Keep hiding still waiting why is 20% sterling for Dayton children?<quoted text>
Except for question 1 which I don't see how, perhaps that is your question to answer
The rest of them are what the Board of Education have accomplished since January 2012.
Thanks for taking the time to point those things out.
Pretty impressive list of accomplishments in support of our kids.
There are 32019 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:
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#24343 Apr 20, 2013
#24344 Apr 20, 2013
This is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
All of the above information is based upon raw scoring and the number of questions answered correctly by the students. All of the above information is based upon percentages of correct answers students answered.
What is shocking is that not a single person has refuted either the veracity of these numbers nor the interpretation of them.
These final numbers represent the culmination of 8 years worth of math education in our system. The numbers for each preceding grades get progressively worse each year from third grade onward. I do not believe that our students are becoming progressively dumber each year, or that all of our teachers are becoming progressively less able each year. I do believe that the system which we have devolved into is no longer serving the student, but rather a system.
That system is categorically failing our children, regardless of where they attend school. More money will not make neither good or bad teachers better.
When my wife was cleaning out her parent's home she came across her father's algebra notebook from 1938. Inside were the same equations my son now solves 75 years later. Math has not changed, 2+2 still equal 4. Only the system has changed and it is failing our children.
#24345 Apr 20, 2013
No sir you are failing our children. You and your politician wannabes are not allowing the great parents and teachers to educate the children of Springboro. You clearly have a political agenda to destroy the SEA. You clearly have no idea the difference between percentile and percentage. You won't answer a question when somebody asks you to do so. You stated that Math hasn't changed in 75 years, you're right, 2+2=4, what's changed is the political wannabes you associate with who want absolute power and hate unions because they donate to democratic campaigns. If unions are gone Republicans keep getting elected. This country has no clue what compromise means anymore because of both parties. Until we regain the ability to compromise nothing will ever get accomplished, and the children and society as a whole will suffer.
#24346 Apr 20, 2013
The children in Dayton Public Schools are being cheated to an even larger degree than our own.
1023 kids took the same OAA Math test in the Dayton Public Schools, 9 scored 74% or better.
You cannot tell me that the other 1014 children are just stupid.
You cannot tell me that the teachers in the Dayton Public School system are that incompetent, they are, after all, amongst the highest paid in the area.
You cannot tell me that the parents of 1014 all could care less.
You cannot tell me that just because someone comes from a poor background they cannot learn.
In the state of Florida a recent census of schools and where children attended revealed that 43% of the states 1.5 million school age children attended schools that were not the neighborhood public school. Recent school choice voucher programs have accounted for roughly 10% of that 43%
The point of the matter is that they system we are playing with is a union rigged game for the benefit of the union, not the children or society at large. When given choice people abandon the public school systems to pursue better options for their children.
When one looks at the numbers that are being produced by that school system it is small wonder.
We cannot, and must not, allow our school's system to become the GM of government programs. As anyone who has resided in Dayton for any amount of time, the number of lost union jobs in the past 10 years has been staggering. Many former union members who once enjoyed jobs that paid $18-$35/hour are working for fractions of that amount today.
Most of those jobs were automobile oriented. But the jobs did not simply disappear, consumers voted with their wallets what they would accept and what they would not. The consumer voted and those automotive jobs went to the non union manufacturers.
In the state of Florida the exodus has begun, let us strive to keep Ohio from following suit.
#24347 Apr 20, 2013
The Dayton Public Schools had 1023 take the same 8th grade OAA Math test our children did in 2012
9 children scored 74-100%
79 children scored 56-73%
935 children scored 55% and below.
#24348 Apr 20, 2013
If the board of ed has a $5 million surplus, why can't they give the staff a raise for one year?
They gave all the administrators that they love a raise. The super is getting $40K more than the last guy. The same with all the central office admins and the assistant principals they hired. They are even hiring MORE central office administrators for next year.
So if they can hire all those people to push papers and they have a $5 million surplus, why not give the staff a raise for one year?
#24350 Apr 20, 2013
Taxpayers would say, that since the largest cost to taxpayers
in local government is compensation packages, why not tackle this growing cost problem?
Over the last two decades, compensation package increases in state and local governments across Ohio have outpaced inflation year after year. As Ohio's private sector cratered in the last decade, the ability of taxpyaers to fund those high compensation costs has become untenable. Taxpayers never get a break from the heavy financial burden of forced unionism, that now has Ohioans broke.
Out of work, out of money, out of pity for the public service worker, that has it so good with job security and secure future of retirement and benefits.
