Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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“So long to you, Righties”

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keep suckin' and whiffin'!

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#35344
Apr 25, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Another thing has been learned the hard way in the Amazon Valley. I think there might be a similar problem in northern forests.
You can't just clear cut jungle and convert it to pasture or farm fields overnight. IT'S JUNGLE SOIL! It has been a part of a single ecosystem for millennia. To convert it would require converting the existing soil into another kind of soil, as well as adding megatons of fertilizer.
"Adapting deniers" are simpletons who think any part of the world can bend to human will with no problems.
The environment is unbelievably complicated, and not nearly as simple as an unmitigated idiot mistakenly thinks it is.
Indeed, many think that because jungles are lush that jungle soil is rich. It isn't, in fact it's often rather poor. It's mostly the massive rainfall that helps create the growth.

Those who burn off jungle to farm the land rely on the ashes of the burnoff to help fertilize, and that usually only works for a couple of growing seasons. Then they have to move on and burn off MORE jungle, which perpetuates a vicious cycle.

Good post!
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#35345
Apr 25, 2013
 
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>To koolaid guy:
C02[sic] defintely plays a role in warming, and warming in climate change and weather patterns. So I think we have to reject your claims there.
Bad link, too.
True.

Carbon dioxide [CO2] is the greenhouse gas that is responsible for 63% of the warming attributable to all greenhouse gases, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Lab.

http://www.jconline.com/usatoday/article/2110...
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35346
Apr 25, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
...are simpletons who think any part of the world can bend to human will with no problems.
The environment is unbelievably complicated, and not nearly as simple as an unmitigated idiot mistakenly thinks it is.
Good point!
So what is a person who simply believes that removing 12%(48 molecules from 1 million molecules of air) of the trace gas, CO2 , will dramatically change the future of all life on Earth?
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#35347
Apr 25, 2013
 
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed, many think that because jungles are lush that jungle soil is rich. It isn't, in fact it's often rather poor. It's mostly the massive rainfall that helps create the growth.
Those who burn off jungle to farm the land rely on the ashes of the burnoff to help fertilize, and that usually only works for a couple of growing seasons. Then they have to move on and burn off MORE jungle, which perpetuates a vicious cycle.
Good post!
I'm not terribly familiar with northern forests, but if they are mostly evergreen, I would guess that the soil is most suitable for evergreens. I don't believe our diets include many foods that come from evergreens. And if our local pine trees can be a guide, they certainly make the soil beneath them very acid.. That's good for some food plants, but not all. I'll look into it if no one has an answer soon because, of course, as a curious science-tilted guy with a thirst for knowledge, "inquiring minds want to know".

And someone posted about the melting permafrost; that's a whole 'nother situation. That's land that's been frozen for thousands of years. What is its chemical composition? How suitable will it be for winter wheat or other cool climate crops, since it will still be many years before anyone could attempt to till that land?

And I would think there there is probably a considerable difference between the two great northern forests of North America and Eurasia. But I don't know.

To the books! To the Google!
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#35348
Apr 25, 2013
 
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point!
So what is a person who simply believes that removing 12%(48 molecules from 1 million molecules of air) of the trace gas, CO2 , will dramatically change the future of all life on Earth?
An unmitigated realist?
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#35349
Apr 25, 2013
 

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Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point!
So what is a person who simply believes that removing 12%(48 molecules from 1 million molecules of air) of the trace gas, CO2 , will dramatically change the future of all life on Earth?
Forty-eight out of 1,000,000 equals 12%?

I don't think so, Tim.

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

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#35350
Apr 25, 2013
 

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tha Professor wrote:
Oh, shut up and stop waffling. I busted you, at least have the honesty to admit it, troll.
In the long run, Earth is cooling since it condensed and collapsed out of an incandescent ball of gas.

Since: Jul 11

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#35351
Apr 25, 2013
 
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point!
So what is a person who simply believes that removing 12%(48 molecules from 1 million molecules of air) of the trace gas, CO2 , will dramatically change the future of all life on Earth?
It's all about the mix, just because CO2 is part of the natural atmosphere doesn't mean we can flood the place with it. Which is what MAN is doing at the moment. It's all about the balance that is critical to support life regardless of climate and the like. I mean if Oxygen suddenly feel below the 20% mark then we would all slowly suffocate to death. So please don't say we can rob one component to have it replaced with another. Even in China now in the big cities the air quality is so poor on some days its at dangerous levels. If it wasn't for the wind blowing it across for others to enjoy they would have to ban vehicles. Especially when they were adding over a million more cars a month up until 2011. When the gov had to step in to control it, these ppl all threw away the bicycles when corporate US & corporate Europe decided this is where the profits are.

