Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35911
May 17, 2013
 
*hard data ...
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#35912
May 17, 2013
 
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said that or implied. The US has been successful because it has a mix of industrialists and innovators.
HAD, man HAD. The current dominance of large corporations (to compete globally is the excuse) had eliminated the 'competition' between those trying to take second spot. There IS only one spot now. And the government is not spending enough to encourage innovation. In fact, when they do, they get a backlash from the 'free marketers'.

Four things have made the US an economic engine. One is position (on trade routes between EU and the Far East). Second is easy access to the interior from the Great Lakes and Mississippi water ways. Third was access to untouched high grade resources. Fourth is competitive spirit with many small businesses.

Position is not longer an issue since the Northwest Passage is about to open up. And ships don't have to stop in the US.

The easy access on water routes is still there (mostly) but with the dominance of road travel, it isn't so much a factor any more.

The high grade resources were mostly wasted in the 'rush to industrialize' and grow the economy. And oil resources were never great which has cost a lot. The Middle East has most of the debt money that China doesn't.

The CRITICAL factor today is that innovation is at a standstill. There are still inventions (i.e the Inductrac maglev system) but not DEVELOPMENT of anything. They leave that up to the real countries. The major corporations don't NEED innovation to expand. They already dominate the markets. And any innovator gets 'run over' by the drag of development costs at the same time they are 'frozen out' of markets by dirty tricks.

Germany, Japan, China, look at the major strong economies and look at how many new products are developed there. That is what keeps them strong. And while control of the US markets keeps some US companies in position to garner a share of the wealth, this is losing steam as the consumer loses jobs and 'disposable income'.

The rise of nationalism (one of the characteristics of fascism) generally means that most Americans don't accept these realities but it is happening nonetheless. Unless the US can start moving forward again instead of backward into monopoly, conservativism, etc. they are going to be 'left behind'.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#35913
May 17, 2013
 

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ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>To posters:

now that's more like it!!!!
you crazies have been worried about things in the sky that may be real or imagined (but nothing anyone has shown we can do anything about), but now you bring up something we can ALL get behind!!
let's focus on things we can change anfd[sic] overcome so puzzies[sic] like most of the people on this thead can keep bithin'[sic] about what they don't like about america.
yeah!!!!!
Whine a lot?

http://www.altenergystocks.com/archives/2013/...

If we fear for the future, it is paradoxical to attempt to mitigate risks by remaining invested in fossil fuels. What we do now will bring about the future for better or worse. If we’re to emerge from our 19th century energy system, it must be us, now, today, who set that emergence in motion. Leave fossil fuels for those who prefer to look backwards.

Since: Jul 11

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#35914
May 17, 2013
 
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
HAD, man HAD. The current dominance of large corporations (to compete globally is the excuse) had eliminated the 'competition' between those trying to take second spot. There IS only one spot now. And the government is not spending enough to encourage innovation. In fact, when they do, they get a backlash from the 'free marketers'.
Four things have made the US an economic engine. One is position (on trade routes between EU and the Far East). Second is easy access to the interior from the Great Lakes and Mississippi water ways. Third was access to untouched high grade resources. Fourth is competitive spirit with many small businesses.
..........
I can't argue with a lot of what you say, in the current climate it would be next to impossible for someone to invent a ground breaking product in their garage and have it brought to market.
There are other factors thou and that is a global recession kicked in. So there is a tendency for everyone to play it safe.
However Capitalism in its purest form means the end goal that one corporation owns and controls everything. At this point there is no competition and government is totally in-effective. What Americans have to decide is at what point does the reset button need to be pushed so they can start over with healthy competition again. Do you leave it until there is only ONE Bank, One Grocery chain, One Media outlet etc. In my view one of the quickest ways to hit the reset button is to slowly make fossil fuels worthless.
Easy to do and that is tax them out of existence in a slow and deliberate way or another fuel product is invented that is clean.
Then Innovation kicks back in and its a whole new ball game. A government worth its salt would have to do this on a world scale, for those countries not willing to comply then their products get hit with a import duty. It's pure fantasy and never likely to happen but in your scenario for the US then its fall of the Roman Empire all over again if no course change takes place.

