Where can we get ethanol-free gas?

Where can we get ethanol-free gas?

There are 186 comments on the Orlando Sentinel story from Jun 14, 2008, titled Where can we get ethanol-free gas?. In it, Orlando Sentinel reports that:

Question: Thanks to your newspaper I learned that all Orlando filling stations are using 10 percent ethanol in the gas they are selling, and that can decrease gas mileage.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Orlando Sentinel.

myself

Belleville, MI

#29 Jul 7, 2008
Paul bunyun... just look at this quote from wiki
"When an internal combustion engine is under high load (such as when using wide-open throttle), the output of the oxygen sensor is ignored, and the engine automatically enriches the mixture to protect the engine. Any changes in the sensor output will be ignored in this state, as are changes from the air flow meter, which might otherwise lower engine performance due to the mixture being too rich or too lean, and increase the risk of engine damage due to detonation if the mixture is too lean."

That means in short.. with E10, you get a leaner mixture then planned in open loop operation due to the oxygenation properties of alcohol. This affects fuel economy at an unpredictable rate.

see link and then after you realize what I am talking about.. keep SHHH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor
myself

Belleville, MI

#30 Jul 7, 2008
and no, millions of people are not wrong, just you. Everyone else realizes that E10 affects fuel economy far more than the very small % that you claim is only mathematically possible.
MC Owner

United States

#31 Jul 7, 2008
I have noticed since I was forced to start using E10, my engine light comes on. I had been testing with every other tank when Shell was still using 100% and after a short time with the refill from Shell - my engine light would go off. Then refill with E10 - light would come on after a bit. Shell now sells the E10.
Jsomething

United States

#32 Jul 7, 2008
The only issue with the wiki quote is that it's based on WOT or high load usage which at most times people aren't using over 60% of there engine load. I drive a H2 and I notice the drop in MPG's compared to the E10 blend but I didn't buy it for it's economy. The other issue here in the US is that corn ethanol has a lower (I'll use energy output) compared to sugar ethanol which is used in Brazil. There are actually several other ethanol alternatives our country is ignoring to use. Even with the big hydrogen kick lately, a hydrogen converted gas vehicle loses over half of it's horsepower.
6 actual

United States

#34 Jul 8, 2008
Good grief, the question was where can you get gas without ethanol.
In Florida, thanks to the morons who run the legislature, you can't.
roll tide

Cumming, GA

#35 Jul 8, 2008
I just heard a great energy plan by T. Boone Pickens. Use natural gas to fuel cars. America has major natural gas deposits. And cars already exist now that run on it. I'm not sure what country uses them but there are over 8 million cars that use it. Check out tboonepickens.com

Since: Jun 08

Orlando, FL

#36 Jul 8, 2008
Paul Bunyan wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, explain the 37 to 40 mpg that I regularly get with my Sentra. Do you think I could get 50 or 60 mpg with straight gas? You are running on theory and hearsay. I am working from 30 plus years of experience AND the immutable Laws of Physics. Of course, those laws may be different in your universe (and, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY).
You are missing the point. No one is arguing your math. Given your variables your equation is spot on. There ARE variables you are not accounting for. I drive a computer controlled, fuel injected car, my mileage goes down 11 - 13% across the board. It would go down more, if I drove an older, carbureted vehicle. I am not doubting your milage claims for your vehicle. Everyone I know, that pays attention to their gas mileage has noticed drop using the 10% ethanol. And, the drop is more than 5%

You could say correctly, that the BTU's available in a laboratory setting, are only able to reduce by 5%. Nothing wrong with your math, but the logic applying it is flawed.

Since: Jun 08

Orlando, FL

#37 Jul 8, 2008
Forgot something. If you get 37 to 40 on 10% ethanol, then you should get appx 41.5 to 45mpg on regular gas. That may be fine with you. Myself, I am not pleased about paying more, for less. It doesn't even reduce emissions, if you burn more, which we do. The "greenies" snookered us on this one.

