Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31932 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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borobeef

Cleveland, OH

#24053 Apr 9, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish you had actually provided something of substance rather than blather. Whine, whine, whine, say nothing of import, and whine some more.
Please inform us, the great unwashed, what this board has done that is so horrible for our children?
Held people accountable for doing the jobs they are paid to perform?
Investing in a technology program that addresses the future and provides tangible results for the money spent?
Spent more on text books for our children?
Discovered the ruse that was pay to participate and reduced its costs by 30% and then gave the families that chose to participate another venue by which they could reduce it by another $100?
Hired a new Superintendent that is on the ball?
Hired a new Curriculum Director who is top notch?
Hired an actual Human Resources person who knows what she is doing?
Turned the cameras back on so the community could see what is going on and make up their own minds?
Pushed through a transparency program that now exists on our school website so everyone in the community can see what they see?
Etc, etc, etc
No which of those tasks do you wish to see undone?
I have one response. If the Board is behind the teachers and the education why doesn't Mr David Petroni send his school age children to the very schools he claims to do so much for!
borobeef

Cleveland, OH

#24054 Apr 9, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
And while you are whining, I am afraid I have not heard word one from you about the 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers of this community are funding.
I hear not one word on how we can make this system better for all involved. This is not a zero sum game that force us to take from one to advance another.
Where are the union proposals to rectify this issue of issues?
Here's a proposal. Instead of logging onto topix to b!$ch about how the schools and teachers are failing your children spend some time studying with these kids. There is work outside of the classroom that needs to take place as well. The "overpriced babysitters" that you so disrespect can't perform miracles - especially when you're too self absorbed to invest in your own kids. Did your parents study with you?
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

#24055 Apr 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
And while you are whining, I am afraid I have not heard word one from you about the 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers of this community are funding.
I hear not one word on how we can make this system better for all involved. This is not a zero sum game that force us to take from one to advance another.
Where are the union proposals to rectify this issue of issues?
And I'm afraid I have not heard one answer to my question - have you ever sat in a classroom to see what really goes on? Clearly that answer is no....walk a mile in someone's shoes....
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24056 Apr 10, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a proposal. Instead of logging onto topix to b!$ch about how the schools and teachers are failing your children spend some time studying with these kids. There is work outside of the classroom that needs to take place as well. The "overpriced babysitters" that you so disrespect can't perform miracles - especially when you're too self absorbed to invest in your own kids. Did your parents study with you?
My father had a job that he went to 6 days a week for fifty years. My mother also had a job, raising 8 kids who were one or two years apart. It always puts a smile on my face when people ask me if my mother worked, she had 8 kids, of course she worked.

What my parents did not do was help us with our homework, that was our responsibility. It must have worked, all eight of us went to college and seven graduated.

In regards to work outside the classroom, the contract in question only calls for 7.25 hours per day -.5 hours for lunch -.75 hours for planning period. School itself runs from (for Intermediate, Junior High, and High School) from 7:30-2:20.

With the ubiquitous advent of the portable computing device, more and more people are taking work home each night and on the weekends. Telecommuting has brought the unwanted side effect of never really being away from work. That, you will find, is how many in the other half live 365 days per year, year in and year out. It is a part of the job that you accept when you accept the job.
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

#24057 Apr 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
My father had a job that he went to 6 days a week for fifty years. My mother also had a job, raising 8 kids who were one or two years apart. It always puts a smile on my face when people ask me if my mother worked, she had 8 kids, of course she worked.
What my parents did not do was help us with our homework, that was our responsibility. It must have worked, all eight of us went to college and seven graduated.
In regards to work outside the classroom, the contract in question only calls for 7.25 hours per day -.5 hours for lunch -.75 hours for planning period. School itself runs from (for Intermediate, Junior High, and High School) from 7:30-2:20.
With the ubiquitous advent of the portable computing device, more and more people are taking work home each night and on the weekends. Telecommuting has brought the unwanted side effect of never really being away from work. That, you will find, is how many in the other half live 365 days per year, year in and year out. It is a part of the job that you accept when you accept the job.
And again I ask - have you been in a classroom lately?????? You not answering the question is of course, an answer.

