Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday 49,376
When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35370 Apr 26, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
A dodge. Irrelevant. Another lie as far as the air and water are concerned.
Life is just a brief blink of light and warmth before and after and eternity of cold and dark. Enjoy emitting carbon dioxide now because you'll be able to conserve forever when you're dead.
Teddy R

Houston, TX

#35371 Apr 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong as usual. Exxon is one of the most profitable corporations in the world.
Profitable. adj. Producing profit rather than loss. SYN: successful, well-managed, assisting, beneficial, contributive, cost-effective, fruitful, gainful, going, good, in the black, productive, sustaining, useful, valuable, worthwhile

I'm sure they would appreciate your unintended compliment.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35373 Apr 26, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Life is just a brief blink of light and warmth before and after and eternity of cold and dark. Enjoy emitting carbon dioxide now because you'll be able to conserve forever when you're dead.
A dodge.

Irrelevant.

AKA, more bullshit from lyin brian.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35374 Apr 26, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Profitable. adj. Producing profit rather than loss. SYN: successful, well-managed, assisting, beneficial, contributive, cost-effective, fruitful, gainful, going, good, in the black, productive, sustaining, useful, valuable, worthwhile
I'm sure they would appreciate your unintended compliment.
I am sure that they are all of those things as well as m aking more money than most....
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global...
Teddy R

Houston, TX

#35375 Apr 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sure that they are all of those things as well as m aking more money than most....
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global...
Are you saying this is a bad thing they should be reviled for? Or are your touting ExxonMobil stock as a "buy?"

I can't tell which.

Your point is ...?
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35376 Apr 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong as usual. Exxon is one of the most profitable corporations in the world. My advice for you is to stick your head down into a bucket of dihydrogen monoxide for ten minutes or so.
Then, there's the Southern Company, a rather large utility, that hopefully, won't be making a profit.

Kemper County Coal Plant

The Kemper County Lignite Plant is planned to be built in the Chickasawhay flood plain, meaning that any runoff from the project will impact the Pascagoula River system. What Mississippi Power wants to do is dig a 100-foot hole in the ground to extract lignite, a wet, woody, low-energy coal and then burn it in a 500-megawatt plant to be built next door. 20,000 acres of prime forest land and small farms will have to be eliminated from existence in order to build this plant and dig the giant hole in the ground.

The Kemper County area where the electricity is generated is not in Miss. Power's service area, so the electricity will be supplied to that county and surrounding areas while the citizens in the 26 counties served by Miss. Power will actually have their rates increased in order to pay for the construction of the plant-- even if the plant does not generate a single kilowatt of electricity! This will be the first plant ever built in MS to be paid for by rate increases before it is put on line.

The technology to derive electricity from this wet, fossil wood called lignite is experimental. As a result, Miss. Power has already charged ratepayers to send the plans to China where a pilot project is underway to build a plant and see if it can generate more electricity than the power consumed in its operation. Miss. Power claims that if this technology works it can sell it around the world, but if China is developing the pilot project, it seems obvious that China will be selling the technology around the world, not Miss. Power.

cont...

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35377 Apr 26, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying this is a bad thing they should be reviled for? Or are your touting ExxonMobil stock as a "buy?"
I can't tell which.
Your point is ...?
The Rogue made a comment that Exxon was not one of the top ten oil corporations then went on to make statements about profits. I was only showing that Exxon was in fact one of the top ten in profits. The rest of your meandering is off the subject. Go ahead and buy whatever you like. Be cognizant that we may be approaching the big bubble in carbon investments.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35378 Apr 26, 2013
This plant will at least triple the rate electricity costs in the 26 coastal counties since the plant will cost at least $4 billion dollars. This cost is applied to citizens and small business only, since shipyards, casinos, refineries and other large businesses have been guaranteed to have no rate increase as a result of building this plant.

The rate of electricity will have to go up considerably higher than Miss. Power projects because average citizens will likely switch to using more natural gas and other alternatives if the rate is increased. This should eliminate any "all electric homes" from our service area.

