OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, Sta...

OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, State Question 756

Created by CitizenTopix on Oct 11, 2010

1,604 votes

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Other (explain below)

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21675 Jun 23, 2012
Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
You really should educate yourself Dusty. You have the time...take advantage of it.
I would imagine that if you working class poor, paying a higher rate of taxes than Rupert Murdoch and you child is dying of cancer that you might see the difference in socialized medicine and giving everyone a cell phone Mr. Straw man.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21676 Jun 23, 2012
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
Still whining and crying, get you a damn job and pay your own and quit leaching of the taxpayer for you existance. You damn liberal hacks are all just alike, want something for nothing
Socialized medicine is not free for anyone. Everyone pays in. You're a stupid man.
Packing Heat

United States

#21677 Jun 23, 2012
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Socialized medicine is not free for anyone. Everyone pays in. You're a stupid man.


I have a better idea, you pay your own way and I pay my own way.
Problem solved!

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21678 Jun 23, 2012
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a better idea, you pay your own way and I pay my own way.
Problem solved!
I have a better idea. Everyone gets a chance to pay their own way. Socialized medicine.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

#21679 Jun 23, 2012
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
I hear you. Trying to but he doesn't pay attention. Just like all leftwing hacks, if you do not agree with him then he starts crying and name calling. I suppose I shouldn't stoop down to his level but it is entertaining to watch his anger spew out.
He tries to run off all those that disagree with him but I have breaking news for that hack, I am here to stay.
I'm afraid you are correct if you continue to point out where he is wrong. He really should learn some new material instead of his old lame "nice pig routine", lol.
I could agree with some of the liberal ideas if they came with solutions like you offered where the taxpayer as a whole gets something in return. The problem is hacks like Dusty want to soak the rich and have it handed to them and give nothing in return and I'll never ever agree to such nonsense.
The one thing I look for in people is not so much their ideology or bias...but whether they are "rigid" in it. Your to the right...and you know you are...yet your not blind. You do have the ability to see both sides. You are open to other points of view...just not rigid points of view. For that reason alone I hope you stick around to give me your points of view on some ideas I will present later.

I'm not for or against socialized medicine...I am more concerned with how it is done. We're going to have it....so lets have a good system. I don't want anything that kills the free market ie all rich are evil...nor do I want anything that leads to communism ie the government takes care of all your needs. Either or is not acceptable.
Packing Heat

United States

#21680 Jun 23, 2012
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a better idea. Everyone gets a chance to pay their own way. Socialized medicine.


No thanks, not interested. And when the SCOTUS throws that mess Democrats wasted 2 years on I hope we are through with this subject. Oh and while they're at they can also give back the half trillions dollars they stole from the seniors medicare damn theives.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

#21681 Jun 23, 2012
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I would imagine that if you working class poor, paying a higher rate of taxes than Rupert Murdoch and you child is dying of cancer that you might see the difference in socialized medicine and giving everyone a cell phone Mr. Straw man.
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.

What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21682 Jun 23, 2012
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
No thanks, not interested. And when the SCOTUS throws that mess Democrats wasted 2 years on I hope we are through with this subject. Oh and while they're at they can also give back the half trillions dollars they stole from the seniors medicare damn theives.
Of course you're not interested. You want the veterans over at the understaffed and incompetent veterans administration. You want seniors trying to find a doctor who will take medicare and they pay a third of their social security for plan B and a supplement. You want the working class poor to not have any medical at all and you want all illegals deported and all welfare people thrown off the books and their kids can just starve. Or a reasonable person would say it's time we put them all together, made everyone pay something and minimized the most obscene profits every seen. The insurance industry. It's a very ugly world you live in. VERY UGLY