And yes, a lot of people take work home. That is not in dispute. The point is teachers do too. Everyone just assumes it is 7.25 hours of work and that is it. That's the argument for saying they don't work as much as everyone else, isn't it? Its simply not the reality. You need to deal in reality, not presumption when speaking of work hours.

So your argument is that you would like for the teachers to only work the contract hours stated? What if the contract said 9 hours per day - would that make you happy? 10? I like teachers that work as many hours as it takes to get their work done. Do some only work the 7.25? You bet. But the majority work over that, I can guarantee you.
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

#24058 Apr 10, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
I have one response. If the Board is behind the teachers and the education why doesn't Mr David Petroni send his school age children to the very schools he claims to do so much for!
Your response is just lame and reeks of a personal vendetta. Just Watching has brought up quite a number of valid points and the only issue you can discuss is how Petroni decides to educate his children?

I personally don't care where he sends his kids or how they are educated. The fact is, Petroni should be praised for volunteering to do a job that most of us would never choose to do.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24059 Apr 10, 2013
walk a mile wrote:
<quoted text>
And again I ask - have you been in a classroom lately?????? You not answering the question is of course, an answer.
And yes, a lot of people take work home. That is not in dispute. The point is teachers do too. Everyone just assumes it is 7.25 hours of work and that is it. That's the argument for saying they don't work as much as everyone else, isn't it? Its simply not the reality. You need to deal in reality, not presumption when speaking of work hours.
So your argument is that you would like for the teachers to only work the contract hours stated? What if the contract said 9 hours per day - would that make you happy? 10? I like teachers that work as many hours as it takes to get their work done. Do some only work the 7.25? You bet. But the majority work over that, I can guarantee you.
Yes is the answer to your question. And I would be more than happy to visit a few more and would encourage all of the parents to begin making unannounced visits to the classrooms of this district.

What is the majority 166 out of 330? How do you quantify that anyway?

The truth is that a teacher works less than 2/3 the number of days the normal full time employee works in America. The truth is many people take work home at night via the computer to which we are now seemingly permanently attached.

It is a great job, great hours, rewarding product outcomes, great pay, and greater benefits than most of the rest of us enjoy.

Do you seriously think that people will view this as the living hell you attempt to portray?

If indeed you do view it as such, get out.

Do something else, a person with your obvious talent will have little problem replacing this position.
Worth Repeating

Cincinnati, OH

#24060 Apr 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
While we discuss reform, let us all not forget who that reform effects the most, our children. All of them deserve more than what we are giving them now.
They may cry about getting an education today, but will thank you many years down the road in ways you cannot begin to fathom today.
See page 12 for key
http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C ...
6th grade 2011 OAA Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands
(This represents Springboro Class of ’17)
READING
Advanced.......76%-100%
Accelerated.....61%-75%
Proficient.........35%-60%
If a student was able to answer 17 out of 49 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in READING.
In 6th grade READING, Springboro had 172 students out of 502 students (34%) fall in the Proficient or below category
______
MATH
Advanced.......68%-100%
Accelerated....58%-67%
Proficient........40%-57%
If a student was able to answer 20 out of 50 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in MATH.
In 6th grade MATH, Springboro had 127 students our of 502 students ( 25%) falling the Proficient or below category
__________
7th grade 2011 OAA Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands
(This is Springboro’s Class of ’16)
READING
Advanced 81%-100%
Accelerated 66%-80%
Proficient 45%-65%(45%=Proficient)
In 7th grade READING, Springboro had 172 students out of 413 students (42%) fall in the Proficient or below category
_____
MATH
Advanced 72%-100%
Accelerated 58%-71%
Proficient 32%-57%(32%=Proficient)
In 7th grade MATH, Springboro had 140 students out of 413 students (34%) fall in the Proficient or below categories.
8th grade 2011 OAA Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands
(Springboro Class of ’15)
READING
Advanced.......83%-100%
Accelerated.....71%-82%
Proficient.........48%-70%
If a student was able to answer 23 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in READING.
In 8th grade READING, Springboro had 136 students out of 443 students (31%) fall in the Proficient or below category.
MATH
Advanced.......78%-100%
Accelerated....61%-77%
Proficient........35%-60%
If a student was able to answer 16 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in MATH.
In 8th grade MATH, Springboro had 203 students out of 443 students (46%) fall the Proficient or below category.
__________
Ohio Graduation Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2012 test
READING
Advanced.......79%-100%
Accelerated.....63.5%-78%
Proficient.........40.6%-63.4%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in READING.
Of the 380 Springboro sophomores who took the READING portion of the Ohio Graduation Test, 88 students (23%) fell in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
MATH
Advanced.......75%-100%
Accelerated....61%-74%
Proficient........42%-60%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in MATH.
Of the 380 Springboro sophomores who took the MATH portion of the Ohio Graduation Test, 40 students (10%) fell in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
They further REDUCED the number of questions correct that you needed to reach the various achievement levels down a question from the 2011 already low levels.
Thank you for spreading the word to parents and community members that Education in Springboro is all about our student's individual achievements; not about job security for union employees. As parents and school district voters, we greatly appreciate the leading role that our school employees have in our children's classroom education. Now we need the help of our Springboro Schools Superintendent AND his Staff, to educate our classroom teachers to support, and work within, the school district's new philosophy of our children's first budgeting reforms.
Do You Understand

