Wind farms hit opposition

Full story: Baltimore Sun

Business and political leaders in Western Maryland's Garrett County are lining up against a proposal to allow the clearing of up to 400 mountaintop acres of state forest for the construction of 40-story wind ...
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reason

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#21
Jan 29, 2008
 
Why not place them offshore? What tabled the initial idea to do this?
dan seib --oakland md

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#22
Jan 29, 2008
 
I'm all for green energy. However, I think this bill is about money. It pits the area owners of mountain top properities against the State of Md. The turbines will produce rental fees to the owner of the land. I would rather see thoses fees go to private individuals and work their way through the local economy, providing a pay check for local business persons,(and taxes too, I might add) than to go straight into the State"s coffers. The local economy will recieve no benefit from the rental of public owned land.
don airey

Albany, NY

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#23
Jan 29, 2008
 
Fight it folks, fight it. That's what we are doing here in upstate New York. It's a lie.

Find out more by visiting:

www.schoharievalleywatch.org

Go to the related links. Explore. Research. Get educated and then fight them. It's all about MONEY. That's the only thing "Green".

Don
George

Bowie, MD

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#24
Jan 29, 2008
 
Wind turbines have absolutely no impact on oil use or its price. Only .3% of our region's electricity is produced from oil - see: http://www.pjm-eis.com/documents/downloads/20... . Nationally, less than 3% of US electricity comes from burning oil, and 5/6 of that quantity is comprised of the tarry residues left after distilling process (and this sludge has very little other use). The US exports far more oil than it uses to generate electricity.
George

Bowie, MD

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#25
Jan 29, 2008
 
There is a 600 MW wind project which recently was proposed off of Ocean City, MD; its deveopers are currently seeking an interconnection study with our grid (PJM). The developers of this very large offshore wind project applied to PJM on Dec. 28, 2007)- see: Queue #T122 - in: https://www.pjm.com/planning/project-queues/q... . If approved and built, this windplant likely would generate at least 4 times as much electricity as the 100 2-MW wind turbines which US Wind Force wants to build on ridgetops within MD's State Forests. It probably also would yield about 9 times as much power during summer afternoons as these proposed ridgetop wind turbines. Offshore winds are much stronger and blow more during afternoons - when our region's demand is greatest - as compared with ridgetop locations.
Glasnos

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#26
Jan 29, 2008
 
Paul Tupelo wrote:
<quoted text>Nuclear reactors use ground water to cool them. If you paid attention to the news and your surroundsing, you'd realize that in the south where they are in the midst of a drounght, nuclear plants will most likely be shut down. Water should be preserved for us to drink, not used to cool a nuclear reactor and become un-usable! Sometimes money need to be spent upfront top conserve money in the long run, just like hybrid cars, double/triple pain windows and other fors of energy efficeny. Do your research before you make stupid comments!
If you are going to comment on energy, it helps if you know a little about what you are talking about. Using ground water for cooling or heating is merely recycling the water, and using the somewhat constant underground temperature as a heat sump. The water is merely a conduit. You don't consume it.
Klaus

Gwynn Oak, MD

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#27
Jan 29, 2008
 
Nice discussion. However, many of the comments assume that it is either nuclear power (bad), or coal(worse) or wind (good). Hydro electric isn't even mentioned once. But this way of thinking overlooks that these sources have very different characteristics and are not easily interchangable supply sources. Nuclear power is great for covering baseline demand (the stable consistent demand) if one leaves out the problems with nuclear waste and all that. But beyond baseline demand there are peaks in demand and they require sources that can be reliably activated on a moments notice.(The grid needs perfect balance bewteen demand and supply at all times). Wind is not an easy source, friends, even if it looks good on paper. If you want to cover peak demand with wind you also need another standby source equal or larger than all your windpower for the case the wind doesn't blow. In Europe the Danes have lots of wind and the Norwegians have lots of hydro power (lakes on mountaintops where water can be let down huge pipes onto turbines during peak and be pumped back up during low demand). They agreed to team up, now that is a workable environmentally friendly network. http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/8/31/194...
But if you talk about wind power in isolation, its not green at all. So lets not get the wind power corporations ransack our mountain ridges before we have a real energy concept!!
WHB

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#28
Jan 29, 2008
 
If you want a safe, clean and reliable source of power then support nuclear. Leave the state forests alone.