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21683 Jun 23, 2012
Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.
What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.
You might want to take a shot at that education yourself. My education may be dated but it's not worthless and I do know the difference is socialism and a single socialist program. The entire world of industrialized nations, conservative or liberal have socialized medicine. It's not a disease that is to be avoided. We are the ONLY nation of any stature whatsoever without socialized medicine. To claim it is socialism is a straw man argument which brands all of the nation as a socialist nation if a single program is socialized. We have socialist programs throughout our government. Some work, some don't. All need to be purged of corruption. Just as every conservative program does, as every moderate program does. That's not the issue. The issue is that the working class poor of the USA should have access to affordable health care. You really need to stop stealing the Fem Nazi term "straw man" accusation. It's the "insult" of ignorance. And when you have a double masters in both Business Administration and Political Science, however dated it may be, then you lecture me on straw man arguments. Until then you are just showing your ass.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21684 Jun 23, 2012
Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.
What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.
I always find it telling when someone like you ignore the bile and hysteria of one just like you in Packing Heat but throw your "Straw man" BS at anyone not an extremist right winger. Then claim to be a moderate. It's not my way or the highway. It's any way but the far right and far left ways. Because they are the same ways. But you never have anything argumentative to say to anyone just like you. Just like the fem nazi's with their own. You people give yourselves away. You never criticize your own. I was with both the extreme left and right. You war with everyone except the far right. You are what you cannot bring yourself to oppose.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21685 Jun 23, 2012
coorection: I war with both the extremist left and right.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#21686 Jun 23, 2012
Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.
What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.
==========

Your argument on "arguements"[sic] is argumentally overstated.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

#21687 Jun 23, 2012
Dusty,
If you don't like being called on your strawman arguements...quit using them. Debate issues on their own merit. Agree or disagree...and state your position...don't state mine. I've got the time....so let's go line by line again so we can get it perfectly clear.
"You might want to take a shot at that education yourself. My education may be dated but it's not worthless and I do know the difference is socialism and a single socialist program."
You should by now, and your opinion on an issue is welcome...but not the attitude your point of view is the only right point of view.
"The entire world of industrialized nations, conservative or liberal have socialized medicine. It's not a disease that is to be avoided."
I haven't avoided it at all.
"To claim it is socialism is a straw man argument which brands all of the nation as a socialist nation if a single program is socialized."
This is where you are confused....socialized medicine is socialism...that's not a strawman arguement...it's fact. The second part of your statement where if someone declared a single socialized program made an entire nation socialist....would in fact be a strawman arguement. So you are technically correct...but I personally have never called our nation a socialist nation.
"We have socialist programs throughout our government. Some work, some don't. All need to be purged of corruption.Just as every conservative program does, as every moderate program does. That's not the issue."
I agree 100%.
"The issue is that the working class poor of the USA should have access to affordable health care."
I agree 100%. But access to affordable care is not in itself socialism...free is. The issue is that healthcare is "not" affordable to the working class poor. Why that is...is a debatable subject.
"You really need to stop stealing the Fem Nazi term "straw man" accusation. It's the "insult" of ignorance."
You need to understand what a strawman arguement is. It's not a liberal arguement nor a conservative arguement...it's a "type" of arguement. Generally people who use such arguements are ignorant....even though I am not calling you ignorant...except your ignorance of what is a strawman arguement.
"And when you have a double masters in both Business Administration and Political Science, however dated it may be, then you lecture me on straw man arguments."
Well Dusty...I find it hard to believe that someone who has double masters in Business Administration and Political Science doesn't understand the concept of strawman arguements. Most people learn it in high school....yet you base a lot of what you say on it....and deny it. A verb is a verb...a noun is a noun...a strawman arguement is a strawman arguement...it is what it is. It's not an opinion.
"Until then you are just showing your ass."
Now that is an opinion....yours....but an opinion nonetheless.
Packing Heat

United States

#21688 Jun 23, 2012
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you're not interested. You want the veterans over at the understaffed and incompetent veterans administration. You want seniors trying to find a doctor who will take medicare and they pay a third of their social security for plan B and a supplement. You want the working class poor to not have any medical at all and you want all illegals deported and all welfare people thrown off the books and their kids can just starve. Or a reasonable person would say it's time we put them all together, made everyone pay something and minimized the most obscene profits every seen. The insurance industry. It's a very ugly world you live in. VERY UGLY


That's correct, I am not remotely interested.
Negative effects of socialized medicine.
1. People take advantage of things when they're 'free'. But it isn't really free. It's paid for with taxes.
2. Wait times increase drastically.
3. The availability of doctors and hospital beds decreases.