Cincinnati, OH

#24061 Apr 10, 2013
So exactly why are the anti-children first; pro-levy supporters so strongly oppossing our school district's board leadership? As stated in an earlier post on this blog, before Kelly Kohls got on this school board our district projected a $30 million deficit. Now, we project a $5 million surplus after replacing many things taken from the children during the levy campaigns. We have now added many curriculum and safety measures for the children of our district. All of this without new money. What changed? Our new BOE majority have become much more efficient, holding people accountable, and making all decisions using what is good for education and our children as first priority.

Now, WHY would anyone oppose the board's decisions doing what is good for education and our children first?

Could it be .....There are embedded organized units that desperately need to prove that our reform-minded board members are wrong, and that more money is imperative, because they see a collapse of THEIR status quo system, IF it is proven that it is not all "about the
money" after all. IF the easy flow of new levy money stops, then this organized OPPOSITION is no longer necessary, and no longer maintains control of education and more importantly, THE MONEY.
Do you understand?
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

#24062 Apr 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes is the answer to your question. And I would be more than happy to visit a few more and would encourage all of the parents to begin making unannounced visits to the classrooms of this district.
What is the majority 166 out of 330? How do you quantify that anyway?
The truth is that a teacher works less than 2/3 the number of days the normal full time employee works in America. The truth is many people take work home at night via the computer to which we are now seemingly permanently attached.
It is a great job, great hours, rewarding product outcomes, great pay, and greater benefits than most of the rest of us enjoy.
Do you seriously think that people will view this as the living hell you attempt to portray?
If indeed you do view it as such, get out.
Do something else, a person with your obvious talent will have little problem replacing this position.
Again, not a teacher. And again, why is it that when people defend the teaching profession they MUST be a teacher? Wow.

Not portraying as a living hell at all. Just trying to point out the REALITIES that people seem to miss. And I know the REALITY because I have been in my childrens' classrooms many many times as they have progressed through the school system. I have seen that the planning period everyone seems to think teachers have a free 45 minutes to do whatever they please, they don't. And the paid lunch period really isn't sit around talking it up with their teacher pals, but sucking down a lumch in 5 minutes because you have kids in from recess finishing homework, doing projects, etc. Again, not porteying anything as a living hell as you describe, but portraying REALITY.

Now one thing we can agree on - more people should be encouraged to visit a classroom so they can see the REALITY of what occurs. And quite frankly, I would love for the district to create some kind of policy to encourage that more. The profession does seem to have great hours, decent pay, good benefits - but again, the point being - don't criticize something until you have walked a mile in other people's shoes. A lot of people seem to be experts in "teaching". Yet, I'll bet those same people would not be eager to criticize accountants, doctors, race car drivers. Man, those accountants have it made. Only have to work really hard about 2 months out of the year around tax time. I wouldn't criticize them because....I have no idea what they really do!

