Winter Park leaders question rail cos...

Winter Park leaders question rail costs -- Local Authority, Ora...

There are 106 comments on the Orlando Sentinel story from Jun 4, 2008, titled Winter Park leaders question rail costs -- Local Authority, Ora.... In it, Orlando Sentinel reports that:

The commuter-rail question in Winter Park has gone from "Should we do it?" to "How do we pay for it?" one of the city's new commissioners said Wednesday.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Orlando Sentinel.

Disappointed X 10

Winter Haven, FL

#82 Jun 7, 2008
New Day wrote:
<quoted text>
To give Guetzloe credit for any WP elections is a joke, but it sure seems easier for some than looking in the mirror.
Again, it's truly disappointing your bitter resentment over 1WP.
When Guetzloe gets involved, the sewer's the limit. His involvement didn't help, nor did any of the whisper campaigns and large scale email smears from sweet bored WP housewives who found their cause, and ethics be damned in that pursuit. There's a lot of disappointment, to be sure. You don't have the market cornered on that. Would it help if we all shut up about the well documented actions of certain campaigns and indefatigable campaign backers whose hypocrisy meters remain on the very back shelf in a dusty abandoned repair shop? These folks remain at the ready to destroy anybody they get a whiff of disagreement from. It's scary. And disappointing.
Overit

Lake Mary, FL

#83 Jun 7, 2008
Guetzloe is to politics what George Crossley was to first, religion and now civil rights. Both see themselves as good deed doers which, to be fair, they each have been on occasion. Each has however, surrounded themselves with hooligans, neer-do-wells and adjunct provacatuers who make them look foolish. For this reason, even though I sometimes agree with Doug, I never support him. Too kinky for me!
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#84 Jun 7, 2008
Overit wrote:
Guetzloe is to politics what George Crossley was to first, religion and now civil rights. Both see themselves as good deed doers which, to be fair, they each have been on occasion. Each has however, surrounded themselves with hooligans, neer-do-wells and adjunct provacatuers who make them look foolish. For this reason, even though I sometimes agree with Doug, I never support him. Too kinky for me!
Guetzloe is a shameless. He will anything for money and he does nothing unless he gets money. The poop mailer, the Mallen letter, the last minute yellow sheet are for contradictory candidates.
Overit

Lake Mary, FL

#85 Jun 7, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
<quoted text>Guetzloe is a shameless. He will anything for money and he does nothing unless he gets money. The poop mailer, the Mallen letter, the last minute yellow sheet are for contradictory candidates.
My interest in this thread is relative to CFCR as it affects the proposed Northern route. Granted, WP has recently had it's share of political unrest but I live in Deltona, "that isn't a knife mate....this is a knife!"
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#86 Jun 7, 2008
Overit wrote:
<quoted text>My interest in this thread is relative to CFCR as it affects the proposed Northern route. Granted, WP has recently had it's share of political unrest but I live in Deltona, "that isn't a knife mate....this is a knife!"
I think Orange should mimic Volusia and have everyone taxed for commuter rail. Personally, commuter rail is a boondoggle. But, we can't stop D.C. and Tally when it comes to $. And if it comes through your town, it might as well stop. But, I am not ardent rail supporter and I think WP is doing hte right thing and demanding cost certainty.(That means I support the WP City Commission. Good job. Do I need to sign a blood oath?)
New Day

Orlando, FL

#87 Jun 7, 2008
To Kick the Can:

You're right and I apologize for beginning my blogs with attacks on Eckbert and Metcalf. I don't necessarily like them, but it isn't helpful to criticize them at this point. Remember, however, they were ultimately responsible for the liberal pro-rail language in our contract: expensive opt out, no cap on O&M, no seat at the table, no effort to re-negotiate double taxation (only city paying for our stop, except Maitland). It's unproductive, you're right. I'll refrain from that.

