A 600 amp meter setup is basically straight wired from the transformer to the disconnect(breaker) in the very large house or commercial building. The wires pass through current transformers(donuts) and send a 120v signal for measuring use. In that case,you pull the meter and nothing happens as it can't interrupt the load. Pulling the 200,320,and 400 amp residential meters will kill the power.<quoted text>
I agree. But all meters installed are not "house" meters. If you have a 600A installation then they use an industrial type of meter that can handle the higher currents.
I am not calling in question your expertise on "house" meters but that is not what I am talking about here.
#408 Jul 9, 2012
#409 Jul 10, 2012
Snobbishness and arrogance are earned. Get your own.
I'm not narrow minded. I fully believe not everyone
is intelligence enough to have a valid opinion. All men
aren't created equal.
If that's cruel to you, learn to live with it.
#410 Jul 10, 2012
Snobbishness and arrogance are not earned. They are a disease.
A putrid, festering blight that too often inflicts the popular, the powerful, and the wealthy - particularly those that have not earned their wealth through their own efforts.
Intelligence is NOT distributed equally among men. Neither are good looks, wealth, athletic prowess or superb skill in any field. But being blessed with any of those is no reason to treat others with disrespect.
Humility and "class" are skills that can be learned, and if indeed you were blessed with superior intelligence and wealth, you should have the mental capacity and means to learn them.
#411 Jul 10, 2012
#412 Jul 10, 2012
Smart Meter Safety: Who do you believe?
Those in the health field or those who work with machines and computers and have a vested financial interest in telling us smart meters are safe?
International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and World Health Organization reclassified radio frequency electromagnetic fields as a Class 2B carcinogen
The Parliamentary Assembly Council of Europe(PACE) released Resolution 1815 on the Potential Dangers of Electromagnetic Fields and their effect on the Environment.
The Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection(RNCNIRP) The results of clinical studies have shown that chronic exposure to RF EMF may lead to borderline psychosomatic disorders.
Seletun Statement, Norway: The International Electromagnetic Field Alliance (IEMFA) released their report entitled Scientific Panel on Electromagnetic Field Health Risks: Low-intensity (non-thermal) bioeffects and adverse health effects are demonstrated at levels significantly below existing exposure standards. ICNIRP and IEEE/FCC public safety limits are inadequate and obsolete with respect to prolonged, low-intensity exposures.
Porto Alegre Resolution, Brazil. Scientists and doctors recognize electrohypersensitivity and are concerned that exposure to electromagnetic fields may increase the risk of cancer and chronic diseases; that exposure levels established by international agencies (IEEE, ICNIRP, ICES) are obsolete; and that wireless technology places at risk the health of children, teens, pregnant women and others who are vulnerable.
Venice Resolution, Italy. International Commission for Electromagnetic Safety (ICEMS) Scientists recognizes biological effects at non-thermal levels, that standards are inadequate, that electro-sensitivity exists.
BioInitiative Report, USA. Documents 2000 studies showing biological effects of extremely low frequency (ELF) electromagnetic fields and radio frequency (RF) radiation
Helsinki Appeal, Finland. Physicians and researchers presented the Helsinki Appeal to the European Parliament. The present safety standards of ICNIRP (International Commission of Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection) do not recognize the biological effects caused by non-ionizing radiation except those induced by the thermal effect. In the light of recent scientific information, the standards recommended by ICNIRP have become obsolete and should be rejected.
Irish Doctors’ Environmental Association (IDEA), Ireland. Members of IDEA wrote a position paper on electromagnetic radiation. The strictest possible safety regulations should be established for the installation of masts and transmitters, and for the acceptable levels of potential exposure of individuals to electro-magnetic radiation.
Germany’s Environment Ministry issued a warning to German citizens to avoid wireless technology when possible and return to cabled means of communication.
The French national library banned Wi-Fi in libraries.
The European Environmental Agency called for action to reduce public exposure to radiation from mobile phones, Wi-Fi, Wi-Max, and other antennas.
“…the inauguration of smart meters with grudging and involuntary exposure of millions to billions of human beings to pulsed microwave radiation should immediately be prohibited…”
– Olle Johansson, Ph.D. Department of Neuroscience, Karolinska Institute (Sweden)
“It’s one thing to be on a cell phone for one hour per day, but if you are exposed to smart meter or a cell tower, you are exposed 24/7 so the effect is cumulative.”