Our Public Service Commission is going to decide by May 1 if rates can be increased in order to build this plant. If it is approved, the Sierra Club and concerned citizens may go to court to continue trying to stop this boondoggle from being built. We also hope to convince the DOE that this is not a suitable project for receiving government financial assistance as currently planned.

Southern Company (MS Power's parent) is a major client of Haley Barbour's lobbying firm. Haley Barbour's history with the Southern Company includes aiding Cheney in going back on W's promise to cut emissions ( http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php... ). More recently, the lobbying firm arranged to have federal funds from a similar IGCC plant that was planned in FL and canceled, to be transferred to MS Power. They brag about it on their web site ( http://www.bgrdc.com/clients.html--the second bullet under "Successes"), but transfer of funds to a project before the Environmental Impact Statement is approved is illegal. The Sierra Club intends to file a lawsuit.

<><><>< ><><><> <><>

News comes today that the Sierra Club's predictions are coming true. When first proposed, the plant's construction cost was estimated at $2.4 billion. That was revised fairly soon afterward to $2.88 billion. Now, the latest is that MPC's contractors "underestimated" material and labor costs and have given a new figure of $3.45 billion. Sierra has said all along that it would cost about $4 billion.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35379 Apr 26, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
When first proposed, the plant's construction cost was estimated at $2.4 billion. That was revised fairly soon afterward to $2.88 billion. Now, the latest is that MPC's contractors "underestimated" material and labor costs and have given a new figure of $3.45 billion. Sierra has said all along that it would cost about $4 billion.
Yeah, but they wouldn't have gotten the contract if they had bid $4 billion.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35380 Apr 26, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, but they wouldn't have gotten the contract if they had bid $4 billion.
Surely you're not suggesting that lies were told, similar to those of lyin brian? Or perhaps, mathematical mistakes on a par with lyin brian"s?

Do you think maybe lyin brian was involved?
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35381 Apr 26, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
Surely you're not suggesting that lies were told, similar to those of lyin brian? Or perhaps, mathematical mistakes on a par with lyin brian"s?
Do you think maybe lyin brian was involved?
Cost overruns? How can you calculate for that until you run the course? At least, that's what a lot of companies say.

Lookheed won the wondrous C-5A contract, saying they could build the plane for $16 million per copy. Final costs for the C-5A, one of the worst designed airplanes ever, with crippled lifespan & air-hours, was almost 10 times the cost. Further variations were even higher.

Boeing lost the C-5A contract. Boeing then, turned their C-5A proposal into an airliner...... the 747, one of the best designed airplanes ever, with an incredible lifespan.

The C-5A is a monument to the fact, if you spend enough money & hide enough details, you can turn a 'really poor device' into a 'device'.

Now,'lyin' brian' could have been involved in the C-5A debacle. It said, it was in the military.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35382 Apr 26, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Cost overruns? How can you calculate for that until you run the course? At least, that's what a lot of companies say.
Lookheed won the wondrous C-5A contract, saying they could build the plane for $16 million per copy. Final costs for the C-5A, one of the worst designed airplanes ever, with crippled lifespan & air-hours, was almost 10 times the cost. Further variations were even higher.
Boeing lost the C-5A contract. Boeing then, turned their C-5A proposal into an airliner...... the 747, one of the best designed airplanes ever, with an incredible lifespan.
The C-5A is a monument to the fact, if you spend enough money & hide enough details, you can turn a 'really poor device' into a 'device'.
Now,'lyin' brian' could have been involved in the C-5A debacle. It said, it was in the military.
Parts of the C-5A were fabricated at the Lockheed plant in Meridian, MS. The tail assembly and parts of the wings.

Why would you fabricate parts of a single airplane in different places all over the country? Because Representatives wanted to bring home the bacon. Does that cost more than manufacturing and assembling the aircraft in one giant plant? Without a doubt.