Yea Robbie!
reason

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#29
Jan 30, 2008
 
Regardless of this discussion, I am convinced that we are heading in the right direction. Wind power may not be an efficient source (yet) but as technology improves and as they improve this (and other) alternitive energy sources it/they will become more efficient. The current methods (coal and nuclear) does significantly impact our environment but since this is considered "the norm" most people give it the blind eye. Look at the evolution of gasoline, how efficient was the first generation of combustion engines? Look at how far technology has gone with this concept. Wind energy may not be the solution now but with time it may be.
ruralminority

Farmington, PA

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#30
Jan 30, 2008
 
reason - if wind is not the solution why should we let the Governor force these things down our throat right now? And I will agree that Garrett County doesn't have a thriving economy like other counties in the state may have - the only thing going in Garrett County's favor right now is tourism - if these windmills go up tourism will surely go down - if tourism goes down the economy of Garrett County will suffer greatly. People visit Garrett County for it's scenic mountain vistas - destroy the scenic vistas and you'll destroy Garrett County's economy. It won't suprise me in the least at DNR's public hearings tonight in Garrett County and Thursday in Annapolis that at least 90% of the people in attendance will be against this proposal. Hopefully, Mr. Pelton will accurately report the percentage of people who are against this proposal in the Baltimore Sun. Just read the public comments on DNR's web site about this issue - 90% are against windfarms on public lands.

http://dnrweb.dnr.state.md.us/sustainability/...

And we also already have proof of the negative impact these industrial wind farms have on surrounding areas - specifically our rural neighbors to the north in Meyersdale, Pennsylvania who were duped into thinking that wind was a good thing. Check out the documentary about their struggles at the following links on YouTube and decide for yourself if wind is the answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Jimmy T

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#31
Jan 30, 2008
 
Klaus, I'm glad you brought the Danes into the discussion as we've got a lot to learn from them. In 2004 over 80%of the electricity generated by wind was exported to Norway. As you stated, they live off hydro and that is exactly what the wind replaced. Hydro.

Wind isn't available with any predictability. So a back up source has to be running at all times to fill in the gaps. If you use hydro for this there is no advantage to not simply using the more readily available and predictable energy source. If you use nuclear the same argument applies. If you use fossil to back up wind you are burning fuel whilst not generating electricity. Just like having a portable generator running with nothing plugged in. It just sits and waits for the wind to die down burning fuel needlessly because you can't simply flick a switch and super heat water to spin a steam turbine at a moments notice. The whole apparatus has to be up and running before it can be relied upon at a moments notice.

It has been predicted that Germany will have 48 GW of wind power installed by 2020 and this will equate to only 2 GW of fossil fuel potential. Just a bit over 4% of nameplate capacity. Pathetic and useless. A vast waste of land mass and money for the sake of profit for a few corporations.

If we're so concerned about our carbon output why can't we modify our behavior? How many Hummers are there on the road that actually ever go off road apart from being parked in the yard to be washed and waxed? How many lights are left on needlessly in businesses and homes when no one is around to see the light? I even see folks drive to the end of the driveways to collect their mail.
Jamie Rodeheaver

Cumberland, MD

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#32
Jan 30, 2008
 
There is an all around issue about wind turbines in general. It doesn't matter whether a person is for or against wind power or whether or not they are beneficial. This whole issue is about taking public land and using it privately. Why give just one company the privilege, why can't the public take on a lease and use the land for what ever the individual sees fit to do with it? The whole idea is rediculous. State land is public land and it should remain that way for all generations to come! NO TO WIND POWER ON STATE PROPERTY!!!
Linda Warren

Baltimore, MD

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#33
Jan 31, 2008
 
With energy costs soaring and consumers at the mercy of suppliers, it is time for alternative sources. It is absolutely critical for the state of Maryland to lead the effort and allow the use of state lands to do it.

Wind energy is clean, renewable and affordable. Ugly??
Anyone remember Three Mile Island??. Are nuclear silos less offensive or the dumps for radioactive wastes?