Since: Jun 08

Orlando, FL

#40 Jul 8, 2008
Paul Bunyan wrote:
<quoted text>
I DO NOT pay more for less. Gasahol (E10) runs 10 to 15 cents a gallon LESS than regular unleaded in Iowa. Before you say "Impossible", note that ethanol fuels get a large tax break. We make it up on income from corn products sold to other state's residents. Much the way Florida residents pay no income tax, letting tourists pay their tax obligation for them.
I didn't say you. I am now. Avg price for Unleaded Premium is 4.19 around here. Lets call it 3.99 I'll GIVE you twenty cents on it. At that rate, The performance has dropped by 10 to 13 percent. I am equating performance with mileage obtained. Back to the math, you save at the most 15 cents/gal, by your own figures. National average for regular unleaded is four dollars per gallon.

Getting me yet ? Let me break it down farther :

Unless you are saving 10% on the cost, then, getting 10% less performance does in fact equate to paying more for less.

Corn ethanol, bad idea, period.

Your gas prices would need to be awful low, to make it work out.

Since: Jun 08

Orlando, FL

#41 Jul 8, 2008
Even if we go back to your original arguement of 5% with the BTU's..... gasoline would have to have an regular price of 3 dollars or cheaper, for the 15 cents to work out. Kudos to IA for at least giving you the choice. It is nearing being mandatory here, and prices keep going higher, so, we ARE paying more for less. And, unless you have super cheap gasoline in Iowa, so are you.

Since: Jun 08

Orlando, FL

#42 Jul 8, 2008
Paul Bunyan wrote:
<quoted text>
There are cities and counties in the US that use LNG or LPG in their fleet vehicles, and have for years. Also, have you ever seen a fork lift that did NOT run on LPG? This fuel burns so clean that engines will run far longer with far less maintenance than gasoline engines. The oil drained from a pickup running on LNG or LPG will look as clean as new, even after 10,000 or 15,000 miles. It will not gel in the winter like diesel, nor does it absorb moisture like gasoline (kind of hard to absorb moisture through that thick tank). Main drawbacks are weight of the fuel tank and one H*E*L*L of a bang if something does go wrong. It absolutely should be included on the list of replacement fuels for gasoline.
Paul, we agree on something. LP is a great idea for fleet vehicle applications.
Aimee

Orlando, FL

#44 Jul 15, 2008
Paul Bunyan wrote:
<quoted text>
I DO NOT pay more for less. Gasahol (E10) runs 10 to 15 cents a gallon LESS than regular unleaded in Iowa. Before you say "Impossible", note that ethanol fuels get a large tax break. We make it up on income from corn products sold to other state's residents. Much the way Florida residents pay no income tax, letting tourists pay their tax obligation for them.
LMAO. We may not have income tax, but the tourists aren't the only ones who pay our taxes. Since I don't drive out of state to make my purchases, I pay the same taxes as the tourists. Not to mention but there is a health price gouging that goes on down here during tourist season, an tourists aren't the only ones who pay.
Regardless of what your math proves, I've noticed a marked difference in milage and performance since using Ethanol. I even did a non-scientific experiment by running 2 takes of non ethanol then 2 of E10 until Florida forced E10 on us. There is a major difference.
Also, you may think that its all fine and dandy to get that extra money for your corn, but those of us who are paying $4.87 for a box of cereal and $1.99 for a dozen eggs aren't laughing. Whomever decided to alleviate our transportation crisis by crossing into out food supply was sadly misinformed. We don't have to drive, but we have to eat.
People who are living paycheck to paycheck are the ones who will suffer hardest. We work, therefore we aren't eligible for any type of assistance. We often drive the older cars that won't run on Ethanol. I've got 3 jobs now and lunch break is over, so no more from me. I just hope that people open their eyes before America's recession swallows this country.
And P.S. my grandparents were farmers, so I know how the extra money helps, but it seems like now the economic hardship is just shifting from farmers to others. Problem NOT solved.

“Take a deep breath...”

Since: May 08

Orlando, FL

#45 Jul 15, 2008
OK. There's been plenty of talk about how ethanol-free gas gets better mileage than E10 gas. But last night I was reading (in Road and Track, I think) that a new engine would get better mileage with ethanol gas than ethanol-free gas. In fact, they said E85 would get something like 25% better than ethanol-free gas. Are they talking about 85% ethanol?! Can someone explain that to me?