#24351 Apr 21, 2013
Buckeye Taxpayers would say "Liar Liar Pants on Fire" to the Corona California blogger making the UNTRUE statement "If unions are gone Republicans keep getting elected?" During the past quarter-century reign of "the politics of forced unionism" rigidly enforced by Ohio's outdated 1983 collective bargaining laws, the Republican politicians have ruled in the Governnor's mansion for at least eighteen of those years. So it is a proven lie in Ohio politics, that "if unions are GONE, Republicans keep getting elected." Would you like to acknowledge that you made a boo-boo and offer an apology to Buckeye taxpayers.
Truth is that no matter which "political party" is in elected official power in Ohio, the Taxpayers NEVER get a break from the heavy financial burden of Ohio's state law of forced unionism.
Buckeye Taxpayers know, based on the last 20 years, raising taxes is always the choice selected by school districts. They only cut programs and staff as a threat to get residents to raise taxes. As for REALIGNING the big costly compensation packages, it NEVER enters the conversation.
Truth is, with our current Ohio government's BELIEF that government should pay salaries at a level competitive with the private sector, this UNFORTUNATE and COSTLY outcome of FORCED UNIONISM is not a surprise. Public service IS supposed to be
"sacrificial; meaning, you sacrifice PRIVATE SECTOR pay to serve a larger cause--public service workers SACRIFICE higher pay in the private sector for JOB SECURITY and A DECENT PENSION.(Neither of these securities are guaranteed for Buckeye Taxpayers working in the private sector). Today, both political appointees and bureaucrats get gold-plated pay and benefits largely non-existent in the private sector. The answer is NOT to increase the tax burden on Buckeye Taxpayers still possessing jobs; The answer is not to promote a continuous stream of school levies increasing local taxes on homeowners. The answer is for local governments
(including school district) to REDUCE SPENDING on salaries and compensation pakcages of public service workers (including union employees of Springboro school district.)
#24352 Apr 21, 2013
Before I post anything good in this thread today, will somebody pick up my meds at CVS?
#24353 Apr 21, 2013
That was actually pretty original. LOL, smile on my face
#24354 Apr 21, 2013
They will have enough money to recycle back through the compensation system as some 28 individuals take advantage of the changing retirement program. This money should free up $500-$700,00 dollars for raises for those that deserve them. This will be at the discretion of the Superintendent of course. If the Superintendent chooses to use that money elsewhere it would be up to his discretion.
This is how business with large employee bases plan for compensation, recognizing turnover, personnel needs, and subsequent market conditions for incoming hires. Money that was once paid to highly compensated individuals becomes seed money for new hires and existing employee compensation. No new money is thus required within the system.
The UNION PROPOSAL plan seemingly wishes to raise the base cost of doing business as a whole requiring MASSIVE INCREASES in the cost of running our schools.
Buried in the SEA Proposal are clauses 15.06(a-c)
Here the union attempts to stipulate maximum class sizes, and IF THOSE CLASS SIZES ARE EXCEEDED THEY WANT MORE PAY on top of their raises.
Example, if a K-3 class exceeds more than 20 kids they want $10 per day extra for each kid.
Current average class size in K-3 currently is about 23, they are asking for 3 kids x $10/day x 185 day school year =$5550 additional for doing the same job they are doing today
$5550 is a 10.3% raise based on the median salary.
This is IN ADDITION TO THE UNION REQESTED 5.6% base salary increase
IN ADDITION TO THE UNION REQUESTED 2 steps back pay (5% each) OR 10% increase for both years.
IN ADDITION TO THE UNION REQUESTED to a new step salary increase (another 5%).
Grand total 31%. pay increase for grades K-3
That would take a new teacher hourly wage from $30.82/hour up to $44.66/hour
32% pay increase
Grades 4-5. The overload payment there kicks in for classes > 22 students. The average class size there is about 26, do the math - an additional $7400 per year for the job they are currently doing.
A teacher with 10 years experience hourly wage goes from $48.51/hour up to $66.43/hour
27% pay increase
Grades 6-12 get more interesting. There if a teachers see more than 144 kids a day they want $2/kid/day for each over the limit.
Example of class size is 25 kids and a teacher teaches 7 periods each day = 175 students each day
175 kids -144 allowable = 31 kid overload x $2 x 185 =$11,470 per year.
A teacher with 20 years experience hourly wage goes from $53.20/hour up to $75.50/hour
30% pay increase.