“Let's X Change!!”

Level 4

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

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#35915
May 17, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Whine a lot?
http://www.altenergystocks.com/archives/2013/...
If we fear for the future, it is paradoxical to attempt to mitigate risks by remaining invested in fossil fuels. What we do now will bring about the future for better or worse. If we’re to emerge from our 19th century energy system, it must be us, now, today, who set that emergence in motion. Leave fossil fuels for those who prefer to look backwards.
whine a lot??? lol i tried it once to see what it felt like. it felt....well...sort of like a greeny.

i'm fine with change, btw. in fact i embrace change. i just prefer that free markets make the change instead of government mandates.

i don't disagree with your models as much as i disagree with your unfounded conclusions, son.

it's pretty basic.

“Let's X Change!!”

Level 4

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

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#35916
May 17, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Each one believes their way to success is the only way and there is a lack of harmony Now 97% of Scientists now accept that man is the main contributor to climate change. Yet conservative politics won't accept that assumption so in the US decisions that need to be made do not get made. That is the difference. Why because the Industrialist sees this as taking away his or her piece of the pie to give to the innovator.
these are the points i 100% disagree with.

i am not, nor know of, a businessman who thinks their way is the only way.

97% of scientist may agree that man is responsible for added co2, methane, etc., but are we humans the main contributor?? where can you clarify that observation. if we embraced a 'ludite' mindset tomorrow and 'went on the wagon' with fossil fuels.....what difference would it make?

you guys seem all too willing to give up your freedoms, choices, and powers to the government. i think that's THE BIGGEST MISTAKE.

the rest of what i disagree with is your genralities and unfounded assumptions. care to give proof?
Retired Farmer

Cadiz, KY

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#35917
May 17, 2013
 
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't argue with a lot of what you say, in the current climate it would be next to impossible for someone to invent a ground breaking product in their garage and have it brought to market.
There are other factors thou and that is a global recession kicked in. So there is a tendency for everyone to play it safe.
However Capitalism in its purest form means the end goal that one corporation owns and controls everything. At this point there is no competition and government is totally in-effective. What Americans have to decide is at what point does the reset button need to be pushed so they can start over with healthy competition again. Do you leave it until there is only ONE Bank, One Grocery chain, One Media outlet etc. In my view one of the quickest ways to hit the reset button is to slowly make fossil fuels worthless.
Easy to do and that is tax them out of existence in a slow and deliberate way or another fuel product is invented that is clean.
Then Innovation kicks back in and its a whole new ball game. A government worth its salt would have to do this on a world scale, for those countries not willing to comply then their products get hit with a import duty. It's pure fantasy and never likely to happen but in your scenario for the US then its fall of the Roman Empire all over again if no course change takes place.
True, it would be like the latter days of the Roman Empire. But it would be something else, too, and much worse. Ever hear of something called the "Easter Island Hypothesis"?
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#35918
May 17, 2013
 
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't argue with a lot of what you say, in the current climate it would be next to impossible for someone to invent a ground breaking product in their garage and have it brought to market.
In my view, the things that need doing to restore the US are

1: control or limitation of lobbyists.

2: More than two political parties, so that the voter has a choice less restricted to 'dumb vs dumber'. Maybe any party can be defined that has X percent of the public support and can run candidates is every district. Once certified, they would then have a right to be on the ballots.

It works somewhat for Canada (as long as the left and right are fragmented) as they are today. The requirement for a solid percentage limits the number of parties to avoid endless minority governments.

Public money in support of political candidates funded by the public purse (proportional to votes in the last election) to defuse the power of the corporate donations and ensure that politics isn't so much a matter of how much money your supporters have..