This is a chance to think about our future, our chance to help our kids breath clean air. These turbines are not ugly and would not be as visible as most people think

To NOT maximize the effort NOW with public awareness at it's peak is irresponsible. Think about future generations.
Jamie Rodeheaver

Cumberland, MD

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#34
Feb 1, 2008
 
Linda Warren wrote:
With energy costs soaring and consumers at the mercy of suppliers, it is time for alternative sources. It is absolutely critical for the state of Maryland to lead the effort and allow the use of state lands to do it.
Wind energy is clean, renewable and affordable. Ugly??
Anyone remember Three Mile Island??. Are nuclear silos less offensive or the dumps for radioactive wastes?
This is a chance to think about our future, our chance to help our kids breath clean air. These turbines are not ugly and would not be as visible as most people think
To NOT maximize the effort NOW with public awareness at it's peak is irresponsible. Think about future generations.
Have you taken a drive around Garret County. They can be seen everywhere from Mt. Storn to Meyersdale!
Nancy LaPlaca

Englewood, CO

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#35
Feb 3, 2008
 
Go wind! AWEA says there was 5,244 MW of new wind installed in the U.S. last year...
Jim Webb

Baltimore, MD

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#36
Feb 28, 2008
 
While it is true, that presently only about 1 per cent of U.S. energy comes from renewable sources. If we applied the $400 billion that has been spent on the Iraq war toward installing wind turbines on non-farmable lands across the United States, we could power the U. S. and become nearly independent of coal and imported oil.
"Every day that the unharvested wind blows across mountain ridges that have viable wind farm sites is a day that mega megawatts of clean renewable energy is wasted." Yet people vow that we must "conserve energy." Please define "conserve energy" for me.
Several Self Appointed Protectors
(S.A.P.s) and other pseudo scientists scream about a minuscule few birds and bats that are killed by wind turbines. They never seem to acknowledge the uncountable hundreds of thousands that die each year from pollutions, mainly from coal fired power plants.
While in actuality owning nothing, they declare ownership of "their view sheds" everywhere they may happen to cast their gaze.
A recent report from a panel of scientists and public health officials has found that coal fired power plants were "the single greatest challenge" to effectively fighting global warming.
If by chance you have watched the documentary "6 degrees could change the world" and it didn't scare some commom sense into you, I fear for the future of this country for our children and grandchildren.
It is beyond belief that a few misguided and misinformed individuals are still trying to stop wind farms from being built. One question that I would like to ask them: Where would you prefer to live? In close proximity to a wind farm or the pollution belching smoke stack of a coal fired power plant. I rest my case.
Dan

Bowie, MD

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#37
Mar 12, 2008
 
The following is the first part of an op-ed I wrote for Aug. 24, 2007 issue of The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, PA:

Smokestacks will persist, despite wind turbines

Proponents of industrial wind energy facilities often argue that the electricity they generate will improve the air quality -- thereby alleviating human health impacts associated with air pollution. The air quality benefits of wind energy are often heralded by developers and boosters, but such claims are supported by wishful thinking and not reality.

These false notions indicate a lack of understanding of the programs and success of the Clean Air Act -- perhaps the toughest and most effective environmental law enacted by Congress. It also reveals a lack of appreciation as to how little electricity is generated by wind farms during the summer months, when the demand for electricity is greatest and when "code red" air pollution alerts mainly occur.

The alerts are due to ozone, formed on hot days mainly from nitrous oxides (NOx)-- pollutants which are emitted by power plants but spewed more abundantly from automobile exhaust. Under the Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Agency has long maintained a cap-and-trade program to put a ceiling on and regulate power plant emissions of NOx, as well as another major pollutant responsible for "acid rain" -- sulfur dioxide (SO2). EPA determines how many pounds of NOx and SO2 can be emitted annually by power plants in our region (i.e., the "cap"), and then divides up the total quantity allowed for each into "pollution credits." EPA then apportions these credits amongst the power plants -- allowing owners to buy or sell the "credits" via an established market system (i.e., the "trade") in which their value is set by demand and supply.
EPA's cap-and-trade strategy uses market forces to limit and curtail air pollution emissions of power plants, and it has been amazingly effective. A report by the U.S. Public Interest Research Group documented that power plants operating within Pennsylvania reduced their emissions of NOx by 26 percent between 1995 and 2003, and they also had an 8 percent decrease in SO2 emissions during the same period. The cap-and-trade program of EPA created economic incentives for power plant owners to operate their facilities at higher efficiencies (getting more BTUs per unit of fuel) and to burn cleaner fuels (e.g., natural gas vs. coal).

