Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

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When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story

“fairtax.org”

Level 8

Since: Dec 08

gauley bridge wv

#35074 Apr 12, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is "smearing", twisty?
Who was so frightened by the graph below that she attacked the author as "deceptive" and "a con artist"- baseless slander?
http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/sha...
You lie and slander and then expect a nice civil dialogue?
Who is the sceptical scientist you flaunt? A 90 year old man who hasn't studied climate science for 30 years.
When he did, the group he was part of came to the conclusion that:
"...human activities, notably deforestation and burning of fossil fuels, were contributing to pronounced changes in the global climate."
That's right: the consensus for 30 years has been that human activity is causing global warming.
All deniers can do is quote a few sceptics whose ideas go against the evidence.
Which is why twisty kristy aka krusty the clown is not here for a polite debate.
She is here to throw muck.
There are a whole lot more trees now in America than a hundred years ago. In fact new growth is out pacing harvesting by up to 42% a year in places. Fossil fuel use is way down and what is being burned is far cleaner than 100 years ago too. Now why doesn't your science factor in these truths?
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35075 Apr 12, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Climate was different millions of years ago, climate always changes. Don't panic.
There were no humans then.

This climate change is humans-instigated via burning of fossils such as coal, oil, and natural-gas. Ninety million tons of man-made CO2 are emitted daily into our atmosphere.

Think about it. Feel it in your gut.

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#35076 Apr 12, 2013
kristy wrote:
I appreciate the civility of your post!! It's nice to actually see dialogue.

>>Thanks, I try to be civil.:)

1. The theory of AGW is that as CO2 rises, temperature rise.

>>The idea of AGW is that warming is caused or accelerated by human release of greenhouse gases. C02 isn't the only greenhouse gas.

2. That the 20th century increase in temperatures is unprecedented.

>>Incorrect. It would be the degree of human involvement in temperature increases since the mid-19th century that would be "unprecedented."

3. That CO2 is the main driver of the climate and that man is mostly responsible for the increase in the temperatures due to the burning of fossil fuels.

>>I don't know of anyone saying that "C02 is the main driver of the climate," and as noted, warming due to greenhouse gases would have many contributors.

4. That climate modeling is able to predict what will happen in the future.

>>It can with some degree of certainty, which has increased as models and computers have increased in sophistication.

This is what the debate is about. So when we talk about the past temperatures, it is important in the debate as part of the theory is that 20th century warming is unprecedented and when we see CO2 continuing to increase but temperatures staying flat for 17 years, then that needs to be investigated more thoroughly.

>>Again, I don't see why warming needs to be "unprecedented," only that there be a link visible between it and human activities. Also, temperatures have not "stayed flat for 17 years." In fact, about 2/3 of the .8 C increase has occurred since 1980.

I find it interesting that so many people believe in consensus science, as science is all about being skeptical. How can we ever progress if we don't let those scientists who are skeptical speak out without fear of being smeared?

>>Science is also about BUILDING consensuses, of course. And are "warming scientists," for lack of a better term, not also smeared by those who deny warming or AGW?

For example, when I posted about Dyson's views on global warming and climate models, one of the others on this board was trying to portray him as someone with crazy ideas who doesn't have a grasp on the science of biology. There are many scientists now questioning the Earth's cooling ability and they are saying that the models aren't reliable. So we have far to go in this science, it's really just in its infancy, far from settled.

>>We have further to go, but given that we know the Earth is warming and that humans play a role, wouldn't it be prudent to consider what actions may need to be taken? Should we wait and see if warming will spiral out of control, or would that be too late?

“fairtax.org”

Level 8

Since: Dec 08

gauley bridge wv

#35077 Apr 12, 2013
57% of human emitted CO2 is removed by the biosphere and oceans.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35078 Apr 12, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
...4. That climate modeling is able to predict what will happen in the future. >>It can with some degree of certainty, which has increased as models and computers have increased in sophistication....
^^^This is evidence global warming is faith based pseudoscience.
Level 1

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#35079 Apr 12, 2013
flack wrote:
<quoted text> There are a whole lot more trees now in America than a hundred years ago. In fact new growth is out pacing harvesting by up to 42% a year in places. Fossil fuel use is way down and what is being burned is far cleaner than 100 years ago too. Now why doesn't your science factor in these truths?
It's called *global* warming dude. Number of trees up in the US? That's good, but what about the rest of the world?