I'm not a member of OneWP although I supported their efforts - funny how everyone jumps to that conclusion for anyone criticizing E&M. I feel they tried to stick to the issues instead of calling people names (handlers, minions, Zealots) and smearing reputations like anonymous Bluedog did to Trismen, Dillaha, Strong, Colado, etc. Please don't blame them for what I've blogged - they aren't responsible for my blogs.

Lastly, referring to "smear campaigns by bored sweet housewives" was offensive and sexist. Certainly everyone has an equal voice here.
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#88 Jun 7, 2008
New Day wrote:
To Kick the Can:
You're right and I apologize for beginning my blogs with attacks on Eckbert and Metcalf. I don't necessarily like them, but it isn't helpful to criticize them at this point. Remember, however, they were ultimately responsible for the liberal pro-rail language in our contract: expensive opt out, no cap on O&M, no seat at the table, no effort to re-negotiate double taxation (only city paying for our stop, except Maitland). It's unproductive, you're right. I'll refrain from that.
I'm not a member of OneWP although I supported their efforts - funny how everyone jumps to that conclusion for anyone criticizing E&M. I feel they tried to stick to the issues instead of calling people names (handlers, minions, Zealots) and smearing reputations like anonymous Bluedog did to Trismen, Dillaha, Strong, Colado, etc. Please don't blame them for what I've blogged - they aren't responsible for my blogs.
Lastly, referring to "smear campaigns by bored sweet housewives" was offensive and sexist. Certainly everyone has an equal voice here.
Not me who said that about housewives. The only reason we're paying for our station is Seminole, Osceola and Volusia are taxing countywide. Orange couldn't/can't/won't so Maitland and WP are left to pay. I'm glad they're reviewing it.
Susan Langford

AOL

#89 Jun 7, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
<quoted text>Guetzloe is a shameless. He will anything for money and he does nothing unless he gets money. The poop mailer, the Mallen letter, the last minute yellow sheet are for contradictory candidates.
These attacks are really made by stupid, uninformed individuals.
Doug Guetzloe has led Ax the Tax for decades and has never taken a dime from it.
You one or two detractors certainly climbed out of the same cesspool.
Doug is a honest leader and one whose opinion has been sought by many. So what if he makes his money as a consultant. From the list of clients, apparently most folks think he does good work.
He certainly does good work for taxpayers.
New Day

Orlando, FL

#90 Jun 7, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
<quoted text> Not me who said that about housewives. The only reason we're paying for our station is Seminole, Osceola and Volusia are taxing countywide. Orange couldn't/can't/won't so Maitland and WP are left to pay. I'm glad they're reviewing it.
I give up. You're a jerk and seem to be an opportunist too. Where were you when the citizens were questioning commuter rail?

No where to be found....
Disappointed X 10

Winter Haven, FL

#91 Jun 7, 2008
New Day wrote:
Lastly, referring to "smear campaigns by bored sweet housewives" was offensive and sexist. Certainly everyone has an equal voice here.
Like that age old question: if a tree falls in the woods....?

...If a woman calls another a sweet bored housewife (and uses the term "sweet" with all the sincerity it deserves), is it still sexist?
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#92 Jun 8, 2008
I point out that Orange Cty is not paying like the other counties, and I get called a "jerk." Sorry if you took that factual comment personally.

When the WP citizens were questioning commuter rail, it was already a done deal for the area. The only question was : Do we build a stop in WP? WP never had the power to stop the commuter rail route. And by the way, the previous commission and the current commission have done a good job insuring cost certainty-as much as you can in Federal program. If the new costs are a burden, I guarantee everyone in WP wil vote to opt out and cut our losses. Unfortunately, you can't get to the opt out period w/o spending several hundred thousand $. So, should WP have passed the referendum? Should the former commission have passed a resolution with n opt out clause and 30% payment subsidy from Orange County? I don't know, but it's happened and we have to make sure the deal is the same as 2 years ago. "Kick The Can" refers to Orange County and DOT leaders who will not be in WP in 2017 when the bill is delivered. I am glad 2 commissioners met and protected our interests.
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#93 Jun 8, 2008
Susan Langford wrote:
<quoted text>
These attacks are really made by stupid, uninformed individuals.
Doug Guetzloe has led Ax the Tax for decades and has never taken a dime from it.
You one or two detractors certainly climbed out of the same cesspool.
Doug is a honest leader and one whose opinion has been sought by many. So what if he makes his money as a consultant. From the list of clients, apparently most folks think he does good work.
He certainly does good work for taxpayers.
Thank you, Mrs. Guetzloe. Your son is a great American!
watch your back