“Take a deep breath...”

Since: May 08

Orlando, FL

#46 Jul 15, 2008
Correction/addition to my last post:

The Saab 9-X Biohybrid concept car claims to get 170 bhp with regular gas and 200 bhp with E85. I assume this also translates to an improvement in mileage.

So, I'm just curious, but could someone explain the technical changes to go from current engines that perform poorly with ethanol to new engines that perform better? Is the change minor enough that we could make it to our current engines?
Dorothy

Crestview, FL

#47 Jul 15, 2008
All I want to know is WHERE can I buy ethenol free gasoline in the FL.GA,AL tri-state area? My old Honda vaporlocks when it's hot...doesn't want to run till I can get the hot gasoline out of the carb. I gotta pump the hell out of it to keep it running. [email protected]
Dorothy
Leaningpine

Spring Hill, FL

#48 Jul 15, 2008
There are several lawsuits pending because of the fact that ethanol laced fuel destroys both fiberglass and plastic fuel tanks in boats, as well as fuel lines and fuel pump diaphragms. I understand the same is true for aircraft as well. Another bright idea bites the dust, and as usual, the consumer is getting screwed.
MrObvious

United States

#49 Jul 15, 2008
Paul Bunyan wrote:
OK. Y'all won me over. From now on, I will not buy any gas with ethanol in it. That way, every cent I spend on gas goes to Big Oil and their foreign suppliers. American farmers can go to hell. I will also never buy another American made product. If it doesn't come from China, it's not for me. What do I care if y'all lose your jobs? I'm retired.
I don't know how to respond other to point out that "Big Oil" is a total myth. The major oil companies, like Exxon, are publically traded on the stockmarket and thus, shareholder owned. Many retirement pension plans are heavily invested in oil stocks. Perhaps even your retirement check is partially generated from oil stock, in essence, making you part of "Big Oil". The term "Big Oil" is only used to stimulate an emotional response to the "big bad boogyman" for political reasons.
MrObvious

United States

#50 Jul 15, 2008
Oh, and as far as American farmers can "go to hell", that is ridiculous. We will buy their corn...TO EAT! We can go back to making FOOD and Animal Feed from Corn! Of course, the farmers love the huge demand and the overinflated prices, but, we really need to stop burning our food.
florida

Largo, FL

#51 Jul 18, 2008
Paul Bunyan wrote:
One more time. Gasahol, or E10, is 10 percent ethanol. Ethanol has roughly one-half the BTU content of gasoline. I'll make it easy for you. Say a gallon of gas has 100 BTUs, and a gallon of ethanol has 50 BTUs. Pour out 10 percent of the gas, and replace that with ethanol. Ninety BTUs plus 5 BTUs equals 95 BTUs. It is chemically and thermally IMPOSSIBLE to lose more than 5 percent gas mileage. You will lose around 40 per cent using E85, but that probably isn't even available (yet) in Florida. Flex fuel cars can run on E85, but NEVER put it in a regular vehicle. Your car's computer must be programed to use E85. Your mileage, of course, may vary depending on whether the earth is round or flat where you live (that was an attempt at humor, however bad, in case you missed it).
Mr. Bunyan, I don't want to upset you. I simply want to post my 2 cents worth about the ethanol "watered down" gasoline. I too get far less MPG in both of my cars. You can post and state all of the facts and figures your little heart desires but truth is....everyone is getting far less MPG than your data seems to support. You can chew on this a while....I just completed a long road trip in an Expedition that was getting 20+ MPG on the highway. After well over 3000 miles the MPG dropped to 16.1. I lnow this doesn't fit your view on how this whole thing is supposed to work, but facts is facts. You can go on "dissing" everyone that is getting poor MPG with gas laced with ethanol but it doesn't change the FACTS !!! Do you work for an oil company or worse yet....the government ????
ccwinfree

Polk City, FL

#53 Jul 24, 2008
SO, you can't get gas without ethanol in it????

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