Why didn't Re-pub-lickums compromise on the sequester, even though it took money away from their favorite child, the military? Because they wanted to slow the economy even more to help their chances in 2014 or 2016. Because, in our country today, if you cut the war machine, you hurt Willie the welder and Rosie the riveter.

Several years ago, a Mississippi redneck got pissed about the diversity/equality lectures and shot some of his co-workers, killing 6, I believe. If lyin brian really is a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AND 4-time alleged & 4-time proud threatener and we keep demonstrating how stupid he is and exposing his lies, he might go "Lockheed postal" on us when he gets back to the states. Maybe we should exchange phone numbers in case any of us start dropping off the screen. Then our widows can call the others and warn them about lyin brian.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35383 Apr 26, 2013
Per Lockheed-Martin shooting, Meridian, MS, July, 2003:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_shootin...
Snow Bird

La Fayette, KY

#35384 Apr 26, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I stated at the outset that I did not know if a rapid transition could be made in turning northern forests into farmland. Of course everything will depend upon the pace of change.
But as stated by others, soil and temperature are only two of the factors influencing agriculture, with water being one of the big question marks in a changing climate. Will everything stay as reasonably synchronized as it has been? We don't know. We think we are seeing the synchronization getting screwed up now. What if the 2nd Dust Bowl has already started and we lose America's breadbasket in the next ten or twenty years? Will you and your buddies have all those forests clear cut and ready to plant by then? And if it all happens that fast, where are we going to get our spruce, fir, poplar, birch lumber from?
What we do know is that the systems in operation now, in the many locations they are now, are amazingly complex, and jacking with them would be dangerous and costly.
I think "Coal is King" is a fool for thinking that global warming is good, but a lot of people have been conditioned to think that way. I was born in Appalachia and not long ago the county where I grew up had a big "Pray for Coal" day.

However, he is probably right that humans will have to adapt. I don't think that global warming can be stopped. Even if the USA cuts carbon dioxide emissions places like China, India, and the Third World will still burn coal.

I just hope we have 500 years to do it, but I'm afraid that the crisis will come a lot sooner. Maybe in our children's or grandchildren's lifetimes.

If we are to adapt we have to stop denying that global warming is going to happen and start serious planning for the changes.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35385 Apr 26, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>China's air quality problem isn't caused by CO2. There's no experiment showing man can change global climate in any measurable way and reproducible way.
All I can say is take your big a$$ truck and go live in Beijing for 12 mths doing the 3 hrs commute to work every day at 10 mph. Then decide that man cant do anything about climate change!

http://www.google.com.au/search...
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35386 Apr 26, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
Parts of the C-5A were fabricated at the Lockheed plant in Meridian, MS. The tail assembly and parts of the wings.
Why would you fabricate parts of a single airplane in different places all over the country? Because Representatives wanted to bring home the bacon. Does that cost more than manufacturing and assembling the aircraft in one giant plant?

If lyin brian really is a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AND 4-time alleged & 4-time proud threatener and we keep demonstrating how stupid he is and exposing his lies, he might go "Lockheed postal" on us when he gets back to the states. Maybe we should exchange phone numbers in case any of us start dropping off the screen. Then our widows can call the others and warn them about lyin brian.
Lots of good stuff in your post. First, the C-5A was designed & wind tunnel tests started. Lockheed got in a time crunch. With management ruling over the engineers, they let-out sub-assembly contracts pre-maturely. Further wind tunnel tests showed Lockheed had to junk all their sub-assembly contracts. Wind tunnel tests continued, while Lockheed re-let sub-assembly contracts, again. Further tests showed Lockheed had to junk sub-assembly contracts...... again! However, Lockheed was far too deep into the project to start over. Lockheed named what they had, a hi-stress structure. They told the military, that they would repair it, AS IT FELL APART IN THE AIR.

Like your idea about 'lyin' brian'. You know I've been blowing the whistle on him for years. Many toxic topix AGW deniers, I don't trust. The worst is bob burns as far as threats, but 'lyin' brian' is in the running.