Our top paid teachers would go from $66.71 up to $92.52/hour
The UNION PROPOSAL wants another to raise the districts annual payroll and retirement cost from roughly $30,000,000 per year to roughly $42,000,000.
Again, tell me who is underpaid at $30.82/hour,$48.51/hour, or $53.20/hour?
Employment, like life itself, is a conveyor belt that carries those who survive upwards until the end,
then the conveyor returns to the beginning to start someone else on the journey.
#24355 Apr 21, 2013
How many of these administrators getting a raise are already double dippers?
#24356 Apr 21, 2013
270 teachers x $2000 average raise would be $540,000. That is a 5% raise and more than most I know are getting. And not everybody deserves a raise. And getting paid that much more to do your job you are doing now is a joke. If you don't like it move over real workers will be more than happy to take it and work here. And $30,$50, or $60 an hour looks pretty good to me. Where do I sign up for indoctrination?
#24357 Apr 21, 2013
Really you do not know how to go about doing this. Go get a teaching certificate and start applying for a job. Apparently based on your comments you must have a GED or HS. So looks like four plus years of college for you. See you in four years or so. But just remember you still need to get hired.
#24358 Apr 21, 2013
Still waiting for answer why 20% would be "sterling" for Dayton children? Remember "sterling" was what YOU said.
#24359 Apr 21, 2013
Genius, it would be a 22 fold increase in achievement from where they are now.
9 kids out of 1023 scored a grade better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math. That means they had 9/10 of 1% score better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math.
A 22 fold increase would mean that another 195 kids got the education their taxpayers were funding.
Now Genius, what do we do with a failing system that is not providing the education the taxpayers are funding in the city of Springboro?
In Dayton, we have virtually no say in how they operate.
In Springboro, we do have a voice that can cry out for us to deliver an actual education to the 2000 plus children who are now not receiving the one the taxpayers have funded.
We can and should demand better of a system that pays our teachers $30-$66/hour. The results we saw in 2012 are not uncommon.
2012 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2011 79% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2010 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
This is a systemic problem that cheats all children regardless of race, creed, color, or place of national origin.
Ms. Cook has seen these results repeated during her tenure as Principal at the Junior HIgh, how long can we tolerate this lack of actual learning and leadership?
Here we have three straight years of documented failure of 4 out of 5 children in Math. Go back to 2008 and you will see the same level of achievement.
Would you have us believe all of these children are not very bright in Math, our teachers are incompetent, our parents do not care, our children are not good test takers, or the test is too hard,?
The truth is the Emperor has no clothes.
The system and methods we are using now do not work. If they did, the children would pass the test with real scores that reflect actual learning.
These test are not MIT tough entrance exams, they are pretty basic and elemental. They even let you use calculators and give you the formulas you need.
What is the definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing the same way over and over and expecting different results each time.
Our system is insane and we cannot waste another year of our children's education on repeating the same program.
#24360 Apr 22, 2013
Do you know of anyone that goes to college for 4 years and comes out making $60 per hour? I know of no one but a teacher. That is why we have so many applicants for teaching positions. Good money great schedule and the have a family life that private sector employees don't get. Retirement unmatched by any other system, benefits unmatched in the private sector.
#24361 Apr 22, 2013
WOW you need to check your facts. You have stated things here that are totally untrue. "is getting $40K more than the last guy" totally wrong. The last guy got pick-up for 10,000 a year that last guy got $105,000,so it may be simple math but just to start the comparison 105 + 10= 115, this guy gets $130,000. Now look at all the other parts of the contract. This new guy actually works.
#24362 Apr 22, 2013
Oh we all know what "compromise" means to you. We are all well aware who this is and why you use the words "Compromise", because it suits you. You wish to make all of us sympathetic to your cause knowing full well that this so called "compromise" is useful to those that buy it as a kinder, way of letting your freedoms go out the window. Your compromise means, "Let me step on your rights, kill your freedom, take your children, in the nicest way possible of course and you won't feel anything because I have made you to feel good about it. Does anyone else picture the joker now?
Your compromise is hitting deaf ears now that we woke up. Guess what buddy, how about you "compromise" now? Now, Hand us your children, your freedom, your liberty, ya know in the name of compromise.
You can take your compromise and _____ it.
Ask Ed Wade and Mayor Agenbroad about how this works, they never net a tax hike they did not like. Ya know, in the name of compromise and all.
#24363 Apr 22, 2013
You need to define your terms for the rest of us who are not well versed in union lingo.
For instance, what is pick-up?
Otherwise it may as well be written in greek.
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