Global fossil fuel use is up. Yes, it's cleaner, but that's other pollutants, not CO2. CO2 is way up and increasing.(Cleaner emissions are due to *regulations* by the way.)

http://www.carbonbrief.org/media/106046/scree...
Level 1

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#35080 Apr 12, 2013
flack wrote:
57% of human emitted CO2 is removed by the biosphere and oceans.
You think that's a good thing?

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acid...
Level 1

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#35081 Apr 12, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^This is evidence global warming is faith based pseudoscience.
A troll wants to cause a commotion and get people ranting and raving because they want their presence on a forum or comments thread to be the main focus. They want the spotlight and attention on them.

To do this they will disrupt the flow of conversation, provoke fellow commenters and/or post abusive statements to inflame a response.

Often they will play devils advocate, vigorously defending statements or positions they know to be illogical or untrue in an attempt to get people riled up.
http://www.insidersedge.co.uk/lifestyletips/h...

One of the favourite tools of the troll is of course to turn truth on its head: it's AGW denial that's faith based pseudoscience.

All of the world's scientific academies have looked at the evidence and come to the conclusion that AGW is real and we need to do something about it.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35082 Apr 12, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<[URL deleted] One of the favourite tools of the troll is of course to turn truth on its head: it's AGW denial that's faith based pseudoscience. All of the world's scientific academies have looked at the evidence and come to the conclusion that AGW is real and we need to do something about it.
They haven't all concluded we need to do the same thing, there is disagreement. Some believe there's nothing to be done about climate; the experimental branch of man made greenhouse gas climate theory.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35083 Apr 12, 2013
The green troll gives troll lessons for free.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35084 Apr 12, 2013
flack wrote:
<quoted text> There are a whole lot more trees now in America than a hundred years ago. In fact new growth is out pacing harvesting by up to 42% a year in places. Fossil fuel use is way down and what is being burned is far cleaner than 100 years ago too. Now why doesn't your science factor in these truths?
Nonsense.

Why don't you provide evidence to your nonsense? You can't because you have none.

Let's take the US trees. Are you telling me there were not trees where there are now highways, pipelines, airports, housing for about 330 million people, supermarkets, schools, hospitals, facilities for the biggest army in the world, ports, factories, refineries, mines, sewage ponds, electricity transmission lines, stadiums of all kinds, shopping centers, large farms, large ranches, animal slaughter conglomerates, harvest silos, animal grazing fields, warehouses, garbage dump sites, grass lawns, supermarkets, truck stops, parking lots, police stations of all kinds, the most and largest prisons in the world, detention centers, zoos, play grounds, rodeo grounds, film studios, opera houses, theaters, concert halls, track fields, rest homes, pharmacies, border facilities, new government buildings of all kinds, bus depots, golf courses, tennis courts, ball fields, telescope sites, museums, business buildings, court buildings, city buildings, dams, fish ponds, swimming pools, city-water and distribution systems, end-to-end railroads, shipyards, boat hangers, plane hangers, NASA/space facilities, immigration facilities, garages, car repair shops, tree farms, helicopter pads, the biggest mail system in the world, tv stations, rental car agencies, car lots, electronic factories, Apple, MS, ski facilities, ski hills, telecommunication facilities, sink holes, lumber yards, movie theaters, sewage lines, telephone towers, restaurants, fast food eateries, cafetarias, Walmart, Topix headquarters,..?
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35085 Apr 12, 2013
[QUOTE who="lyin' brian"]The green troll gives troll lessons for free.[/QUOTE]

"lyin' brian' gives slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pigisms AND 4 alleged & 4 proud threats for free.