Since: Jul 11

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#35352
Apr 25, 2013
 
Another thing just occurred to me, where were all the deniers when refrigerant and aerosol replaced Freon gas because it was considered to be depleting the ozone layer. This was replaced world wide in the 80's, every fridge, every spray can, every car air con and no one blinked. Why because it did not affect YOUR lifestyle, suddenly when it does the science is BS or its a government conspiracy. I think that is ironic and telling in itself!
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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Apr 25, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>In the long run, Earth is cooling since it condensed and collapsed out of an incandescent ball of gas.
A dodge.

Irrelevant.

Another lie as far as the air and water are concerned.
COAL IS KING

Paducah, KY

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#35354
Apr 25, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not terribly familiar with northern forests, but if they are mostly evergreen, I would guess that the soil is most suitable for evergreens. I don't believe our diets include many foods that come from evergreens. And if our local pine trees can be a guide, they certainly make the soil beneath them very acid.. That's good for some food plants, but not all. I'll look into it if no one has an answer soon because, of course, as a curious science-tilted guy with a thirst for knowledge, "inquiring minds want to know".
And someone posted about the melting permafrost; that's a whole 'nother situation. That's land that's been frozen for thousands of years. What is its chemical composition? How suitable will it be for winter wheat or other cool climate crops, since it will still be many years before anyone could attempt to till that land?
And I would think there there is probably a considerable difference between the two great northern forests of North America and Eurasia. But I don't know.
To the books! To the Google!
If what you say about evergreen forests was true then there would be no agriculture in northern Russia, Norway, Sweden, and Finland because their natural habitat was evergreen forests.

And this: The predictions are incredibly long term, most look forward to the year 2500 for the change to fully take place. That means that the agricultural frontier will move north very slowly, over almost 500 years, so there is plenty of time to adapt to the change.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35355
Apr 25, 2013
 

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teddy r stupid wrote:
Horse crap. Your points are perfectly valid, but you are wrong to say "no one addresses" them.http://www.weyerhaeuser.c om/Sustainability
As my previous post on this thread, & other similar posts I have made on forest practices, have shown, it is inconceivable that you are toting one of the timber barons as being able to contain itself inside good forest practices, without outside monitoring. However, you are 'teddy r stupid'.

Whereas Weyerhaeuser wasn't in the first horrendous tier of timber barons, & actually able to listen to Gifford Pinchot, who was showing America, the European forestry practices which would save from desecration, American forests, today's Weyerhaeuser, isn't deserving of the 'green' label they like to hang on their operations.

Groups like the Washington Forest Law Center & the Sierra Club are seeing Weyerhaeuser, increasingly in the courts, because of environmental law violations.

Weyerhaeuser forest clear cuts are obviously & often too large, on slopes too steep & on terrain not amiable to sustained forest practices. Weyerhaeuser has stated that some rains that have devastated logged areas & consequently entire water sheds, were beyond the abilities to foresee. However, AGW has already shown that precipitation increases are occurring, often in regions that already have too much rain. Hey, this is Washington state with large mountain regions that get 200 inches of rain a year. I have monitored radar data, showing that some small spot areas, hosed by stable & continuing rains coming off the AGW warmed Pacific Ocean, have been struck with 120+inches of rain within a 3-4 day span. Extra evidence that Weyerhaeuser clear cuts are way to big, is that such areas are easily seen from orbiting spacecraft.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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Apr 25, 2013
 

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COAL IS KING wrote:
<quoted text>
If what you say about evergreen forests was true then there would be no agriculture in northern Russia, Norway, Sweden, and Finland because their natural habitat was evergreen forests.
And this: The predictions are incredibly long term, most look forward to the year 2500 for the change to fully take place. That means that the agricultural frontier will move north very slowly, over almost 500 years, so there is plenty of time to adapt to the change.
I stated at the outset that I did not know if a rapid transition could be made in turning northern forests into farmland. Of course everything will depend upon the pace of change.