– Henry Lai, Ph.D.
Professor, Bioelectromagnetics Research Laboratory Dept. of Bioengineering, University of Washington (Seattle)
#413 Jul 10, 2012
The popular, powerful, and wealthy earn their snobbishness.
Common people can't deserve it.
Intelligence is not distributed equally that's evident.
And there is no reason to treat the common others with
respect as equals. The only people who want equality are the
#414 Jul 10, 2012
That's a profound reply.
You should have stayed in public school longer.
There's no point in having captioning on your
Television. Evidently you can't read that quickly.
#415 Jul 10, 2012
You really do make me LMAO!!! I told you before and you never responded because the truth kills you, but you are in a battle of whits unarmed! You truely must be a pimple faced kid on dads computer!!! ROFL
#416 Jul 11, 2012
Smart meters are being "deployed" on people even though there is overwhelming evidence they are harmful..Has this kind of travesty happened before? Yes, it is true that asbestos was a known killer decades before it was rained down on the population..but the victims themselves didn’t know the invisible asbestos fibers caused cancer……. This time we have internet.. and now at least some people are aware of what's being done to them. It's good to see people fighting and winning against the greed of industry.
#417 Jul 11, 2012
How are smart meters "the greed of industry"? Do you understand why the utility companies want them(SET ASIDE THE RF ARGUEMENT). You don't believe the meters are a tool for the customer to monitor his or her usage and adjust? Oh, the utility company would love to sell you more kilowatts, but there are only so megawatts available. What do they gain? The utility companies aren't manufacturing the meters, so they don't "profit" by selling them to us
#418 Jul 11, 2012
Let me jump in here. According to the filing heard by the corporation commission, the majority of the argument presented by OG&E had to do with the savings realized through the elimination of the costs associated with meter reading.
There have been some studies having to do with short term behavioral modification through the use of monitoring, but the OG&E study presented to the commission was heavily influenced by OG&E employees, their friends and families. No long term study was presented. According to the commission presentation, at best OG&E expects 20% of people to participate in the self-monitoring program, and of those, permanent behavior modification expectation is expected to be insignificant. Virtually no energy savings will be realized. The hope is that consumers will "move around" their energy use to avoid peak hours, but the fact is that peak hours are created by people using electricity primarily for A/C.
I interviewed management at OG&E and they admitted all of this information when pressed a little. They admitted that by far the most significant savings was not energy savings, but rather operational savings.
If the benefit was energy savings, then there are existing products available to consumers that allow them to monitor their own energy use without the installation of a SMART meter, or the collection of that information by the central utility.
OG&E has had a SMART meter implementation on the books for quite some time and had received authorization from the corporation commission to add a surcharge to consumer's bills to finance the SMART meter change over. Obama's stimulus package allocated several billion dollars to the SMART grid through the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense, and OG&E took advantage of over $300 million in stimulus dollars for the SMART grid.
The meters are manufactured by GE, a huge company which has been a strong supporter of Obama and has realized a multi-billion dollar windfall from the stimulus package.
So in a nutshell, corporate greed is from the utilities that eliminated the meter reading positions, incurred a cost of nearly a third of a billion dollars for the change-over, and whose self-admitted benefit will be operational rather than energy savings.
I believe in energy savings. However, letting people monitor their bills works as a novelty, but will not lead to long-term savings. The only way to save energy is to invest in capital equipment at the point of consumption.
Three hundred million dollars, the cost associated with the SMART meter upgrade would have paid for a total geo changeover for 60,000 homes at $5k per home. That would have netted a REAL energy savings of about a half billion kw-hours annually.
So - unfortunately - the real secret is that all the money spent to "save energy" was basically not to "save energy" but rather to cut operational costs by shoving SMART METERS down people's throats. They launched a multi-million dollar PR campaign to convince people just how wonderful the whole deal is, but as usual, the devil is in the details.
Rule of thumb - if it requires a huge PR campaign to convince you what a good deal something is, it probably isn't.
This is a fraud of epic proportions foisted upon the hard-working folks of Oklahoma.