However, toxic topix(ALWAYS SMALL LETTERS) has a share of responsibility, too. Once in the past, a lawyer was on AGW topix forums. He said he would take my case against,'lyin' brian'. Someone(Fair Game?) actually found & divulged his name....Stewart?.... I can't remember now. brian pretended to be mad & had a hissy fit.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35387 Apr 26, 2013
To give a small example how fragile the ocean environment is to rising temps. For one in Australia the Barrier reef is under threat. This is supposed to be one of the Natural Wonders of the world and its slowly being decimated due to rising ocean temps.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1746722/...

Then the giant Kelp forests in Tasmania the island state of Australia. These are the largest in the world and have all but been wiped out by rising ocean temps and warm currents.
In some areas off the east coast of Tasmania they have shrunk by more than 95 per cent, according to CSIRO experts.

The threat is so serious Environment Minister Tony Burke has listed the forests as endangered - the first time a marine ecological community has been given such protection under federal environmental law.
''Giant kelp forests are being progressively lost due to a warming of the sea surface temperature caused by climate change, invasive species and changing land use and coastal activities that contribute to increased sedimentation and runoff and biodiversity loss,'' Mr Burke told The Saturday Age yesterday.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/decimated-k...
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35388 Apr 26, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
Why didn't Re-pub-lickums .......
Got to correct your spelling...... the correct way is,'re-pubic-lick-un'....... uncapitalized, even at the beginning of sentences......

Remember........they 'lick' each others 'pubics', over & over, that's where the 're' comes from. Lots to say in that word,'re-pubic-lick-un'.

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#35389 Apr 26, 2013
*Occupywallstreet does not even mention CO2 in its list of demands because of the bank-funded carbon trading stock markets run by corporations.

Not one IPCC warning says a CO2 catastrophic climate crisis is as real as a comet hit or an asteroid hit. Science has NEVER said it and refuses to say it.

Not one IPCC warning isn't swimming in "maybes".
Not one IPCC warning says a crisis is inevitable or eventual or imminent.
Not one IPCC warning says it "WILL" happen.
Not one IPCC warning explains the tropical fossils under both polar caps proving this climate of today has obviously happened before.
*Science only agrees it "might" happen after 28 years of research so 28 years of “maybe” proves it “WON’T” be a crisis.* Deny that.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35390 Apr 26, 2013
mememine69 wrote:
*Occupywallstreet does not even mention CO2 in its list of demands because of the bank-funded carbon trading stock markets run by corporations.
Not one IPCC warning says a CO2 catastrophic climate crisis is as real as a comet hit or an asteroid hit. Science has NEVER said it and refuses to say it.
Not one IPCC warning isn't swimming in "maybes".
Not one IPCC warning says a crisis is inevitable or eventual or imminent.
Not one IPCC warning says it "WILL" happen.
Not one IPCC warning explains the tropical fossils under both polar caps proving this climate of today has obviously happened before.
*Science only agrees it "might" happen after 28 years of research so 28 years of “maybe” proves it “WON’T” be a crisis.* Deny that.
When you are working it goes without saying you are also planning for your retirement. So indirectly trying to build a nest egg to cover the possibility of not dying the week after you retire. You are making an investment for living a long life. Its the same with the environment, giving it the same value that oil has or any other high priced commodity builds an economy in itself. Then you could buy your carbon credits and cash them in when you retire. Capitalism could drive the environment just like it does the consumer market but you have to give it value. Then all those alternative energy companies would prosper. It's easy done, it just needs the will power of ppl like you who have closed minds because it goes against their lifestyle. For instance if you bought a Mercedes a couple of years ago they paid all the carbon credits that car would emit for 3 yrs in the price. That's how the environment gets value. Then a farmer with a land full of mature trees is just as rich as the one who has the oil well.
What is so hard to understand about that, just because someone is green doesn't make them a hippie living in a cave. They could also be the next Bill Gates.

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