But as stated by others, soil and temperature are only two of the factors influencing agriculture, with water being one of the big question marks in a changing climate. Will everything stay as reasonably synchronized as it has been? We don't know. We think we are seeing the synchronization getting screwed up now. What if the 2nd Dust Bowl has already started and we lose America's breadbasket in the next ten or twenty years? Will you and your buddies have all those forests clear cut and ready to plant by then? And if it all happens that fast, where are we going to get our spruce, fir, poplar, birch lumber from?

What we do know is that the systems in operation now, in the many locations they are now, are amazingly complex, and jacking with them would be dangerous and costly.

Since: Jul 11

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#35357
Apr 26, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I stated at the outset that I did not know if a rapid transition could be made in turning northern forests into farmland. Of course everything will depend upon the pace of change.
But as stated by others, soil and temperature are only two of the factors influencing agriculture, with water being one of the big question marks in a changing climate. Will everything stay as reasonably synchronized as it has been? We don't know. We think we are seeing the synchronization getting screwed up now. What if the 2nd Dust Bowl has already started and we lose America's breadbasket in the next ten or twenty years? Will you and your buddies have all those forests clear cut and ready to plant by then? And if it all happens that fast, where are we going to get our spruce, fir, poplar, birch lumber from?
What we do know is that the systems in operation now, in the many locations they are now, are amazingly complex, and jacking with them would be dangerous and costly.
Absolutely correct and no one even considers the effect of one whole country losing its bread basket for a number of years. What happens if Russia ends up as the new fertile land mass and a large part of Europe or the USA or even China become barren.
All this at the moment is economically driven without any long term plan until that changes its only going to get worse, its the same with fossil fuels. With globalisation, all the planets forests come under threat, especially places like the Amazon. It's usually driven by some multi national who is not interested in sustainability just quick profits. Be it coffee or cattle.

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Apr 26, 2013
 

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USA TODAY5:44 p.m. EDT April 24, 2013
For the first time in roughly 5 million years, the amount of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere could top 400 parts per million in the Northern Hemisphere next month.

Human ancestors were just learning how to walk on two feet about that time, in a world that was much warmer than the one we walk on today.

Carbon dioxide is the greenhouse gas that is responsible for 63% of the warming attributable to all greenhouse gases, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Lab.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/04...
Level 1

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

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#35359
Apr 26, 2013
 

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COAL IS KING wrote:
That means that the agricultural frontier will move north very slowly, over almost 500 years, so there is plenty of time to adapt to the change.
There you go, future generations: big coal's message to you on the problems of AGW- deal with it.

Shift agricultural production to Canada or Russia. Easy.

Russia gets the Arctic gas and to sell you your bread.

No wonder Russia is playing down the risks of AGW.

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#35360
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sooo, the temperature between the 80th and the North Pole dictate what the temperature is all over the Earth? According to NASA-MSFC (not NASA-GISS) the Earth troposphere has cooled one degree centigrade so far this century as measured by satellites. This compares to NASA-GISS which only measures the temperatures of LARGE cities.
Have you ever heard of the Urban Heat Island Effect? Yep, about two hundred years ago some true free thinkers got together in Boston and wondered if downtown was hotter than it was in the rural areas. So, they started to keep journals taking temperatures every six am and six pm and once a month they would meet in Boston and compare notes. And yes, it was hotter downtown than it was in the surrounding rural areas winter and summer.
Do you know where temperature is measured in Atlanta, GA? Well, at the same place it has been for over sixty year, at the Atlanta Airport. And even though the airport has not moved, the city is. The Atlanta Metro Area is now thirty miles south of the airport.
And all those extra cars, planes, trains, buildings, roads, air conditioners, etc. and the city not only continues to grow, but it gets hotter.
Yep, all Dr. James Hansen has done is document the Urban Heat Island Effect. Meanwhile Germany had it's coldest winter in 150 years. England and France, 50 plus years. China, Mongolia, Russia, etc. all too!!!
You know, the Bering Sea had it's worst winter in 35 years and last year Alaska had met it's coldest temperature ever recorded but the thermomiter broke for about four hours and they suspect it went even lower!!!
Oh goody, I have insulted a few Libtards. Well, Libtards are easy to insult. Some time reality is hard to swallow.