I hate to say it, but it mostly comes down to government deception, cronyism and corporate profiteering.
#419 Jul 12, 2012
We don't need a smart meter or the utility company to to monitor electric usage. Those that are interested can install a monitor themselves to find out how their electricity is being used. We don't want or need to have a "tool" forced on us by the utility company...and then have to spend forevery paying for it.
Speaking of deception, and profiteering....putting a smart meter on every dwelling in the world...and then chips in every appliance in every home in the world...I would be surprized it this isn't THE record breaking money rip off of all time. We should not, must not, stand for being robbed and spied on and harmed. The utility companies are making a BIG bundle on this or they wouldn't be ramming it down our throats in the face of nation wide and world wide revolt.
#420 Jul 12, 2012
There is just so much electric power out there. OG&E,TVA,Consoladated Edison,The Southern Companies,FL&P,all are trying to manage what little there is so everyone will keep the lights on growth surpasses load capacity. We will learn to manage and conserve what we have,relax the red tape and restrictions on nuclear energy production, or everyone will have to get used to rolling blackouts. The last item you won't like. We've gotten use to air conditioning,electric lights, and elevators
#421 Jul 12, 2012
Who was this "management" you talked to? "When pressed they admitted"..........I would have to have proof of that statement.
#422 Jul 12, 2012
I had discussions with 3 levels of marketing management and the managing director of the technical rollout. I also coordinated my findings with another researcher who had meetings with marketing management.
You can get a great deal of information from the information presented to the corporation commission. Just read all of the notes. Look at the study which was done in Norman. If you poke around, you will find that many of the participants of the study were OG&E employees. In addition, ask yourself why Norman was chosen for the study. Why not Lawton or Midwest City or Yukon? Norman is well known to be the "Berkeley" of Oklahoma, very left leaning and "green". Most university towns lean that way.
In addition to my own research, I also coordinated my findings with another researcher who also met with management.
I understand that you may not like my statements so do your own research Talk to the department that is managing the SMART meter roll out and ask them what percentage of participation they have on their SMART tracking program. It is public knowledge that they have to present to the corporation commission so they should tell you. You can also ask them of those that have participated, ask what percentage of actual energy reduction has been achieved. Not just moving energy consumption around but actually saved energy.
The realistic expectation for the program is around 1 or 2 percent of energy savings or migration. That's what we got for $300 million dollars.
It isn't appropriate to name names on this forum. So go ahead and do your own research.
But the cost of the SMART program is indisputable. The manufacturer of the meters, GE, is indisputable. The operational savings from the elimination of meter readers and house visits for move-ins, move-outs, and cut-offs is indisputable.
You can also infer quite a bit of information from the OG&E quarterly reports and quarterly statements.
Just for the record, as a businessman, I have nothing against a company making a profit through operational efficiency, but it disturbs me when the population is thrown a red herring to cloak an unpopular operational savings as energy savings.
#423 Jul 12, 2012
And why is there such a limited amount of electrical power? Is it because we don't have natural resources such as coal or natural gas? No, that is not the case at all.
Our access to those resources is being artificially constrained by left-leaning bureaucrats that will not authorize new natural gas plans and who are closing down coal-fired plants.
This is not a free-market problem. It is a problem that has been orchestrated by the bureaucracy. When there is a shortage of power and rolling blackouts, etc., look no further than the agencies that will not allow new plants to be built and that are demanding that coal-fired plants be shut down.
#424 Jul 12, 2012
If all of this is public knowledge, who did you talk to at OG&E? It's easy to post on a forum, but if you can't back it up or give names so that others can talk to the same person. I talked to a meter reader and he said there are $100 bills inside the meters......can't say who though
#425 Jul 12, 2012
You clearly see the future power shortage problem. Are you willing to sit in the dark without air conditioning so that others across the grid that do participate in conservation,management and regulation don't have to?
#426 Jul 13, 2012
LMAO - You can do the same research that I did. If you would like to meet me in OKC sometime I would be glad to share the names, dates, letters, notes from telephone conversations, etc.
I do not post other people's names on the web as a matter of courtesy.
#427 Jul 13, 2012
Speaking of meeting..
A good start to halt this smart meter lunacy is for all the people against smart meters to meet and organize protests.
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