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#35086 Apr 12, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^This is evidence global warming is faith based pseudoscience.
You're a liar, Brainless_G. Plain and simple. Don't lie about what I say, boy.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35087 Apr 12, 2013
flack wrote:
There are a whole lot more trees now in America than a hundred years ago. In fact new growth is out pacing harvesting by up to 42% a year in places. Fossil fuel....... burned is far cleaner than 100 years ago too.
Don't take credit for Gifford Pinchot's efforts to corral the timber barons, who were cutting as many trees as they could, would have left the U.S. a treeless desert, & caused logger deathrates higher than warfare! A third of 18 years would never be 65 years old & 20% of loggers were injured...... PER YEAR!

Your 42% new growth rate is an industry lie(probably referring to 10-by-10 miles region in some undesignated area), as major forests world-wide are disappearing, both legally & illegally.

Again, don't take credit for decades of hard work by environmentalists to get protection from people's lungs, heart & neuorlogical diseases caused by air pollution. The major industries cried all the way to the bank, saying they never would survive if healthy air was established. Of course, those major industries still cry in places like China, S.America, & other developing nations.
Teddy R

Houston, TX

#35088 Apr 12, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Nonsense.
Why don't you provide evidence to your nonsense? You can't because you have none.
Let's take the US trees. Are you telling me there were not trees where there are now highways, pipelines, airports, housing for about 330 million people, supermarkets, schools, hospitals, facilities for the biggest army in the world, ports, factories, refineries, mines, sewage ponds, electricity transmission lines, stadiums of all kinds, shopping centers, large farms, large ranches, animal slaughter conglomerates, harvest silos, animal grazing fields, warehouses, garbage dump sites, grass lawns, supermarkets, truck stops, parking lots, police stations of all kinds, the most and largest prisons in the world, detention centers, zoos, play grounds, rodeo grounds, film studios, opera houses, theaters, concert halls, track fields, rest homes, pharmacies, border facilities, new government buildings of all kinds, bus depots, golf courses, tennis courts, ball fields, telescope sites, museums, business buildings, court buildings, city buildings, dams, fish ponds, swimming pools, city-water and distribution systems, end-to-end railroads, shipyards, boat hangers, plane hangers, NASA/space facilities, immigration facilities, garages, car repair shops, tree farms, helicopter pads, the biggest mail system in the world, tv stations, rental car agencies, car lots, electronic factories, Apple, MS, ski facilities, ski hills, telecommunication facilities, sink holes, lumber yards, movie theaters, sewage lines, telephone towers, restaurants, fast food eateries, cafetarias, Walmart, Topix headquarters,..?
The poster is not entirely wrong, particularly in the most populous Northern States, and certainly deserved a more respectful and fact-based response from you.

Educate yourself. Acquaint yourself with the facts before posting:

http://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/briefings-su...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35089 Apr 12, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
The poster is not entirely wrong, particularly in the most populous Northern States, and certainly deserved a more respectful and fact-based response from you.
Educate yourself. Acquaint yourself with the facts before posting:
Wrong is wrong.

Once again, Teddy is WRONG.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#35090 Apr 12, 2013
litesong wrote:
.......timber barons, who were cutting as many trees as they could, would have left the U.S. a treeless desert, & caused logger deathrates higher than warfare! A third of 18 years would never be 65 years old & 20% of loggers were injured...... PER YEAR!
//////////
Should be:

.......timber barons, who were cutting as many trees as they could, would have left the U.S. a treeless desert, & caused logger deathrates higher than warfare! A third of 18 year-olds would never be 65 years old & 20% of loggers were injured...... PER YEAR!

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35091 Apr 12, 2013
Anyway amongst all the crap that the deniers post the one consistent point they make is no matter how much development, no matter how much land clearing takes place and no matter how much fossil fuel we burn combined on the planet, it comes at NO cost! Which reflects how advanced we are as a culture when that type of thinking takes place along with the right to bear arms or killing others under a banner of religious or political beliefs. About as advanced as a house brick!
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35092 Apr 12, 2013
my 2 cents worth

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35093 Apr 12, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
You're a liar, Brainless_G. Plain and simple. Don't lie about what I say, boy.
He said: "...4. That climate modeling is able to predict what will happen in the future. >>It can with some degree of certainty, which has increased as models and computers have increased in sophistication...." That claim isn't based on science, it's a faith based belief.

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