To answer your question - a majority to me would be 219 out of 330.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#24063 Apr 10, 2013
poundsand wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response is just lame and reeks of a personal vendetta. Just Watching has brought up quite a number of valid points and the only issue you can discuss is how Petroni decides to educate his children?
I personally don't care where he sends his kids or how they are educated. The fact is, Petroni should be praised for volunteering to do a job that most of us would never choose to do.
No, we have a board member who is changing everything about our schools but doesn't have any skin in the game. His decisions strongly affect my children but his kids aren't even in the schools he holds sway over!
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

#24064 Apr 10, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we have a board member who is changing everything about our schools but doesn't have any skin in the game. His decisions strongly affect my children but his kids aren't even in the schools he holds sway over!
As stated above... before Kelly Kohls and Petroni, etc., got on this school board our district projected a $30 million deficit.

Now, we project a $5 million surplus after replacing many things taken from the children during the 'sky is falling' union led levy campaigns.

We have now added many curriculum and safety measures for the children of our district. All of this without new money. What changed? Our new BOE majority have become much more efficient, holding people accountable, and making all decisions using what is good for education and our children as first priority.

Now, WHY would YOU or anyone oppose the board's decisions doing what is good for education and our children first?

Don't just spout off personal opinions. Prove to those that read this blog how this is affecting your poor children in a negative way.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24066 Apr 10, 2013
walk a mile wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, not a teacher. And again, why is it that when people defend the teaching profession they MUST be a teacher? Wow.
Not portraying as a living hell at all. Just trying to point out the REALITIES that people seem to miss. And I know the REALITY because I have been in my childrens' classrooms many many times as they have progressed through the school system. I have seen that the planning period everyone seems to think teachers have a free 45 minutes to do whatever they please, they don't. And the paid lunch period really isn't sit around talking it up with their teacher pals, but sucking down a lumch in 5 minutes because you have kids in from recess finishing homework, doing projects, etc. Again, not porteying anything as a living hell as you describe, but portraying REALITY.
Now one thing we can agree on - more people should be encouraged to visit a classroom so they can see the REALITY of what occurs. And quite frankly, I would love for the district to create some kind of policy to encourage that more. The profession does seem to have great hours, decent pay, good benefits - but again, the point being - don't criticize something until you have walked a mile in other people's shoes. A lot of people seem to be experts in "teaching". Yet, I'll bet those same people would not be eager to criticize accountants, doctors, race car drivers. Man, those accountants have it made. Only have to work really hard about 2 months out of the year around tax time. I wouldn't criticize them because....I have no idea what they really do!
To answer your question - a majority to me would be 219 out of 330.
219, did you survey the crowd to find out how many work 3 or 4 hours every night on school work?

These don't include the supplemental contracts do they, because they are getting paid to take on those responsibilities. And from what I have seen the amount of time some put in coaching for the amount they are reimbursed is nominal. Then again, a small percentage may be doing the coaching for the money, but vast majority perform the task for the sheer enjoyment of the job.

All jobs have drawbacks as well a positives, if you find the pay, hours, working conditions, clients, or benefits not to your standard or liking, pursue other options. There are a host of them out there, go find one that is right for you.

I would suspect that a newer teacher may have to do more planning than one who has been at this for 15-20 years. All are different and blanket statements seldom apply to everyone.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24067 Apr 10, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
I have one response. If the Board is behind the teachers and the education why doesn't Mr David Petroni send his school age children to the very schools he claims to do so much for!
And exactly how does that aid the 2000 plus children who are not receiving the education they deserve that our taxpayers fund each day?

Mr. Petroni's children seem to be doing fine but 2000 plus kids in our district are not doing as well.

Why don't we concentrate on why 2000 plus kids in this district are being left behind educationally each year?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24068 Apr 10, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we have a board member who is changing everything about our schools but doesn't have any skin in the game. His decisions strongly affect my children but his kids aren't even in the schools he holds sway over!
Mr. Miller doesn't have any children in the district any longer, does he?

