Church Gunman Left Online Rant Between Shootings

Posted in the Oklahoma City Forum

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1 - 5 of 5 Comments Last updated Jan 2, 2008
forgiving husband

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#1
Dec 30, 2007
 
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14822541...
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"I remember the beatings and the fighting and yelling and insane rules and the Bill Gothard bull*.... I remember how it was like every day was Mission Impossible trying to keep the rules or not get caught.

My comment:

This is yet another out cry of beatings and abuse that has been brought forth about this supposedly non profit org. in other states. Placing pressure on teens to the point of knowing they can never measure up. One slip and God will turn his back on them.
Being faced with conflicting teachings . Where they see and hear of the ones who are set up to be mentors saying do as I say not as I do

I feel for the families who’s loved ones lost involved in this event. but feel Mathew Murray is a victim as well.

How is this helping to prepare a youth to face the real world ?

Why was I told that I couldn't be a missionary because I wasn't 'social enough'? I was told that I was 'an introvert,

"' nghtmrchld26 wrote. "Everyone else got to go on their outreaches except for a few who lied about smoking (cigarettes). The authoritarianism and hypocrisy is outrageous

I killed the king of deceit and now I sleep in anarchy."
My comment:
I wonder who he was talking about.

"The way I see it, why should we allow some Pentecostal charlatan "prophet," or church or group such as C. Peter Wagner or YWAM/King's Kids Denver or other self-appointed "source of Truth" like Bill Gothard to dictate who's going to hell and who's not and who's accepted and who's out casted?," he wrote Oct. 6. "I remember growing up in pentecostalism/evangelicalism,

We were always told to support republicans/conservatives and to hate those evil satanic democrats. Jesus never said to put trust in any political leaders.
I think he has a well made point here.

"We'll make our own religion and be our own God's instead listening to some abusive pedophile church like what I was raised in telling us who's 'saved' and who's not,"

My comment:
I wonder if someone already had that idea except to fill their pockets.
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forgiving husband

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#2
Dec 30, 2007
 
I think he has a well made point here.
This also my comment
forgiving husband

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#3
Dec 31, 2007
 
Haggard Admits Buying Meth From Male Prostitute
New Life Church Pastor Talks Outside His Home
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10231729...

Haggard -- an outspoken opponent of gay marriage and homosexuality -- also stepped down as senior pastor at his 14,000-member New Life Church pending an investigation by a church panel, saying he could "not continue to minister under the cloud created by the accusations."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10228110...

Rev. Ted Haggard, Senior Pastor of New Life Church, stated today that he could "not continue to minister under the cloud created by the accusations made on Denver talk radio this morning


AS I UNDERSTAND THIS REMARK MADE THE ACCUSATIONS UN-CLEAR OR UN -TRUE

Church Leaders Respond
Due to the seriousness of Rev. Haggard's misconduct while in the leadership roles he held, we anticipate that an extended period of recovery will be appropriate," the statement said.

KIND OF DIFFERENT VIEW THAN TELLING A TEEN
couldn't be a missionary because I wasn't 'social enough'? I was told that I was 'an introvert,

NOTE HERE:
We were always told to support republicans/conservatives and to hate those evil satanic democrats.

Jesus never said to put trust in any political leaders.

"It's political, right before the elections," said Brian Boals, a New Life member for 17 years.
Church member E.J. Cox, 25, called the claims "ridiculous."

"People are always saying stuff about Pastor Ted," she said. "You just sort of blow it off. He's just like anyone else in the public eye."

Jones, who said he is gay, said he was also upset when he discovered Haggard and the New Life Church had publicly opposed same-sex marriage.

"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," he said.
Jones, whose allegations were first aired on KHOW-AM radio in Denver, claimed Haggard paid him to have sex nearly every month over three years. He said he advertised himself as an escort on the Internet and was contacted by a man who called himself Art, who snorted methamphetamine before their sexual encounters to heighten his experience.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10231729...

Two years ago, when conservative Christians were pushing Bush to make a gay marriage ban a top priority, Haggard told the Dallas Morning News many association members believed "the federal marriage amendment should be at the center of this election."
He also boasted to the Wall Street Journal that he could call the White House and get an answer from Bush within 24 hours.

Haggard has participated in conservative Christian leaders' conference calls with White House staffers and lobbied members of Congress last year on U.S. Supreme Court appointees after Sandra Day O'Connor announced her retirement.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY WE HAVE A SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
MAYBE ITS TIME TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK INTO CLAIMS THEY HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, HAVING GOOD CHARACTER WHEN ITS CLEAR THOSE WHO ARE THE LEADERS OF THE PROGRAMS ARE NOT.

MAYBE ITS TIME TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING AND DEFINE THE SYSTEM OF TRACKING IT AND PROVIDING RULES TO IT'S USE BEING A NON PROFIT ORG
forgiving husband

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#5
Dec 31, 2007
 
I think it's strange that Bill Gothard wrote the book "The Power of Crying Out," Mathew Murray was doing just that. All he was told he couldn't be a missionary because he wasn't 'social enough'? Called him 'an introvert. Can't help but wonder what he would call Rev. Haggard . If Gothard claims" that most mental illness, including schizophrenia," is the result of individuals failing to accept "personal responsibility.

Rev. Ted Haggard, Senior Pastor of New Life Church, stated today that he could "not continue to minister under the cloud created by the accusations made on Denver talk radio this morning

AS I UNDERSTAND THIS REMARK MADE THE ACCUSATIONS UN-CLEAR OR UN -TRUE

Rev. Ted Haggard was not crying out.

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forgiving husband

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#6
Jan 2, 2008
 
A Dilemma for Phil Heimlich: Marcus Fiesel v. Bill Gothard

http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/con...

A Look back reveals there have been others hurt related to this program.

Tuesday, September 05, 2006

I’m sure they would like to cry out but might face more time locked in a prey closet.

Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
In Sunday’s Enquirer, Phil Heimlich took the tragedy of Marcus Fiesel (a child who died after being restrained and locked in a closet) as an opportunity for some good, old-fashioned political campaigning—by writing this column about the need to protect children from abuse. I have to wonder, however, how Phil’s mind reconciles the idea for child safety with the behavior of his friend Bill Gothard, a cult leader whose organization has been busted for abusing children as a regular part of its “training institutes.”
For years, he has drawn millions of people to seminars on christian parenting raising millions for his Illinois based operation: The Institute in Basic Life Principles.
A former leader talks about an eight year old put into the solitary confinement of the prayer room, where they say a day is added each time you open the door. Former ITC leader Blair Aldridge says,“so when I saw him...I said Alex (the 8 year old) quit opening the door because the more you don’t the sooner you’ll get out. That’s when he said to me I just want to see someone’s face Blair and that’s when I decided I need to do something to get the kids out”
There are strong allegations—including kids put in solitary confinement with no food and kids beaten with a wooden board. Allegations that the public defender called “disturbing.”
“Tara” was sent to the Indianapolis Training Center by the Marion County courts when she was only nine. She has spent the last ten months there. Monday, the News 8 I-Team sat with the family in court when they learned that Tara was going back home to her mother.
The public defenders office called Child Protective Services after hearing that Tara had been spanked 14 times with a wooden board, had been locked in a prayer room for days at a time and had three leaders—who are teenagers—sit on her stomach, legs and shoulder restraining her.

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