The only way to counteract that is to limit availability and limit service, or magically get more doctors and hospitals. Eventually, as history has shown, demand on the system exceeds the funding. This leads to health care operating like every other government program, requiring rationing or more funding.

Instead of doctors and patients determining what's best the government takes on that responsibility. As part of the rationing they decide what procedures or medications are necessary like Obama's 15 member Death Panel. NO THANKS!

Japan is moving away from socialism. Canada is re-examining their socialized health care. There are doctor protests in many European countries over the lack of pay. England is facing an epidemic lack of dentists.

There's a reason why thousands of people from all over the world come to the United States for their medical care, it's available, on their terms, when they want it. Health care, between Medicare and direct subsidies, is already 1/3 of the US federal budget. We should find out in the next week or so the SCOTUS's decision. GOOD-BYE OBAMACARE LOL.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

#21689 Jun 23, 2012
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I always find it telling when someone like you ignore the bile and hysteria of one just like you in Packing Heat but throw your "Straw man" BS at anyone not an extremist right winger. Then claim to be a moderate. It's not my way or the highway. It's any way but the far right and far left ways. Because they are the same ways. But you never have anything argumentative to say to anyone just like you. Just like the fem nazi's with their own. You people give yourselves away. You never criticize your own. I was with both the extreme left and right. You war with everyone except the far right. You are what you cannot bring yourself to oppose.
Dusty,

I don't come here to war with anyone. I agree with some of the things the "femi nazi" stated. I agree with some of the things Heat says. I try to look for things I can agree on and less of what I don't. I didn't argue with Minute on everything I didn't like...nor do I argue with Heat on the same. I don't call you out on your opinions...you call me and I defend myself. I agree with you probably more than anyone else...yet because I don't fight with every single member of the forum I'm your enemy. I understand being in the middle will cause me to catch flak from both ends...and frankly I don't care.

I'm more interested in the far left and far right than I am in a moderate (like yourself) point of view...because I like to think of potential solutions to issues....and for any solution to ever be reality it has to appease both sides. This is why I like Heat and Minute...because they are far right and far left.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

#21690 Jun 23, 2012
DustyOutlaw wrote:
coorection: I war with both the extremist left and right.
Dusty,