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#35361
Apr 26, 2013
 

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EXXON Pollutes wrote:
With huge profits , the unpatriotic polluters refuse to maintain their aging infrastructure and ethics standards ..........In Mayflower , AK , the EXXON thugs find TINS FOR SALE , and hire cops and judges and private eyes to punish reporting of tar sands oil in the streets and in homes , due to broken KEYSTONE like pipes....ONLY PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE , corporate lawyers are unscrupulous and unpatriotic..........indict the EXXON managers and enabling lawyers and crooked judges.
Oooooo, you are sooo smart. Can you name just ONE of the TEN largest oil companies on this earth?
Well I am not going to wait as I know you "don't get it". Exxon is not in the top ten. In fact it is about the 13th largest oil company on this earth.
Tell us, what profit did Citco make last quarter? Come on now, you aren't an Exxon bigot, are you? You seem to know how much profit the 13th largest oil company on this earth made but you don't know about Citco.
But you do not want to know about Citco because, until recently, was run by your friend Hugo Chavez!!!
Oh, but oil from Venezuela if GOOD in your sicko mind because National Socialists (NAZIs) run it. Yes, Hugo Chavez was a Fascist!
It is amazing how some undereducated bigot like you can possibly make any informed opinion on any subject.
Do you know Exxon puts dihydrogen monoxide in the water they return to our eco system? Do you know that over 2,000 Americans die each year because of dihydrogen monoxide poisoning? And you don't give a damn how many Americans die of dihydrogen monoxide poisoning, but you know how eil Exxon is!
Since you are obvious illiterate, here is a video for you to watch and get educated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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Apr 26, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
USA TODAY5:44 p.m. EDT April 24, 2013
For the first time in roughly 5 million years, the amount of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere could top 400 parts per million in the Northern Hemisphere next month.
Human ancestors were just learning how to walk on two feet about that time, in a world that was much warmer than the one we walk on today.
Carbon dioxide is the greenhouse gas that is responsible for 63% of the warming attributable to all greenhouse gases, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Lab.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/04...
Do you know why the Vikings called Newfoundland "Vinland"? Because a thousand years ago wild grapes grew there and Vikings liked .... wine!
But ya know, wild grapes no longer grow in Newfoundland. Do you know why? Because Newfound is COLDER now than it was a thousand years ago. Have you ever heard of the Medieval Warm Period? Now, what did we humans do a thousand years ago to cause the Medieval Warm Period?
And I bet you believe than evil mankind is more powerful than our Sun, don't you? Well, our Sun is taking a Rip van Winkle and in the past dozen years the Earth has cooled about one degree centigrade!!!!
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/images/ssn_...
Now, if you still believe in Gorebal Warming, you need to move to Canada while there is still room for you.
http://www.thegwpf.org/russian-scientist-warn...

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#35364
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oooooo, you are sooo smart. Can you name just ONE of the TEN largest oil companies on this earth?
Well I am not going to wait as I know you "don't get it". Exxon is not in the top ten. In fact it is about the 13th largest oil company on this earth.
Tell us, what profit did Citco make last quarter? Come on now, you aren't an Exxon bigot, are you? You seem to know how much profit the 13th largest oil company on this earth made but you don't know about Citco.
But you do not want to know about Citco because, until recently, was run by your friend Hugo Chavez!!!
Oh, but oil from Venezuela if GOOD in your sicko mind because National Socialists (NAZIs) run it. Yes, Hugo Chavez was a Fascist!
It is amazing how some undereducated bigot like you can possibly make any informed opinion on any subject.
Do you know Exxon puts dihydrogen monoxide in the water they return to our eco system? Do you know that over 2,000 Americans die each year because of dihydrogen monoxide poisoning? And you don't give a damn how many Americans die of dihydrogen monoxide poisoning, but you know how eil Exxon is!
Since you are obvious illiterate, here is a video for you to watch and get educated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
You are wrong as usual. Exxon is one of the most profitable corporations in the world. My advice for you is to stick your head down into a bucket of dihydrogen monoxide for ten minutes or so.

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