Winter Haven, FL

#94 Jun 8, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
I point out that Orange Cty is not paying like the other counties, and I get called a "jerk." Sorry if you took that factual comment personally.
The ongoing crusade to wipe out dissenting voices in WP must lead to reading comprehension problems. The intimidators sure are emotional.
Leadership counts

AOL

#95 Jun 8, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
<quoted text>Guetzloe is a shameless. He will anything for money and he does nothing unless he gets money. The poop mailer, the Mallen letter, the last minute yellow sheet are for contradictory candidates.
Maybe you can share with us your accomplishments in the public policy arena?
You have no trouble denouncing the one man who has stood up for taxpayers throughout Central Florida.
The one man who has fought battle after battle without taking one red cent instead putting tens of thousands of his own money behind axe the tax.
Why don't you share with us your accomplishments and bio?
Geutzloe's is at his www.guetzloe.com website and quite frankly it's pretty darn impressive.
Share with us your bio and accomplishments.
But then again real people with real bios don't usually drag down others with assinine character assualts.
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#96 Jun 8, 2008
Leadership counts wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you can share with us your accomplishments in the public policy arena?
You have no trouble denouncing the one man who has stood up for taxpayers throughout Central Florida.
The one man who has fought battle after battle without taking one red cent instead putting tens of thousands of his own money behind axe the tax.
Why don't you share with us your accomplishments and bio?
Geutzloe's is at his www.guetzloe.com website and quite frankly it's pretty darn impressive.
Share with us your bio and accomplishments.
But then again real people with real bios don't usually drag down others with assinine character assualts.
Hey, if you can type that with a straight face, you either live in a trailer in Bithlo (nothing wrong with that, of course) or you're a wack job pretending to be a Dougie supporter. Or maybe you're a stripper at a Daytona jiggle joint. I'll say you're a fake Dougie supporter who secretly wants to work in a Daytona jiggle joint. It would only be 45 minute commute from WP!
New Day

Orlando, FL

#97 Jun 8, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
I point out that Orange Cty is not paying like the other counties, and I get called a "jerk." Sorry if you took that factual comment personally.
When the WP citizens were questioning commuter rail, it was already a done deal for the area. The only question was : Do we build a stop in WP? WP never had the power to stop the commuter rail route. And by the way, the previous commission and the current commission have done a good job insuring cost certainty-as much as you can in Federal program. If the new costs are a burden, I guarantee everyone in WP wil vote to opt out and cut our losses. Unfortunately, you can't get to the opt out period w/o spending several hundred thousand $. So, should WP have passed the referendum? Should the former commission have passed a resolution with n opt out clause and 30% payment subsidy from Orange County? I don't know, but it's happened and we have to make sure the deal is the same as 2 years ago. "Kick The Can" refers to Orange County and DOT leaders who will not be in WP in 2017 when the bill is delivered. I am glad 2 commissioners met and protected our interests.
You didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge an apology and that is frustrating to me when trying to carry on dialogue and reach across the table with another. We're worlds apart, I'm afraid and your ommission said it all.