I think you war with everyone.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#21691 Jun 23, 2012
Who Is Obama wrote:
Dusty,
If you don't like being called on your strawman arguements...quit using them. Debate issues on their own merit. Agree or disagree...and state your position...don't state mine. I've got the time....so let's go line by line again so we can get it perfectly clear.
"You might want to take a shot at that education yourself. My education may be dated but it's not worthless and I do know the difference is socialism and a single socialist program."
You should by now, and your opinion on an issue is welcome...but not the attitude your point of view is the only right point of view.
"The entire world of industrialized nations, conservative or liberal have socialized medicine. It's not a disease that is to be avoided."
I haven't avoided it at all.
"To claim it is socialism is a straw man argument which brands all of the nation as a socialist nation if a single program is socialized."
This is where you are confused....socialized medicine is socialism...that's not a strawman arguement...it's fact. The second part of your statement where if someone declared a single socialized program made an entire nation socialist....would in fact be a strawman arguement. So you are technically correct...but I personally have never called our nation a socialist nation.
"We have socialist programs throughout our government. Some work, some don't. All need to be purged of corruption.Just as every conservative program does, as every moderate program does. That's not the issue."
I agree 100%.
"The issue is that the working class poor of the USA should have access to affordable health care."
I agree 100%. But access to affordable care is not in itself socialism...free is. The issue is that healthcare is "not" affordable to the working class poor. Why that is...is a debatable subject.
"You really need to stop stealing the Fem Nazi term "straw man" accusation. It's the "insult" of ignorance."
You need to understand what a strawman arguement is. It's not a liberal arguement nor a conservative arguement...it's a "type" of arguement. Generally people who use such arguements are ignorant....even though I am not calling you ignorant...except your ignorance of what is a strawman arguement.
"And when you have a double masters in both Business Administration and Political Science, however dated it may be, then you lecture me on straw man arguments."
Well Dusty...I find it hard to believe that someone who has double masters in Business Administration and Political Science doesn't understand the concept of strawman arguements. Most people learn it in high school....yet you base a lot of what you say on it....and deny it. A verb is a verb...a noun is a noun...a strawman arguement is a strawman arguement...it is what it is. It's not an opinion.
"Until then you are just showing your ass."
Now that is an opinion....yours....but an opinion nonetheless.
==========
There is no such thing as a "strawman arguement"[sic]. Why do you refuse to stop stating it? That shows inability to modify an extreme position.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21692 Jun 23, 2012
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
That's correct, I am not remotely interested.
Negative effects of socialized medicine.
1. People take advantage of things when they're 'free'. But it isn't really free. It's paid for with taxes.
2. Wait times increase drastically.
3. The availability of doctors and hospital beds decreases.
The only way to counteract that is to limit availability and limit service, or magically get more doctors and hospitals. Eventually, as history has shown, demand on the system exceeds the funding. This leads to health care operating like every other government program, requiring rationing or more funding.
Instead of doctors and patients determining what's best the government takes on that responsibility. As part of the rationing they decide what procedures or medications are necessary like Obama's 15 member Death Panel. NO THANKS!
Japan is moving away from socialism. Canada is re-examining their socialized health care. There are doctor protests in many European countries over the lack of pay. England is facing an epidemic lack of dentists.
There's a reason why thousands of people from all over the world come to the United States for their medical care, it's available, on their terms, when they want it. Health care, between Medicare and direct subsidies, is already 1/3 of the US federal budget. We should find out in the next week or so the SCOTUS's decision. GOOD-BYE OBAMACARE LOL.
This whole post is drivel. Pure unadulterated DRIVEL.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#21693 Jun 23, 2012
Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
Dusty,
I don't come here to war with anyone. I agree with some of the things the "femi nazi" stated. I agree with some of the things Heat says. I try to look for things I can agree on and less of what I don't. I didn't argue with Minute on everything I didn't like...nor do I argue with Heat on the same. I don't call you out on your opinions...you call me and I defend myself. I agree with you probably more than anyone else...yet because I don't fight with every single member of the forum I'm your enemy. I understand being in the middle will cause me to catch flak from both ends...and frankly I don't care.
I'm more interested in the far left and far right than I am in a moderate (like yourself) point of view...because I like to think of potential solutions to issues....and for any solution to ever be reality it has to appease both sides. This is why I like Heat and Minute...because they are far right and far left.
You may have convinced yourself you're a moderate but you're not. You cannot possibly be a moderate and defend the ultra rich as you do in the name of "free enterprise". There is no such thing as free enterprise in the USA today. Socialized medicine is the ONLY possible way for this country to not sink into third world status in the area of health care. Insurance companies are among those who are suffocating the middle class. My way or the highway? How about SURVIVAL? You want to "debate" these issues as though they are debatable. You claim to be a business owner and yet you seem to know nothing about how business works. How the corruption attached to the insurance industry/medical complex works. Big business is suffocating the life out of America with intent. And you want to talk about "straw man" arguments and "my way or the highway". This is not "my way". This is the only logical, mathematical solution to one of the worst problems facing the USA. Moderates are the most educated, intelligent, centered, rational people left in this country and there aren't that many left. As America is purposefully dumbed down the extremists of both left and right grow while the puppet masters get the stupids to support their own demise. The dumber they are the easier they fall. You got a bunch of semi literate idiots like Packing Heat all over the landscape in America who might as well be hillbillies in Appalachia for all the stupidity they believe.

And you, as you say, find something of value in their rhetoric and dogma. You're no moderate. You're a right winger posing as a moderate. No one who is rational can not see the extremists for what they are. Socialized medicine is an absolute must as part of what it will take to save the middle class. And you don't even see it. That's not "my way or the highway". It's the GLARING REALITY OF TRUTH.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

#21694 Jun 23, 2012
WMCOL wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
Your argument on "arguements"[sic] is argumentally overstated.
Sad it has to be that way.

By the way...I noticed your good with statistics. I need some numbers, but first I have to figure out how to break it down into managable brackets. Basically I need to know the total annual cost of entitlements not including social security which shouldn't even be considered such. Some of the problem is going to be finding the right numbers with healthcare and subsidies.

I'll get back with you when I can break it down.

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