Did the audit include collateral the flip has caused--less students taking rigorous classes, dropout rate, and high school students leaving school for doctor's appointments. Look at these numbers and report back.
IBet

Indialantic, FL

#8 Apr 28, 2009
Our school is losing its librarian and its health aide so that these rich suburbanites can spend more money on bussing.
just a comment

Southwest Brevard Cnty, FL

#9 Apr 28, 2009
If it saves money then leave it alone, if you don't want to listen to the private consultant then next time don't pay them big bucks to come in.

If safty is the real concern then parents get out there and wait with your kids, dress them in light color cloting and reflectors.....

In the scope of life this is a simple savings, lets keep teachers, and staff.......
Get A Clue

Wilmington, DE

#10 Apr 28, 2009
Education start times should be based on the most effective balance between students' internal clocks and budget realities.
That's exactly why the flip is best for everyone.
Getting an education does not come in a distant 2nd or 3rd to after-school jobs, sports practice or mom's 'convenience.'
redgator

Windermere, FL

#11 Apr 28, 2009
I'm still wondering how it saves money. Don't you take the same amount of kids to the same schools, just at different times?
Why save money

United States

#12 Apr 28, 2009
Two very telling statements stand out. Both false and ridiculous. Both Vicki Bell whose name has become synonymous with those things.

1) "I haven't changed my mind," said Bell, who heads a task force that is trying to root more savings out of the Transportation Department. The $6,000 audit was ordered at her group's request.
OF COURSE Bell has not changed her mind. She has done everything to hide the FLIP away in a closet, away from the constituents that voted her into office on one issue and one issue alone. Nice to know our elected officials are doing an unethical and non-professional job.

2) "For me, it's always been about safety," said Bell, adding that young children should not be standing at dark bus stops in the morning.- FALSE. It is not about safety. Federal advice states that PARENTS (or a guardian one would suppose) need to WALK THEIR CHILDREN TO THE BUS STOP and WAIT. Now, every parent cannot do this I am sure (although at 7:30 it is a lot easier than later on in the morning when they work) but the responsiblity can be shared by Bus Stop Parents. So safety would never be compromised if PARENTS did what they were supposed to. But since Bell panders, why ask for parent reponsiblity?

Bell is a huge issue on this board. In the opinion of some, her actions have been at best unethical, at worst malicious.
Why save money

United States

#13 Apr 28, 2009
redgator wrote:
I'm still wondering how it saves money. Don't you take the same amount of kids to the same schools, just at different times?
Less buses, less bus drivers, more efficient routes, eventual gas savings. Also, with less buses and drivers, less upkeep, mechanical, cleaning, insurance, etc.
TigerTchr

Kissimmee, FL

#14 Apr 28, 2009
Skip the Flip wrote:
Take into account the dropout rate due to kids in high school opting out to work and help their family financially. Did the audit include collateral the flip has caused--less students taking rigorous classes, dropout rate, and high school students leaving school for doctor's appointments. Look at these numbers and report back.
I haven't noticed a surge in the dropout rate at the high school where I teach. What I have noticed is a first period class full of students who are alert and ready to learn, rather than a room sparsely populated with half-asleep zombies who shuffle in over the course of an hour, if they make it to first period at all. And this is a required course for graduation, I might add.

The number of students taking advanced courses hasn't changed, either. Schedules were set last spring; there wasn't a huge rush to drop AP because the kids were catching the bus later. Much of the noise you heard about the flip came from parents of athletes concerned about practice schedules. Given the number of Orange County schools going to the state playoffs in all sports, the flip didn't seem to have impacted how well the athletes play.

If the school board were truly responsible, they would consider the cost savings ($3.4 million could save a few of the neighborhood elementary schools currently on the chopping block) and also see whether test scores rise at the high schools because the students are actually awake enough all day to pay attention. If scores rise and they don't bother to revisit the flip, then their priorities are with mollifying noisy (and usually affluent) parents, not enhancing achievement for ALL students in the system.
Just Thinking

Winter Garden, FL

#15 Apr 28, 2009
Funny thing. Twenty years ago when I went to school if you lived less than two miles from school, you got no ride. You walked, there were bike racks for those that had bikes or your parents could cough up a couple of dollars a month for a heavily discounted student pass to ride the city buses. It snowed about three months of most school years and all schools started at 7:45 AM and let out at 3:40 PM. Where school buses ran, students from elementary, middle and high schools all rode the same bus. The bus route picked them all up, and made three stops to drop them off at school. The stop at the middle school I attended was about 600 feet from the stop at the high school I subsequently attended. THAT was common sense. This business of parents telling schools what times it is convenient for their darling children to attend classes seems to me to be a seriously flawed and expensive case of the tail wagging the dog. Oh yeah the safety of the kids. The older kids looked out for the younger kids at the bus stops both before and after school. Parents even got off their lazy butts and provided supervision. There is a concept - parental responsibility. I would love to see it reborn.
dlin34

Daytona Beach, FL

#16 Apr 28, 2009
I want to know how much the Independent Transportation Consultant who performed the study charged Orange County Public Schools.
dlin34

Daytona Beach, FL

#17 Apr 28, 2009
Just Thinking wrote:
Funny thing. Twenty years ago when I went to school if you lived less than two miles from school, you got no ride. You walked, there were bike racks for those that had bikes or your parents could cough up a couple of dollars a month for a heavily discounted student pass to ride the city buses. It snowed about three months of most school years and all schools started at 7:45 AM and let out at 3:40 PM. Where school buses ran, students from elementary, middle and high schools all rode the same bus. The bus route picked them all up, and made three stops to drop them off at school. The stop at the middle school I attended was about 600 feet from the stop at the high school I subsequently attended. THAT was common sense. This business of parents telling schools what times it is convenient for their darling children to attend classes seems to me to be a seriously flawed and expensive case of the tail wagging the dog. Oh yeah the safety of the kids. The older kids looked out for the younger kids at the bus stops both before and after school. Parents even got off their lazy butts and provided supervision. There is a concept - parental responsibility. I would love to see it reborn.
I totally agree. Their children are already receiving a free education from under-paid, under-appreciated professionals, how dare they demand pick up and drop off times. Parents shut up!
Get A Clue

Wilmington, DE

#18 Apr 28, 2009
Skip the Flip wrote:
Take into account the dropout rate due to kids in high school opting out to work and help their family financially.

Skip, we're not running an entire education system based on the convenience of your after-school job because your overbreeding mom is too stupid to close her legs. At least your mom could start charging and write off birth control and abortions as employment expenses.
MY Opinion

Eddyville, KY

#19 Apr 28, 2009
Now that the cry baby parents have got their way and the school start time is back to the old. Do not cry when your childs sport get cut because of no money. It might not been so hard to get to work after a practice or game now they can work more hours since the school board will have to cut sports. Job well done winers.
Why save money

United States

#20 Apr 28, 2009
dlin34 wrote:
I want to know how much the Independent Transportation Consultant who performed the study charged Orange County Public Schools.
Read the article since it is in the article. 6,000. As assigned by VICKI BELL who now refuses to use the information.
She is a danger.

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