Being caught up in saving taxpayers with your resolution for the commuter rail fiasco begets disingenuous effort in my opinion. Again, where were you when citizens asked the Commissioners and advisory board (what a joke) to investigate and get more answers before signing off and endorsing this deal? My guess would be you stood silently with your friends who attacked citizens questioning this boondoggle. More than likely you never said a peep when Metcalf and Eckbert blindly signed a contract with no reasonable, inexpensive opt out clause, no caps on O&M, no seat at the regional table, no traffic study, no effort to renegotiate double taxation, no investigation of another station location. I've bought cars with more careful consideration.

Thank goodness for Beth and Phil and Strong and Bridges. We now have a commission representative of the citizens-at-large instead of a small group of vocal opponents who have been cut off at the tet.

I'm not going to convince you of my beliefs nor will you convince me any further of yours. While I appreciate you now suddenly having a change of heart and being appreciative of Beth's and Phil's hard work, I find it challenging to engage in any dialogue. It seems the standard response is everyone must be 1WP. Well, let me remind you that at least that group had the balls to sign their names and stick to the issues rather than participate in a vicious smear campaign like Bluedog. That's why I read and appreciate all of their investigative reporting.

Please note, I won't be reading your reply so do yourself a favor - don't waste your time responding.

And finally, PS. You're not exactly right. Although we didn't have the power to stop CFCR, we did have the power to wait and not rush to judgment and tie ourselves up financially to appease Mica and CSX. If the Commission had the fortitude and common sense to wait and see, we wouldn't be where we are today. But that is then and this is now. I trust our hardworking bright Commissioners will find a solution.
Overit

Lake Mary, FL

#98 Jun 8, 2008
To a degree, the Orlando Sentinel helped lead the taxpayers into this boondoggle with reports and editorials that touted the benefits of rail without mentioning the potential shortcomings. Even Mike Thomas wrote a column about how great it would be to hop on a train, go shopping and grab a quick dinner on the way back.

The Sentinel can lead us out of this project just as easily and should, as the proposed North and South running heavy rail system will never achieve the ridership necessary to make a case for expansion.

All it takes is a change in attitude, and that requires asking the PAPER to explain "it's love affair with rail."
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#99 Jun 8, 2008
"You didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge an apology." Is this like the movie with Kathy Bates where she held the author hostage? Misery!

"And finally, PS. You're not exactly right. Although we didn't have the power to stop CFCR, we did have the power to wait and not rush to judgment and tie ourselves up financially to appease Mica and CSX." There you go again. Why I am enjoying life and you are such a sad sack?
Kick The Can

Winter Haven, FL

#100 Jun 8, 2008
Overit wrote:
To a degree, the Orlando Sentinel helped lead the taxpayers into this boondoggle with reports and editorials that touted the benefits of rail without mentioning the potential shortcomings. Even Mike Thomas wrote a column about how great it would be to hop on a train, go shopping and grab a quick dinner on the way back.
The Sentinel can lead us out of this project just as easily and should, as the proposed North and South running heavy rail system will never achieve the ridership necessary to make a case for expansion.
All it takes is a change in attitude, and that requires asking the PAPER to explain "it's love affair with rail."
The Sentinel will always be a cheerleader for massive taxpayer programs. It's in their DNA.
God Bless Doug Guetzloe

Winter Park, FL

#101 Jun 9, 2008
Kick The Can wrote:
<quoted text> Hey, if you can type that with a straight face, you either live in a trailer in Bithlo (nothing wrong with that, of course) or you're a wack job pretending to be a Dougie supporter. Or maybe you're a stripper at a Daytona jiggle joint. I'll say you're a fake Dougie supporter who secretly wants to work in a Daytona jiggle joint. It would only be 45 minute commute from WP!
The only thing fake on this blog appears to be you.
You also have a severe reality disorder that comes from reading the bovine excrement that comes from this paper. You're apparently reading it AND believing it.
Grow up and check the facts before you embarrass yourself again.
Although you are posting anonymously we can determine your political IQ and it appears to be in single digits.
Doug has a huge following and it's not all in Bithlo or Winter Garden, it's everywhere.

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