Would the same level of vituperation and the same argument apply to him as well?
Really

Dayton, OH

#24069 Apr 10, 2013
poundsand wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response is just lame and reeks of a personal vendetta. Just Watching has brought up quite a number of valid points and the only issue you can discuss is how Petroni decides to educate his children?
I personally don't care where he sends his kids or how they are educated. The fact is, Petroni should be praised for volunteering to do a job that most of us would never choose to do.
How exactly is Petroni volunteering his time??? Every board member gets paid for each meeting they attend and since they have created so many extra committees they get even more money than before. How much did they get paid last year? How many meetings did they attend? Since we are such a transparent district let's show the total paid to the board?
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

#24071 Apr 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
219, did you survey the crowd to find out how many work 3 or 4 hours every night on school work?
These don't include the supplemental contracts do they, because they are getting paid to take on those responsibilities. And from what I have seen the amount of time some put in coaching for the amount they are reimbursed is nominal. Then again, a small percentage may be doing the coaching for the money, but vast majority perform the task for the sheer enjoyment of the job.
All jobs have drawbacks as well a positives, if you find the pay, hours, working conditions, clients, or benefits not to your standard or liking, pursue other options. There are a host of them out there, go find one that is right for you.
I would suspect that a newer teacher may have to do more planning than one who has been at this for 15-20 years. All are different and blanket statements seldom apply to everyone.
Supplemental contracts? Boy, you pull out all the stops to cling to your point, dont you. I actually surveyed 215 of the 219.....

And "you would suspect that a newer teacher?"....there ya go. You would suspect, which can also mean "assume" or "guess". Again, walk a mile in someone's shoes.......

But I do appreciate your last comments about blanket statements. Many on this blog and in this community just paint a broad brush to label many, when things may only apply to a limited few....
Let Freedom Ring

Cincinnati, OH

#24072 Apr 10, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we have a board member who is changing everything about our schools but doesn't have any skin in the game. His decisions strongly affect my children but his kids aren't even in the schools he holds sway over!
As Springboro parents and voters in this school district, we strongly disagree with your invalid criticism of this board member who... doesn't have any skin in the game?

Do you mean ...doesn't present children to the union teacher with a "dollar sign value" per head count enrolled in our public schools?

Isn't the "dollar" that you feel like you are "missing out on" the real concern here; and isn't the MONEY that the public schools aren't getting from "additional head count" your real complaint?
It really has nothing to do with the amazingly awesome leadership skills and financial expertise of the board member?
Who are you lurking around this blog, complaining about a parents rights in a free society to exercise parental rights to choose the education for their children that they, as parents, know is best for their child's needs and highest potential? What kind of mean-spirited person would think that our children are the "property rights" of the public schools, and that union teachers are the most important ones?

Well lurker, since it apprears that you feel that one should have children enrolled in local schools, before having input in decisions while investing their financial expertise in public service; would you then agree that only those with children enrolled in local schools should "invest" financially in local schools?

If local citizens are Taxed by our local school government; but not accepted as capable public servants in local government
(because of having no children enrolled in that local school).....would not that be "taxation with representation?"

God Bless America's Families...Let Freedom of School Choice Rule...!
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

#24073 Apr 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Miller doesn't have any children in the district any longer, does he?
Would the same level of vituperation and the same argument apply to him as well?
No, actually it wouldn't. Mr Miller had kids and they did go through the school district.

Mr Petroni has school-aged kids and chooses not to send his kids to an orgnizations he is 1 of 5 people that is in charge of.

Let's look at it this way...ever seen that Coke Zero commercial where the one guy is in his cubicle at the Coke Zero office and he is caught sneaking a sip of Pepsi? What if Mr Petroni was the CEP of Coke and he was going around town drinking Pepsi? Same thing as being a board member and choosing not to send your kids to that school.
Let Freedom Ring

Cincinnati, OH

#24074 Apr 10, 2013
Ultimately it has been America's political leadership that has underminded the values of our great nation, as politicians are more and more than willing to promise that government can solve all our problems.

When the government took responsibility for schools, some parents lost control of their children's education.

When the government took responsbility for the poor, voluntary charity from churches and community groups declined.

When government took responsibility for retirement security, many Americans quit saving.

When government and employers took responsibility for health insurance, individuals became dependent on others for their health care.

Now the traditional values of personal responsibility, hard work, frugality and saving, independence, family, and faith give way to government promises of more security, more income, more health care, more education... more!more! more!

Today, too many Americans look to the federal government to solve all problems for all people; and today, too many Americans have become gullible clients of politicians..... promising to solve every need.

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