for rest of piece - see: http://www.windaction.org/opinions/11517
our kids future

Lodi, CA

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#38
Apr 3, 2010
 
To: Dan B and Anyone Else That Thinks They Know Everything
First all these people that think they know what they are talking about why have you have not fixed our energy problems. Most just like to read what they think is right, wind energy is not a fix all but it will help offset some of the energy problems. And no you will not see 26,200 wind turbinesí in Maryland wind energy will never take over nuclear power. And I would bet Dan B. has some connection with nuclear power. With big energy you still need big power; wind cannot do it by itself, with coal and nuclear power working together by making cleaner coal burners and safer nuclear power. And the people that are complaining are the ones that are close to wind farms, and are not getting any money, the ones for it, that are near wind farms are getting paid very well, and if it was reversed you would have the same issues.
And you said people need to take time to learn before that talk about something they have no clue, you can see all you have done was research on the computer, and you donít have firsthand knowledge unless you work on the nuclear power side. But this is the problem with people like you that tell people what they should do when you don't practice what you preach.
More birds and bats are killed by human activity than they ever will be by wind turbines, close to 75 million are killed by car windshields each year, Dan B. since you know it all fix that. There have been thousands of these wind turbines put up all over the country in the last couple of years, if the bats and birds have been killed like you say, you would have heard from all the tree huggers and seen pictures of the dead birds and bats if this was the case. And you have no idea what studies they do for years before wind turbines are put in the spots that they are, they do set back, bird and bat migration studies, and many others.
If you think you know it all then do something about fixing the energy problems. If a company was going to offer you say $10,000 a year for say 20 years to put a wind turbine on your property and this is for each wind turbine would you do it, if you say no, you have just proven my point.
When wind energy and all the other energy sourceís coming together and by making them safer will help our energy problems; we need to do this for our kids, kids this has been the problem throughout history, we forget about what is going to happen to our future from the decisions we make today. And how its effects will have on our kids and how it will affect their lives and their kidís lives for what we decide for them today.
Everything in life has its problems; wind energy, coal, battery and nuclear power all have their unique problems and we will never make everyone happy all we can do is keep making each one of the energy sources safer and better, when we can somehow balance them all together then and only then we can say we are making the future better for our kids.
our kids future

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#39
Apr 3, 2010
 
ruralminority wrote:
reason - if wind is not the solution why should we let the Governor force these things down our throat right now? And I will agree that Garrett County doesn't have a thriving economy like other counties in the state may have - the only thing going in Garrett County's favor right now is tourism - if these windmills go up tourism will surely go down - if tourism goes down the economy of Garrett County will suffer greatly. People visit Garrett County for it's scenic mountain vistas - destroy the scenic vistas and you'll destroy Garrett County's economy. It won't suprise me in the least at DNR's public hearings tonight in Garrett County and Thursday in Annapolis that at least 90% of the people in attendance will be against this proposal. Hopefully, Mr. Pelton will accurately report the percentage of people who are against this proposal in the Baltimore Sun. Just read the public comments on DNR's web site about this issue - 90% are against windfarms on public lands.
http://dnrweb.dnr.state.md.us/sustainability/...
And we also already have proof of the negative impact these industrial wind farms have on surrounding areas - specifically our rural neighbors to the north in Meyersdale, Pennsylvania who were duped into thinking that wind was a good thing. Check out the documentary about their struggles at the following links on YouTube and decide for yourself if wind is the answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
You are an idiot

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. More humorous synonyms of the term include addlehead, blockhead, bonehead, deadhead, dimwit, dodo, dope, dummy, dunderhead, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, numbskull, stupidhead, thickhead, and twit, among many others. Archaically the word mome has also been used. The synonymous terms moron, imbecile, and cretin have all gained specialized meanings in modern times. An idiot is said to be idiotic, and to suffer from idiocy. A dunce is an idiot who is specifically incapable of learning. An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise) and an ignoramus (who is uneducated), neither of which refer to someone with low intelligence.

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