3: Anti-monopoly breakup of Corporations above a set limit or percentage of the market. And I also include holding companies that may unify several corporations under different brand names with a dominance of the market.

4: Limits on campaign spending (return to grass roots).

The one thing I like about the US is that they have a strong 'community spirit' that can solve some things locally.

But this has led to a rejection of federal solutions even when the problem is too big for community based action.

And they have a strong core of competitive spirit (I get better service for defects from the US) that is currently stifled by the dominance of large corporations (that don't need to care). Well, not always but I am talking in general.

All this is to reduce the dominance of money in politics. THE key problem.

Since: Jul 11

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#35919
May 17, 2013
 
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>these are the points i 100% disagree with.
i am not, nor know of, a businessman who thinks their way is the only way.
97% of scientist may agree that man is responsible for added co2, methane, etc., but are we humans the main contributor?? where can you clarify that observation. if we embraced a 'ludite' mindset tomorrow and 'went on the wagon' with fossil fuels.....what difference would it make?
you guys seem all too willing to give up your freedoms, choices, and powers to the government. i think that's THE BIGGEST MISTAKE.
the rest of what i disagree with is your genralities and unfounded assumptions. care to give proof?
What we have here is something that has been the driving force to the World's economy for the last 100+ years is found to have more than a negative impact on the planet's environment. It can also place our food supply & living habitats under threat.

This is just one link, google any other posts in past week to find the same result.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/11128500...

Now changing that might change the whole way we do business and be a monumental lifestyle change. But it doesn't have to be, we can use technology to come up with solutions that right now have not had much incentive to do so when they are up against some oil company finding a new oil field somewhere else to tap. The big factors like shipping and air transport and energy production are key players in this. For instance it might take another 50 yrs to find a fuel for aviation that is clean but in the meantime every one of us could cut back on our own personal use to have a huge impact. It wont happen on "feel good" basis Governments have to enforce it.
So this is where your philosophy of so called "freedom" kicks in and it would be a decision that the government makes for the good of all. No different than science finding asbestos products are dangerous and therefore banned or lead in gas or paint.
Science told us that chlorinating water supplies makes drinking water safe for millions of ppl living in a city. It is also science telling you that we found a threat to our environment and we need to do this to fix it. Only because that threat was the key driver to the economy it was seen as something totally unacceptable
It's nothing to do with personal freedoms it's man progressing with science and knowledge just in the same way as we found out how to live longer through advances in medicines or find our way to other planets.
joey

United States

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#35920
May 17, 2013
 

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F*ck the gov. Quit try'n to scare people.

Since: Jul 11

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#35921
May 17, 2013
 
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
True, it would be like the latter days of the Roman Empire. But it would be something else, too, and much worse. Ever hear of something called the "Easter Island Hypothesis"?
Yeah but you would want to hope that any Aliens visiting our planet way into the future find something more than a barren desert and remains of decaying gas stations.

“Let's X Change!!”

Level 4

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

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#35922
May 17, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
What we have here is something that has been the driving force to the World's economy for the last 100+ years is found to have more than a negative impact on the planet's environment. It can also place our food supply & living habitats under threat.
This is just one link, google any other posts in past week to find the same result.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/11128500...
Now changing that might change the whole way we do business and be a monumental lifestyle change. But it doesn't have to be, we can use technology to come up with solutions that right now have not had much incentive to do so when they are up against some oil company finding a new oil field somewhere else to tap. The big factors like shipping and air transport and energy production are key players in this. For instance it might take another 50 yrs to find a fuel for aviation that is clean but in the meantime every one of us could cut back on our own personal use to have a huge impact. It wont happen on "feel good" basis Governments have to enforce it.
So this is where your philosophy of so called "freedom" kicks in and it would be a decision that the government makes for the good of all. No different than science finding asbestos products are dangerous and therefore banned or lead in gas or paint.
Science told us that chlorinating water supplies makes drinking water safe for millions of ppl living in a city. It is also science telling you that we found a threat to our environment and we need to do this to fix it. Only because that threat was the key driver to the economy it was seen as something totally unacceptable
It's nothing to do with personal freedoms it's man progressing with science and knowledge just in the same way as we found out how to live longer through advances in medicines or find our way to other planets.
At last!! Someone who seems to want a civil conversation. We have our differences I'm sure, but I can accept where you're coming from. I'm headed out the door for dinner right now. Maybe we can kick it around later on or sometime this weekend? I really want the same things you seem to ascribe to....but how we get there.:-/ ttfn

Since: Jul 11

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#35923
May 17, 2013
 
joey wrote:
F*ck the gov. Quit try'n to scare people.
No one is trying to scare anyone. To borrow a phrase from a famous innovator's advertising. It's about getting you to "Think Different" or start to think outside the square. That's how Einstein discovered Relativity and the concept of Time in a whole new way. If you think in a pre-programmed way to deny all that doesn't fit into your concept of how things are then you are denying yourself a opportunity to advance. Conservatism seems to have gone that way and now its trying to hold on to what has long since past. There is no future in that concept, only going backwards.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35924
May 18, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is trying to scare anyone..
"...a barren desert and remains of decaying gas stations."
Not sure I'd like that... Sounds scary!
Sorta like it was meant "to scare someone".
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35925
May 18, 2013
 
"The big threat to Florida's future that elected leaders aren't talking about: the average amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere."
"..in less than 25 years the planet could suffer irreversible damage."
"A hotter planet will be susceptible to long droughts, reduced polar ice, higher sea levels and more acidic oceans. The changes will wreak havoc on food and water supplies, infrastructure, human habitation and economic stability, especially for the billions of humans who live on or near coastlines like Florida's."
"The CO2 milestone indicates that dire scientific predictions are coming true. Doing nothing will be seen in hindsight as one of the worst examples of human greed and ignorance."
This from just ONE review of a scientific study.
Horrible human suffering caused by AGW.
Of course no one is trying to scare anyone ;-)
.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35926
May 18, 2013
 
CO2 WILL DESTROY THE PLANET!!!
If you do not except my words as FACT then you have doomed the Human Race to a horrible burning death because of your denial.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35927
May 18, 2013
 
http://nujournal.net/core.pdf

The Earth is Going to EXPLODE!!!

Pesky CO2
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35928
May 18, 2013
 
“We have an obligation to save [all of] humanity and not just half of humanity,” said Morales. He warned that if we don’t do more to curb global warming,“many islands will disappear and Africa will suffer a holocaust.”

http://progressive.org/mpballve041510.html
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35929
May 18, 2013
 

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Coffee and Chocolate and Beer Oh My.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/11/28/3...

"Like coffee and chocolate, beer is one of the common pleasures of life being damaged now by global warming""

Now wait one darn minute.

Some one IS trying to scare people here!
litesong

Monroe, WA

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#35930
May 18, 2013
 

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drink the kkk-aid wrote:
"...a barren desert and remains of decaying gas stations."
Not sure I'd like that... Sounds scary!
Sorta like it was meant "to scare someone".
However,'drink the kkk-aid' never condemned bob burns & his words & was mute on the subject of bob burns threats:
//////////

litesout wrote:
Here are evidences & words of bob burns who is an alleged criminal & reasons he is an alleged criminal.
bob burns' HELLGATE...
bob burns' quote from hard copy, first post:
You are one despicable piece of shit. I hope you & your lawyer get gunned down. I'll do it myself if I get a chance.
=====
Second post:
I'm coming after your 'wife' too. I'll rape and torture 'her' in front of you. Same with your lawyer. What I do with you will be right out of a Saw movie. I'll film it & put it on the 'net'.
=====
bob burns' replying post:
Burn baby, burn
//////////
'drink the kkk-aid' says toxic topix AGW deniers are not scary......... even the worst, bob burns.

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